Work issue--don't really know how to proceed....

[DitchPanda]

So I recently received some info about a Co-worker that I don't really know how to handle. The short version is we hired this guy about 6-8 months ago and while he has been friendly he is also kinda weird and also doesn't really share anything about his personal life ( you'll find out why in a minute). In my experience its very common in the getting to know you stage at work to exchange basic personal info---age, significant others, kids, family, location etc. All I know of this guy from him is where he is living.

Now that in itself isn't a big deal just kinda caught me off guard considering he's actually talkative and outgoing. So anyway he's in his 30s and claims he's from the area but nobody knows him, and I work with 15 or so guys between 25-55 so that also seems a little strange. A buddy at work fired up the old Google search to see info on this guy, Facebook page, LinkedIn profile anything...and what we found was disgusting. Won't get into all the detail but lets just say 10ish years ago he attacked a young woman and he ended up doing 8 years in prison for rape and assault. Obviously my reaction to this news was I'm sure the same reaction many of you would have-- anger, disgust even betrayal by my management team.

My real struggle with this is how to proceed at work. This guy being new comes to me for advice and help in the plant very often and now I don't think I could look him in the eye. A part of me wants to sit down in a conference room with my managers, pull the info up on my phone, slide it over to them and basically say " is this really the caliber of people we are hiring these days? You guys ought to be ashamed of yourselves exposing us to a piece of s$%& like this". 

I just can't come to terms with it, people say everyone deserves a second chance but if you rape someone or put your hand on a woman or child in a sexual or violent way you don't deserve anything, besides a lengthy prison term and a life of struggle. Also I can't figure out why you would do a background check on someone if your going to ignore something this awful.

Sorry for the long winded rant, but I had to get that off my chest. Also I was looking to see if anybody had advice of how they would handle it, or if maybe you've been  in a similar situation at work and what you did.

[A-Jay]

On 11/5/2023 at 7:39 AM, DitchPanda said:

I was looking to see if anybody had advice of how they would handle it, 

How to Handle it ?

There's nothing to handle.

The man's a co-worker, not a new puppy. 

Just do your job.

A man's personal life is his (at least it used to be)

and what he choses to share or not, has nothing to do with his performance at work.

Just because you "think you know something" is irrelevant.

What matters is his performance at work, NOW. 

I say, conduct yourself in a manner that you will be proud of 20 years from now.

The rest of this will take care of itself.

One way or the other.

That's my advice.

A-Jay

 

[Tennessee Boy]

Assuming he didn’t lie when applying for the job and assuming he’s not in a job that his past clearly disqualifies him for (like working with/around young girls), I agree with @A-Jay .  If society is going to release people from prison we have to allow them to turn their lives around and make a living.

[12poundbass]

I agree with @A-Jay on this one.
 

You would’ve been none the wiser if coworkers hadn’t started looking him up and it sounds like the only reason coworkers looked him up was because he was quiet and didn’t meet the status quo of the rest of you. Sounds like your work has cliques.

 

My advice to him would be to get out. The cat is out of the bag and the cliques will make his life miserable. 

[AlabamaSpothunter]

Some crimes are unforgiveable in my book, the only problem I have is that our justice system is very far from perfect, and innocent outliers exist.   

 

Personally speaking I'm not working with a rapist, murderer, or pedophile.   I don't blame you for not wanting to work around a person who raped a young woman.  I personally don't think you can "serve your time" with some crimes and our current clown world justice system.  

 

Tough spot legally speaking though I'm sure.   

[DitchPanda]

1 hour ago, A-Jay said:

How to Handle it ?

There's nothing to handle.

The man's a co-worker, not a new puppy. 

Just do your job.

A man's personal life is his (at least it used to be)

and what he choses to share or not, has nothing to do with his performance at work.

Just because you "think" you know something" is irrelevant.

What matters is his performance at work, NOW. 

I say, conduct yourself in a manner that you will be proud of 20 years from now.

The rest of this will take care of itself.

One way or the other.

That's my advice.

A-Jay

 

This is solid advice, just going to be hard to follow it from a moral stand point. I always appreciate your insight into things. Do want to make one point though, I don't "Think I know this", its a matter of public record, he was convicted and he admitted to the crime. That said I don't want to act in a manner that will reflect poorly on me or compromise my job or where I stand with my managers, so your correct I just need to move past this and carry on business as usual.

 

23 minutes ago, 12poundbass said:

I agree with @A-Jay on this one.
 

You would’ve been none the wiser if coworkers hadn’t started looking him up and it sounds like the only reason coworkers looked him up was because he was quiet and didn’t meet the status quo of the rest of you. Sounds like your work has cliques.

 

My advice to him would be to get out. The cat is out of the bag and the cliques will make his life miserable. 

 We live in a very rural area so if someone says they've lived here their entire life and nobody knows them, I think its natural to be curious. All that said I respect your point of view on this, but will say if excluding someone for being a violent rapist makes me part of a clique so be it.

 

26 minutes ago, AlabamaSpothunter said:

Some crimes are unforgiveable in my book, the only problem I have is that our justice system is very far from perfect, and innocent outliers exist.   

 

Personally speaking I'm not working with a rapist, murderer, or pedophile.   I don't blame you for not wanting to work around a person who raped a young woman.  I personally don't think you can "serve your time" with some crimes and our current clown world justice system.  

 

Tough spot legally speaking though I'm sure.   

This mirrors my thoughts honestly

[Dwight Hottle]

I don't always agree with @A-Jay but his advice on this subject is correct. You are not the judge & jury on the man's past nor do you know his side of the story. 

[12poundbass]

31 minutes ago, DitchPanda said:

We live in a very rural area so if someone says they've lived here their entire life and nobody knows them, I think its natural to be curious. All that said I respect your point of view on this, but will say if excluding someone for being a violent rapist makes me part of a clique so be it

Let me be clear, I don’t condone what this person has done.
 

I also live and have lived in a rural community (700 people) and I didn’t know everyone. The vetting process is supposed to be done by HR not the laborers. This person was suspicious by you and your coworkers and someone took it upon themselves to look this person up and snoop. That in my mind is a clique. I’ll say it again, had someone not took it upon themselves to look this person up only because they were different none of you would’ve been the wiser. Yes his record is public record for anyone to see which I’d guess HR had already done.
 

Let me ask you this, are your coworkers going to do their own vetting of every new coworker that is hired? I have nothing to had so if a coworker looked me up that’s fine, but I wouldn’t trust them and wouldn’t look at them the same. 

[DitchPanda]

13 minutes ago, Dwight Hottle said:

I don't always agree with @A-Jay but his advice on this subject is correct. You are not the judge & jury on the man's past nor do you know his side of the story. 

Again I do know his side of the story...its on public record. The victim made a lengthy statement detailing the attack, he said she was correct and admitted to the crime.

 

11 minutes ago, 12poundbass said:

Let me be clear, I don’t condone what this person has done.
 

I also live and have lived in a rural community (700 people) and I didn’t know everyone. The vetting process is supposed to be done by HR not the laborers. This person was suspicious by you and your coworkers and someone took it upon themselves to look this person up and snoop. That in my mind is a clique. I’ll say it again, had someone not took it upon themselves to look this person up only because they were different none of you would’ve been the wiser. Yes his record is public record for anyone to see which I’d guess HR had already done.
 

Let me ask you this, are your coworkers going to do their own vetting of every new coworker that is hired? I have nothing to had so if a coworker looked me up that’s fine, but I wouldn’t trust them and wouldn’t look at them the same. 

I understand your perspective 100% but just don't agree with it. Yes somebody had to look him up, or we would be none the wiser... Why does that matter? If you don't want people knowing you've done terrible things in your past don't do terrible things. I guess wanting to know things about who you are around just doesn't seem odd to me. Its not like we tailed this guy or hired a private investigator to see if he cheats on his girlfriend or lied on his taxes. There is a reason why these things are public record, kinda like there is a reason you are notified if a sex offender lives in your neighborhood. Maybe I'm just more suspicious of people than others.

Also maybe its just my personal feeling of not wanting to work for a Company that hires people like that, given the job setting. I don't believe he should starve to death because he can't find a job, but maybe don't hire him for a position where he works nights in a small office type setting with only a few people some of which are female.

[AlabamaSpothunter]

There's a good reason why companies won't hire convicted sex offenders, and that's because the rate of recidivism is ridiculously high, and if said offender victimizes another employee/customer you can pretty much count on being sued into oblivion and bankruptcy.

 

I'd really question the mngt. at your company, especially if they have females working around this individual.     

 

 

[12poundbass]

6 minutes ago, DitchPanda said:

Again I do know his side of the story...its on public record. The victim made a lengthy statement detailing the attack, he said she was correct and admitted to the crime.

 

I understand your perspective 100% but just don't agree with it. Yes somebody had to look him up, or we would be none the wiser... Why does that matter? If you don't want people knowing you've done terrible things in your past don't do terrible things. I guess wanting to know things about who you are around just doesn't seem odd to me. Its not like we tailed this guy or hired a private investigator to see if he cheats on his girlfriend or lied on his taxes. There is a reason why these things are public record, kinda like there is a reason you are notified if a sex offender lives in your neighborhood. Maybe I'm just more suspicious of people than others.

Also maybe its just my personal feeling of not wanting to work for a Company that hires people like that, given the job setting. I don't believe he should starve to death because he can't find a job, but maybe don't hire him for a position where he works nights in a small office type setting with only a few people some of which are female.

All valid points. The problem I have is someone took it upon themselves to look this person up because they were quiet and different. Again, is someone in your work place going to vet every new coworker going forward as if they’re the HR department? If so that’s fine and there’s nothing illegal about it. I just wouldn’t want to work around those type of people. Just my opinion.

[Kirtley Howe]

I despise anyone who hurts a woman or child, or any other person who cannot defend themselves. That said, do you really know ALL the details? For instance, was the offender a drug user at the time of the attack? Drugs can alter the behavior of any person who takes them. If he was a drug user then, is he clean now? It is possible he has cleaned up his life, and is now straight, and is no longer a threat to others. That does not excuse his previous acts, and he has to live with what he did for the rest of his life, but if he indeed has changed, does he not deserve the chance to lead a normal life now? Judging someone else for a previous act is a slippery slope. You do not have to like, or even approve of this person, but you should act professionally at work....do your job, answer his questions, and teach him how to do the job. You do not have to socialize with him if you don't want to. 

[Mobasser]

I'll have to agree with A-Jay here. What the man did is wrong, cut and dried. But, this doesn't have to affect his job, or his ability to do a good job. Ditch Panda, do the best you can with him. Try to view it from a work basis, not a personal one.

[DitchPanda]

15 minutes ago, 12poundbass said:

All valid points. The problem I have is someone took it upon themselves to look this person up because they were quiet and different. Again, is someone in your work place going to vet every new coworker going forward as if they’re the HR department? If so that’s fine and there’s nothing illegal about it. I just wouldn’t want to work around those type of people. Just my opinion.

I don't disagree with you on this and also think this is its own separate issue. I don't now nor have I ever snooped on someone, this information was placed in front of me. Kinda like you eluded to I don't care if someone Google's me, I've got nothing to hide- but I don't go out of my way to research people. As far as them vetting everybody going forward...likely because that's the type of person this individual is. Especially now they found this id expect the snooping to continue.

 

16 minutes ago, Kirtley Howe said:

I despise anyone who hurts a woman or child, or any other person who cannot defend themselves. That said, do you really know ALL the details? For instance, was the offender a drug user at the time of the attack? Drugs can alter the behavior of any person who takes them. If he was a drug user then, is he clean now? It is possible he has cleaned up his life, and is now straight, and is no longer a threat to others. That does not excuse his previous acts, and he has to live with what he did for the rest of his life, but if he indeed has changed, does he not deserve the chance to lead a normal life now? Judging someone else for a previous act is a slippery slope. You do not have to like, or even approve of this person, but you should act professionally at work....do your job, answer his questions, and teach him how to do the job. You do not have to socialize with him if you don't want to.

Do I really know ALL the details, of course not I wasn't there. All I know is whay he was accused of, admitted to and was charged for. Was he on drugs at the time? No clue. Is he clean now? Yes...we get drug tested at work often...and he never seems "drugged up" when I'm around him. Does he deserve to live a normal life? That's for you to decide based on your own morals and beliefs I guess. Some things are inexcusable and unacceptable to me...this is one of those things, especially pertaining to the work place dynamic we have.

Judging others is a slippery slope agreed, but we all do it to a certain degree in every aspect of our lives. We all choose friends, employees and relationships with significant others based off of info we receive, and of course someones past is considered. If it wasn't than companies would not do background checks looking for things like this. But lets apply that logic and say a company passes on a candidate based off of a past discretion... Who the hell is that hiring manager to snub them based off of said discretion? Ill tell you who they are, A person trying to protect their employees and business from someone with a history of violent behavior.

[Will Ketchum]

"Won't get into all the detail but lets just say 10ish years ago he attacked a young woman and he ended up doing 8 years in prison for rape and assault."

 

Not having all the details makes it hard to come to a fair conclusion about the guy. Some of those types of cases are a "he said / she said" case and he came out on the short end. I would just keep my mouth shut and give the guy a chance.

[12poundbass]

There’s a show on A&E called Accused: Guilty or Innocent. It’s pretty eye opening. There have been people on there accused of a crime that based on the little bit of evidence they show I was leaning towards innocent. Some were looking at decades in prison. They’re offered a plea deal of a lesser charge and obviously less time incarcerated. Some roll the dice and turn down the plea deal and are found innocent. Some take the plea deal and the lesser of two evils. Naturally I play the what if game. I’m not a gambler. I know I didn’t do what I’m accused of but 20, 30, 40 years in prison is a scary possibility. The DA dangles a deal of say 5-10 years. What do you do? Now most of us would say “I’d never put myself in a situation where I could be accused of a crime” but you never know especially when it comes to crimes against a female. 
 

I’m not saying this is the case and justice has been served right, wrong, or indifferent. 
 

 

[DitchPanda]

1 hour ago, Will Ketchum said:

"Won't get into all the detail but lets just say 10ish years ago he attacked a young woman and he ended up doing 8 years in prison for rape and assault."

 

Not having all the details makes it hard to come to a fair conclusion about the guy. Some of those types of cases are a "he said / she said" case and he came out on the short end. I would just keep my mouth shut and give the guy a chance.

So now we are saying he may not be guilty he just admitted to aggravated assault and rape just because. Seems logical, if I was accused of a heinous crime I know I didn't commit I'd probably confess to it to. Saying you won't get into all the details is not the same as saying you don't have them. Also I said above of course I don't have every detail because I wasn't there. So the legal system should have no recourse ever unless a police officer and judge were involved in the incident so we know we have every detail... Even insignificant ones.

I apologize if I come across as pissy but I'm just confused by some of these responses. Several responses have said you can't really judge because you don't know all the details. I've read the description of the incident by the victim and I read where he didn't argue her account, admitting that's what happened and that he was guilty. Then people read that and say well you dont know what "really happened". Ok.

[12poundbass]

40 minutes ago, DitchPanda said:

Seems logical, if I was accused of a heinous crime I know I didn't commit I'd probably confess to it to

If you were accused of a crime you didn’t commit and were looking at say 40 years in prison and the DA has built this case against you that doesn’t look too good for you and your freedom then the offer you a plea deal to a lesser crime and a quarter of the time what would you do? I don’t know what I’d do. Both are scary as hell! You take the plea you have to say you’re guilty. Things like this happen everyday in our justice system. I’m not saying this is the case and it doesn’t sound like anyone else is saying that’s the case either. 
 

You came here asking for opinions and you got them. Some of them align with yours and plenty don’t. At the end of the day nobody knows what really happened. 

[volzfan59]

@A-Jay is 100% correct on this. While the alleged crime is heinous, I say it like that because I haven't seen the "evidence". Assuming it is correct, he's paid his debt to society, possibly still paying, i.e parole. Let he among us that hasn't sinned cast the first stone. That's coming from a retired law enforcement professional.

 

[DitchPanda]

You guys are right and I apologize for not being more receptive to the differing opinions. Being this close to it has just made it tough for me to be logical and not get overly emotional. The correct path forward is be professional and do my best to not drag my personal feelings into it.

[AlabamaSpothunter]

18 minutes ago, DitchPanda said:

You guys are right and I apologize for not being more receptive to the differing opinions. Being this close to it has just made it tough for me to be logical and not get overly emotional. The correct path forward is be professional and do my best to not drag my personal feelings into it.

I suspect the opinions would be different if folks had wives, sisters, mothers, gfs, etc. in your situation.     

 

It's easy to be enlightened from a 10,000ft view, don't beat yourself up.......society should never accept rapists.  

[padlin]

I may have missed it but I don’t see your coworkers side of the story, it usually matters.

Has anyone talked to his hiring mgr, it’s possible they did their due diligence and hired him knowing the whole story.

[Tennessee Boy]

Many years ago I worked with a guy that was liked by everyone.  He would do anything for anyone at work or away from work.  I was shocked when someone whispered to me one day that he had severely beaten his ex wife years before.   Some time passed and I noticed one day that I hadn’t seen him in a while.  I asked someone if he had left.   They whispered to me that he had beat up his girlfriend and he was in jail.   A few months later he was back at work and doing a great job again.   About a year later, it was announced that he had beat up another girlfriend and there was a warrant for his arrest.  A couple of days later we found out that he had gone out into the woods and killed himself.  
 

Everyone has their demons.  Some demons are worse than others.  Some people should be locked away because of their demons.  It’s not always easy but I try not judge unless I’m serving on a jury.

[cheezyridr]

32 minutes ago, AlabamaSpothunter said:

I suspect the opinions would be different if folks had wives, sisters, mothers, gfs, etc. in your situation.     

 

It's easy to be enlightened from a 10,000ft view, don't beat yourself up.......society should never accept rapists.  

 

i will tell you a story.  my first job was in a store that was family owned.  i was there for about a year when the boss tells us his son (that no one ever mentioned before that day) will begin working there the following week.  one of the other employees tells me that the guy was in a mental hospital.  his father put him there for 5 years, so he could avoid going to jail for raping his 12 yr old niece. when he came to the store he was 22, so i guess when he did it, he was 16 or 17. well, he was there about a year or so, he was dating a girl from another state - who was 16. an israeli girl who worked summers in the store roughed him up for touching her in the warehouse, i actually saw that whole scene, it was hilarious.  apparently, she was really good at martial arts.  about 5 years later, i was married and had a child with a girl who worked for a company that cleaned houses.  he happened to be one of their clients. she had been there, but always with another employee.  the one time she was sent alone, he was there, he tried something on her.  her boss didn't want to do anything about it.  she came home, naturally, very upset.  so i went to his house, picked the lock on the front door while he was in the shower.  i stabbed him in the stomach with a boot knife he had on the coffee table.   after that, i left outta there.  the cops picked me up later that night.  i told them i did it, i told them why.  then i told them what i knew about him.  the cop who interviewed me left to go check out my story.  when he came back, he told me that he would talk to the guy, and see if he wanted to drop the charges against me, in exchange, i would not mess with him again, and my wife wouldn't press charges for attempted rape.  he agreed, and the cops drove me home. he was still on probation, and the threat was, if he was found to have violated his probation  with a sex crime, he would do the time he avoided before, plus whatever they gave him for the latest.  that was all the way back in 1987.  during the pandemic, i was shopping at a home improvement store. as i walked down the aisle, there he was, stocking the shelves.  we recognized each other immediately.  i didn't engage him, i just did my shopping, and left.  sex offenders...apparently they do re offend, cause he did, and almost right away, too, as i related above. but it ain't my job to warn his employers who and what he is.  he ain't bothered me, so i haven't bothered him. 

[813basstard]

I’d leave him off the ‘come to the house and have a beer’ list….