World Class Bass Fisheries in Jeopardy

[WRB]

Both lakes Casitas and Castiac once considered world record bass potential producing lakes are in trouble.

Lake Casitas during the 2023 season can’t produce more the 2 bass caught by any one team this year with winning tournament weights under 3 lbs. no more then 3 teams have caught more then 1 Bass this year.

Lake Castiac is similar, except showing some improvement in the fall with a few limits of 5 bass weighing under 8 lbs. 

What happened??? No one knows for sure?

Tom

 

 

[TnRiver46]

The answer there is almost always going to be habitat, which can be altered by droughts and floods. Also I’m guessing the lack of stocked trout hasn’t helped 

[WRB]

The quality of the rain run off water that fills Casitas was poor containing Fire Check chemicals used to fight several fires burning the water shed over the past 10 years. No question that has a major impact. However all the other fish species are healthy and population exploded plus a vey good recruitment class of 6”-8” bass. It’s adult size bass that have disappeared.

Castiac gets it’s water from both rain runoff and from Northern Cal via the Feather River canal system. The stripe bass population had doubled this year and the LMB recruitment class looks good but like Casitas the adults size bass are hard to find or catch.

Both lakes the primary bait fish are Threadfin Shad and they are plentiful.

Both lakes need electro shock surveys and the 2024 spawn cycle should expose the adult bass populations.

It’s a mystery!

Tom 

[AlabamaSpothunter]

I find it ironic and tragic as a big Bass fan that all the places that are capable of growing a 25lb FLGM fish are either trying to destroy, or already have destroyed the Bass fisheries.

 

1.) SoCal-  Gov't and environmental conditions killed the greatest big Bass producer in history.

 

2.) Lake Biwa, Japan-  Gov't policies and fishing pressure has significantly diminished the lake however just yesterday I watched a video from a local and owner of Signal baits that he saw a fish on bed last year that was a WR.    

 

3.) South Africa, a number of "Dams"- Same as Japan, deemed an invasive species and every fish is culled.  

 

To my knowledge sadly FL, TX, nor Mexico has the true climate to produce 20lb+ fish, but an outlier could always spring up from those places, and at least in TX, and FL they have a friendly Gov't towards Bass policies.   

 

Guatemala is another country that had the potential but ended up doing the same thing as the above places deeming them invasive species.   

 

 

[WRB]

Texas is heads and shoulders higher in bass management then any other State, California has zero bass management.

Tom 

[tunaman]

They did at one point… DVL (Diamond Valley Reservoir) was a prime example, and Mike Guisti did a masterful job of putting together a world-class fishery.

 

Castaic was always a sh*tshow, due to the constant drawdowns and refills, and it always boggled my mind how it could have such a healthy population of big bass given the constant temperature fluctuations.

 

Casitas was my home away from home - spent a lot of time there prior to the quagga fiasco with the wife and our motorhome. For anyone who isn’t familiar, go check out Big Bait Posse on YouTube, or some of Orso Dave’s (RIP) videos he posted (roberdave on YouTube).

 

To see how far Casitas has been mismanaged just breaks my heart… they had a recent tournament where NO ONE weighed in a legal bass… unheard of.

 

That is one of the reasons I am no longer a resident of Commiefornia.

[Caliyak]

it's interesting that the north and central bodies of water are not going through the same problem. Here in the Valley, we have full lakes, healthy population of fish and even brought back a lake, Tulare Lake. 

I wonder if this is only So-Cal lakes. Any issues up at Clear or the Delta?  

[Darth-Baiter]

The Delta is fire, consistent at least, but it takes skill and knowledge.  i flounder around and do okay..  i dont love their plant-life mitigation policy, but i understand why they do it.  

 

i have my secret haunts.  fun  places, pristine.  

 

0% chance that this doenst become a chit-on-CA, thread. 

[NorcalBassin]

Lack of consistent trout plants the past 5+ years definitely decreased the prevalence of DD bass in many norcal highland reservoirs, but there are still a lot of good bass to be caught. Clear Lake was also strange this year with the lack of grass... rumor is the powers that be overdid it when killing the weeds. No idea what's happening down in socal, but in CA it's a safe bet it has something to do with mismanagement by people who are not vested in the fisheries.

[Darth-Baiter]

they pelleted the weeds in Clearlake.  StatePark is usually a jungle by late spring and full of FAT BASS.  this time it was weedless.  sandy clean bottom.    any grass I did find was brown.

 

I asked and they said the dock owners complained enough they dumped in a pelleted herbicide.  

 

good times.  

[TnRiver46]

^gotta love that……… not………..

a good many dock owners give us all a bad name 😂 

 

maybe I should plant aquatic veg around my dock, start a trend 

[thediscochef]

Didn't the water in California rise by 20+ feet in most of their big bass lakes? I'd think that would have at least *some* effect on the density of populations everywhere just from a geometry perspective. 

I do sometimes wish I had been born in time for the heyday of this activity, the stories about castaic/casitas and fork in the 70s/80s/90s are things I will never experience. Texas does a good job of managing the bass genetics here but we have issues imo - it's not any one single issue that kills giant potential in texas, but rather a team of problems that all pretty much stem from ignorance or a lack of research

the only piece I really get annoyed with is the totally clown-shoes, jokerman-font nonexistent levels of bag limit enforcement down here. When there are enough people, they are part of the habitat

I digress

I'm gonna say it's the rise in water + poor quality runoff + what sounds like a total lack of management causing the disappearance of big bass at casitas/castaic. But I'm also just some guy who is up way too late

[bloodkitty]

I fish Castaic a good bit. I think more harvesting of smaller bass and any sized striper couldn't hurt. 

[Woody B]

Are the Stripers able to reproduce in these lakes or do they just keep getting stocked?   "They" say Stripers can't reproduce in the reservoirs around here.  Something about needed running water.   I've heard that they successfully spawn in some of the Tenn. tail races.   

[J._Bricker]

Stripers don’t get stocked in California @Woody B, and I believe they do reproduce naturally in New Hogan. They have been introduced to lakes all over the state as fry via the State and Federal pumps in Tracy moving water from Sacramento / San Joaquin Delta south for urban and big agribusiness uses.
The only time I remember stripers being stocked was when state officials dumped over 2 million striper smolts in the state aqueduct. Those fish were paid for buy anglers purchasing a “Bay-Delta Enhancement Stamp” at $5.00 when they purchased their license. The state’s rationale was it was providing a fishing opportunity- just not for the anglers who paid to have SF Bay fishery enhanced.

 

[Choporoz]

On 10/31/2023 at 11:30 AM, WRB said:

the adults size bass are hard to find or catch.

 

 

It’s a mystery!

Tom 

I blame Livescope

On 10/31/2023 at 11:41 PM, WRB said:

 California has zero bass management.

Tom 

They did have some not bass management too long ago.  They tried to manage bass right out of the Delta to protect salmon.   

[J._Bricker]

51 minutes ago, Choporoz said:

They tried to manage bass right out of the Delta to protect salmon.   

Nothings changed in that regard nor will it. Unfortunately “They” are doing a really good job of getting rid of the salmon, both wild and hatchery fish. 

[WRB]

On 4/2/2024 at 2:57 PM, Woody B said:

Are the Stripers able to reproduce in these lakes or do they just keep getting stocked?   "They" say Stripers can't reproduce in the reservoirs around here.  Something about needed running water.   I've heard that they successfully spawn in some of the Tenn. tail races.   

Stripe bass are continuously being replenished  by the aqueduct system and adjusting spawning when seasonal rivers are flowing from rain run off. Castiac is a classic example of Striper survival at the demise of Black Bass both LMB and the lesser Smallmouth populations.

Without restocking fresh FLMB the strain will continue its downfall.

Tom

[Vilas15]

On 11/7/2023 at 12:11 AM, thediscochef said:

I do sometimes wish I had been born in time for the heyday of this activity, the stories about castaic/casitas and fork in the 70s/80s/90s are things I will never experience.

They'll say the same thing about OH Ivie of the 2020s in 20 years so get on out there

[roadwarrior]

On 4/2/2024 at 4:57 PM, Woody B said:

Are the Stripers able to reproduce in these lakes or do they just keep getting stocked?   "They" say Stripers can't reproduce in the reservoirs around here.  Something about needed running water.   I've heard that they successfully spawn in some of the Tenn. tail races.   

It's a mystery around here...Stripers supposedly don't reproduce here and they are no longer

stocked.  So...where do all the little fish come from?

[gobig]

On 10/30/2023 at 10:55 PM, WRB said:

Both lakes Casitas and Castiac once considered world record bass potential producing lakes are in trouble.

Lake Casitas during the 2023 season can’t produce more the 2 bass caught by any one team this year with winning tournament weights under 3 lbs. no more then 3 teams have caught more then 1 Bass this year.

Lake Castiac is similar, except showing some improvement in the fall with a few limits of 5 bass weighing under 8 lbs. 

What happened??? No one knows for sure?

Tom

 

 

Most of the nor cal lakes are doing very well despite the weed control efforts and the obvious negative effects they have. The number one thing I think have seen impact the lakes has to do with water levels fluctuating drastically. Has that changed over the years? LMB don’t seem to do well in those conditions.

[AlabamaSpothunter]

This video really make me think about things, and it's from Oliver Ngy who built his big fish rep in Cali.  

 

Long but well worth the listen.  

 

 

[WRB]

Lakes Castiac and Casitas produced 20+ pound FLMB. The 2 lakes are only 40 miles apart but 2 very different ecosystems. 
Lake Casitas is owned and operated privately by board members of city of Ventura and Ojai as a water storage reservoir. Opened in 1958 to the public for camping and fishing. Casitas is less then 3 miles from the Pacific Ocean therefore has a cooler coastal climate with oak covered hills. Water supply is rain run off and Ventura River.

Lake Castiac is owned by the city of Los Angeles as part of the Feather River project to transfer water from Northern California Delta River system to Southern California. Castiac is located in a drier hotter climate zone with few trees mostly chaparral brush with steep canyons.

Casitas water levels are fairly constant affected by drought conditions and local politics. Overall Casitas has more stable ecosystem.

Castiac water levels vary radically up to 150 vertical feet year to year with water being supplied by the MWD for the city and county of LA use. How bass thrived in Castiac is a mystery, tremendous fishing  pressure coupled with draw downs and refills. Stripe Bass from the water supply system has over stressed the fishery imo.

Casitas will recover it’s a more stable ecosystem with crazy political issues to overcome.

Tom

[AlabamaSpothunter]

No matter what Texas does, and they set the standard in big Bass management, could ever produce what CA, and especially S. CA has produced in the past.  

 

According to every Bass biologist I follow, this is because S. CA has the absolute perfect climate to grow trophy fish.   The optimal water temperature for Bass growth is 70-75d.    Texas's extreme heat, and traditional southern winters limits the number of "growing days" a Bass has.   

 

There was a number of CA lakes that have produced epic fish and they never received trout stocking.   There are also NLGM strain only lakes in CA, they have produced epic sized NLGMs.....13lb+ fish IIrc.     

 

Alabama Bass from Smith Lake north of Birmingham were transplanted to the CA, and whereas the Spots only get to about 5-7lbs in Smith Lake, or Alabama......they reach DD+ size in CA.    

 

Climate is only one of the key ingredients, but no other place on earth has shown it has the perfect climate to grow WR sized Bass more than CA.     

[Big Hands]

Instead of having a 15" minimum size limit at the upper lake at Castaic, I would rather they allowed people to only keep the smaller bass (under 13" for instance). I don't think they need a slot limit on the upper lake because I don't imagine there are many, if not ANY bass that are currently over 24" in there today. 

 

Trout are currently stocked in Castaic. There was a 5,000 lbs plant a month or so ago. There were mostly 2-3 lbs trout planted at that time. I don't think are are a ton of bass in Castaic that are eating trout of that size. Even the mostly under 5 lbs stripers that make up the majority of the striper population might have a rough time choking those down. There will be a 2,000 lbs trout plant there at the beginning of May for a kid's fishing event where they put them all in a pen and let kids fish for them for half a day. There are currently over 1,000 kids signed up to participate, then they will take the net down and we'll see what happens.

 

Do stripers spawn in Castaic? Yes, they do. I have seen it. It looks very similar to feeding on balls of shad at the surface, but they are actually much more concentrated and aren't super interested in striking a lure tossed into the fray. 

 

Castaic has had 40 lbs class stripers caught back when they were first getting into the lake. Now, just like the double digit bass that used to roam there, I rarely see or hear about big stripers there these days. I don't think Castaic EVER grew 40 lbs stripers, they just ended up there at the end of their aqueduct journey.

 

They move a lot of water through the lake and the level is not necessarily indicative of how much water is entering the lake. In fact, the water in Castaic only rises or falls because of aqueduct water. Whatever flows in naturally has to flow out (through the upper lake, down into the lagoon, and then into the riverbed at the south end of the lagoon.

 

The lagoon has a 13" minimum and has better quality fish than the upper lake currently does. Stripers have (rarely) been caught in the lagoon, but no small ones I am aware of, which makes me believe that the lagoon doesn't have the right conditions (as I have been told) for them to successfully spawn in the lagoon.

 

Could it be restored to any significant degree? I don't see how Castaic would ever be able to come come close to going back to it's former glory status without killing every striper in the lake along with fixing it so they can't enter the lake. Without that happening, I don't even think they should try if their goal is for the lake to produce world class largemouth bass like it did BITD. It was all but an accident that it happened at all in the first place. Were it not for a couple dozen Florida strain fingerlings being planted back when the lake was first impounded, even that wouldn't have have happened. I may or may not have heard tall tales of some independent non-sanctioned stockings here and there, or maybe just . . . there. At this point, stocking fingerlings makes as much sense as drinking poison and hoping your enemies will die.

 

Will it be restored to any significant degree? Stranger things have happened. . . . Wait a minute, even I don't believe that. Even if they could, I don't believe they ever would.