Muddy Water Advantage

[Pat Brown]

I'm beginning to see some of the clearest water I've ever seen in my bodies of water that I fish here in central NC as winter settles in and surface temperatures fall rapidly with waning daylight hours and falling night time lows.

 

This has got me wondering and theorizing somewhat on the topic of 'cold muddy water'

 

It's often seen as the kiss of death to bass fisherman.  Impossible to get bites out of lethargic fish that can't see well etc etc etc

 

We have all heard it.

 

But this got me thinking about the paradox: muddy water warms the fastest.  Hmmmm

 

Bass love warmth during cold times.

 

So I'm starting to form guesses about this and maybe some of you can offer experience or theories of your own to contribute:

 

There are TIMES when muddy water is your friend when the water is 'cold'

 

I'm betting if you have a stable warming trend for ~3 days with minimal wind and perhaps some rain that's ~10° warmer than the surface temps around the lake, it might get bait fish moving into the backs of creeks especially if the sun is hitting them for prolonged periods towards the end of the day....

 

Another time I could see cold muddy water being extremely beneficial is when targeting extremely large pre-spawn females.  I would THINK the muddy water would make them easier to trick AND they're still going to be gorging fairly non discriminately at this time of year right?

 

Wouldn't you want to find that cold muddy water then?

 

Should be a fun primer/discussion.

[JohnFromLisbon]

The only time I actually like having some muddy water is during the early pre-spawn for that exact reason, especially if the weather is improving. I remember fishing a chatterbait about 6 to 8ft from the bank and getting my first truly vicious strikes of the season instead of just those typical mushy winter bites. 

[galyonj]

I think dirty water takes a lot of guesswork regarding fish positioning out of my thinking.

 

The worse the visibility, the closer to cover the fish seem to want to stay.

 

ETA: And, to @JohnFromLisbon's point, I think dirty water gives them less time to inspect the lure and think about it. Hits on a swim jig in dirty water feel like they're trying to yank the rod out of your hands.

[thediscochef]

I have planned testing this philosophy heavily this winter. Doing the opposite was a big bust last winter as you all know. I'm sure I'll still use a 110 somewhere but this year I'm probably throwing A-frames and topwater up into the shallows on the kinds of days you describe. Very "think like a fish" logic.

Good post/thread starter, +1

[galyonj]

I just remembered:

 

It also minimizes the colors I second-guess myself tying on. The colors I throw get increasingly limited toward the extremes of the color spectrum as visibility drops. You want to cut a nice silhouette in chocolate milk.

[thediscochef]

did somebody say weightless flukes? this seems like a good time to bring up weightless flukes

[galyonj]

There is never a bad time to bring up weightless flukes.

[Swamp Girl]

I want to contribute something, but I have zero experience with muddy water. I can frequently see the bottom if it's seven feet or less deep and when I fished Lake Superior, I could see even deeper. I can only add that everything Pat said makes sense and I hope that before I die, I feel the unfettered fury of a muddy water strike. 

[galyonj]

@ol'crickety if I could see that far down I'd go into vapor lock.

 

My PB largemouth came on a jerkbait (a 6th sense provoke, for anybody wondering), and the water was clear enough I could see her follow, think about it, then come back for it. I about lost my mind. It was so cool.

[WRB]

Muddy water needs to be defined as we bass anglers can’t agree on anything regarding water clarity.

Muddy water to me is brown water with excessive dirt particulates vs strained water being stained like tea, no suspended particulates. 

If you are looking for slightly warmer water use a thermometer not water color.

Whenever I fished muddy water it was due to rain runoff or wave action eroding soil with silt and always looked for clearer water transitions. Wind blown mud line are usually clearer underneath whereas rain silted water is more homogeneous.

keep in mind spring water is clear and 50-60 degrees year around, ie warmer winter water.

Tom

[LrgmouthShad]

I do not like muddy water when the water is very cold. I also don’t really like water that is normally clearer when it immediately muddies a lot. Other than that I’m cool with muddy water

[thediscochef]

I enjoy clear water but there's not a ton of it close to home. Best I usually get is stained with visibility to 6-8ft max. I hardly ever see a bass before it's got a hook in it

[Team9nine]

1 hour ago, Pat Brown said:

I'm betting if you have a stable warming trend for ~3 days with minimal wind and perhaps some rain that's ~10° warmer than the surface temps around the lake,

If you have a good warm rain, 10 deg plus above base temp, are you really talking COLD muddy water anymore? Surface temps anywhere in the 40s, I’ll take clear water and stability every time for numbers of fish. Not saying you won’t/can’t catch a good fish or two in truly cold and muddy though. A lot of variables, including understanding what deviation from base is for a specific water body, but I’ve always fared better in clear(er) water during the coldest times of the year.

[TnRiver46]

21 minutes ago, Team9nine said:

If you have a good warm rain, 10 deg plus above base temp, are you really talking COLD muddy water anymore? Surface temps anywhere in the 40s, I’ll take clear water and stability every time for numbers of fish. Not saying you won’t/can’t catch a good fish or two in truly cold and muddy though. A lot of variables, including understanding what deviation from base is for a specific water body, but I’ve always fared better in clear(er) water during the coldest times of the year.

That’s what I was thinking, if it’s 10 degrees warmer it ain’t cold 

 

I avoid muddy water if possible 

[Pat Brown]

Okay so to be fair, I think in NC we have a LOT of warm fronts and harshe cold fronts.

 

Last year we had our lakes and ponds freeze hard for 2 weeks in the middle of winter!!!!  I have never seen that happen in my whole life living here.

 

It was followed by a 50° rainy warm front that basically moved fish up shallow to spawn in January.  Surface temps stabilized after the thaw and after the warm fronts, fishing slowed down for a while, but there was a period where you could tell they were being 'affected' by the front.

 

I will say, I think you're probably more likely to see results on a body of water without much relative depth at all to begin with.  The whole water column gets affected by these fronts a whole lot more.

 

Another thing I have been thinking about is the fact that even though your lure seems to disappear sometimes when it enters the water, there can often be much clearer water beneath that cloudy haze floating near the top.

 

In instances where the water is mostly gin clear and you get muddy heavy flow with a front, that muddy water is still going to be relatively much cleaner than muddy water on a river system lake.

 

I think when the water gets too clear, fish get very weary of predators also.  I think bigger fish in shallower bodies of water may seek out the stain/mudline if only for the cover it provides at these times when water clarity is exceptionally clear AND there is no shoreline vegetation alive for them to relate to.

 

Still lots of great perspectives and pieces of wisdom and experience being shared here.

 

I do think that it's important to define muddy water as it relates to the mean clarity AND warm as it relates to general seasonal bottom temps for YOUR body of water regardless!

[thediscochef]

13 minutes ago, Pat Brown said:

Okay so to be fair, I think in NC we have a LOT of warm fronts and harshe cold fronts.

 

Last year we had our lakes and ponds freeze hard for 2 weeks in the middle of winter!!!!  I have never seen that happen in my whole life living here.

 

It was followed by a 50° rainy warm front that basically moved fish up shallow to spawn in January.  Surface temps stabilized after the thaw and after the warm fronts, fishing slowed down for a while, but there was a period where you could tell they were being 'affected' by the front.

 

I will say, I think you're probably more likely to see results on a body of water without much relative depth at all to begin with.  The whole water column gets affected by these fronts a whole lot more.

 

Another thing I have been thinking about is the fact that even though your lure seems to disappear sometimes when it enters the water, there can often be much clearer water beneath that cloudy haze floating near the top.

 

In instances where the water is mostly gin clear and you get muddy heavy flow with a front, that muddy water is still going to be relatively much cleaner than muddy water on a river system lake.

 

I think when the water gets too clear, fish get very weary of predators also.  I think bigger fish in shallower bodies of water may seek out the stain/mudline if only for the cover it provides at these times when water clarity is exceptionally clear.

 

Still lots of great perspectives and pieces of wisdom and experience being shared here.

 

I do think that it's important to define muddy water as it relates to the mean clarity AND warm as it relates to general seasonal bottom temps for YOUR body of water regardless!

I'm picking up what you're putting down here 100%, we have very similar patterns in DFW

[TnRiver46]

Our waters are 100% river system 

[Catt]

Questions 😉

 

Why is the water muddy?

 

Is it naturally off colored/muddy?

Is it off colored/muddy because of runoff?

 

Both conditions fish differently 

[TnRiver46]

What really sucks is when the water is nice and green and like 48 degrees. Then it pours rain for a few days with air temps around 37, turning the water brown and dropping the temp 10 degrees instead of raising it 

 

I’ll still go fishing but they ain’t gonna bite 

[Pat Brown]

3 minutes ago, TnRiver46 said:

What really sucks is when the water is nice and green and like 48 degrees. Then it pours rain for a few days with air temps around 37, turning the water brown and dropping the temp 10 degrees instead of raising it 

 

I’ll still go fishing but they ain’t gonna bite 

See THAT is what I'm talking about.  That makes sense a lot to me.  I would think during a *cooling* trend, muddy water would be very very bad and probably a huge waste of time to fish. Especially if we are already in our mean winter low period.

 

@Catt let's say for arguments sake, mostly runoff in generally stained->clearish lake.  Clarity fluctuates on my home lakes and ponds like you wouldn't believe.

 

There are weeks I can see 10 feet down.  Weeks I can't see the bottom 3 inches down next to the bank.

 

I seem to catch fish out of these bodies of water regardless of clarity but I have been affected by the idea that we should avoid dirtier water when it's cold and I think maybe...just maybe....that's put me OFF the juice during 'cold' times of year.  😉😉😉

[thediscochef]

8 minutes ago, Pat Brown said:

See THAT is what I'm talking about.  That makes sense a lot to me.  I would think during a *cooling* trend, muddy water would be very very bad and probably a huge waste of time to fish. Especially if we are already in our mean winter low period.

 

@Catt let's say for arguments sake, mostly runoff in generally stained->clearish lake.  Clarity fluctuates on my home lakes and ponds like you wouldn't believe.

 

There are weeks I can see 10 feet down.  Weeks I can't see the bottom 3 inches down next to the bank.

 

I seem to catch fish out of these bodies of water regardless of clarity but I have been affected by the idea that we should avoid dirtier water when it's cold and I think maybe...just maybe....that's put me OFF the juice during 'cold' times of year.  😉😉😉

I get the feeling that level of clarity fluctuation is very believable for Mr Catt. Mostly because it's believable to me, because I've seen it. And if I've seen it, he's probably seen it 10x more 

[Darth-Baiter]

Timely. I’m headed to my secret lake this Friday.  It’s usually crystal clear.  I haven’t been since June.  I am hoping it is clear and deep.  I just love seeing the action of my baits real-time.  I learn so much. 

[Mobasser]

I haven't done as well in muddy water. Most guys say a bigger bait, more noise, thump from a big spinnerbait etc. I've tried these things, with not much luck. I'm too used to fishing clear water, and, that's my thing.                       

[Susky River Rat]

I fish chocolate milk looking water from rain run off in the river. I really do not fish any different than I do normally and have had much success. We as anglers complicate these conditions not the fish.  

[thediscochef]

16 minutes ago, Mobasser said:

I haven't done as well in muddy water. Most guys say a bigger bait, more noise, thump from a big spinnerbait etc. I've tried these things, with not much luck. I'm too used to fishing clear water, and, that's my thing.                       

I'm ususally picking just one of those characteristics to enhance at a time in muddy water - if I'm adding flash I don't upsize, if I'm adding size I don't add noise etc. One thing at a time imo