Baitcaster Clutch Questions

[postoak]

I'm used to the anti-reverse clutches on spinning reels but working on baitcasters is new to me.  I assume(d) that the one way roller clutch bearing on a baitcaster is the equivalent to the spinning reel clutch.  Is that correct? 

 

The thumb bar is called the clutch bar on parts schematics.  It has nothing to do with the one way roller clutch bearing does it?  Or does it?  The clutch bar is somehow connected to the clutch spring bushing, the clutch plate, and the cam plate.  But how this all works is a mystery to me as this is the part of baitcasters that is rarely taken apart.  Debo, to his credit, has taken it apart, but he didn't really explain how it all works.  Can somebody here go step-by-step through all that?

[garroyo130]

Pushing the thumb bar down disengages the spool from the pinion gear and allows it to spin without resistance. The anti-reverse bearing is always "on" or "anti-reversing" or whatever you want to call it. 

 

Pushing the thumb bar

moves clutch plate/cam plate and cam

which moves the yoke and pinion gear up and disengages it from the spool, allowing the spool to spin freely

pressing the thumb bar reverses this

[bulldog1935]

A/R roller bearing is on the main shaft, which the clutch separates from the spool by a yoke lifting the pinion gear out of engagement with both the spool and main gear.  

This freespool design goes back to 1918 (Pflueger Douglas patent, also A/R), but got shelved in 1928 until Ambassadeur picked it up again in 1954.  

[postoak]

Thanks.

 

It looks like the inside-out order (that is, starting from the body), is:

clutch guard

clutch plate,

cam plate

clutch cam retainer 

yoke

pinion gear

 

The movement is from clutch bar to clutch bar guide to #2 the clutch plate.  We haven't talked about the clutch guard.  What is it's function?  Is it attached by screws to the body, that is, doesn't rotate?

Debo appears to just lift it off, but the schematic seems to be showing screws.  If there are screws, it wouldn't be able to rotate with the clutch plate.  Which is it, attached via screws or just sitting over the raised ring on the body?  Rotates or doesn't rotate?

 

The cam plate looks like it picks up the rotary motion of the clutch plate.  I also can't tell if it is screwed to it or again, just sitting on molded projections of the clutch plate.  

 

From the clutch plate outward, I understand.

 

 

 

 

[garroyo130]

 

[postoak]

Oops, that last sentence should read "from the clutch cam retainer out I understand".

[bulldog1935]

This is where capture and paste of schematic, and/or capture and paste of "Debo" stills is important for an intelligent discussion.  The reel model isn't yet mentioned.  

[postoak]

Ah yes, this is a Shimano Metanium DC 101 that I was referring to:

 

Shimano Metanium Schematic

 

Debo appears to be working on a Lew's Speed Spool.  It's in this video just after 8:15.

 

Debo Disassembly - Reassembly Video Part 1

 

The other one I'm looking at is the Johnny Morris JCB10HLA.

 

Johnny Morris JCB10HLA

[newapti5]

On 10/29/2023 at 11:25 AM, postoak said:

Thanks.

 

It looks like the inside-out order (that is, starting from the body), is:

clutch guard

clutch plate,

pinion bearing (If you're assembling the parts, don't forget the pinion gear bearing between them) 

cam plate

clutch cam retainer 

yoke

pinion gear

 

The movement is from clutch bar to clutch bar guide to #2 the clutch plate.  We haven't talked about the clutch guard.  What is it's function?  Is it attached by screws to the body, that is, doesn't rotate?

Yes, the clutch guard is screwed to the frame. Its function is just as the name suggests, to guard the clutch plate. For most reels with metal frames, clutch plates are usually made of metal, and they rotate as you press down the clutch bar. So, you don't want to rub the clutch plate, a piece of metal, directly against the metal frame. 

 

Debo appears to just lift it off, but the schematic seems to be showing screws.  If there are screws, it wouldn't be able to rotate with the clutch plate.  Which is it, attached via screws or just sitting over the raised ring on the body?  Rotates or doesn't rotate?

The clutch guard doesn't move or rotate; it's screwed to the frame. Different brands have different designs for the clutch guard though.

 

The cam plate looks like it picks up the rotary motion of the clutch plate.  I also can't tell if it is screwed to it or again, just sitting on molded projections of the clutch plate. 

Yes, the clutch cam is "sitting on molded projections of the clutch plate." They rotate together, and neither of them is screwed down to the frame. 

Clutch cam is an important piece: it transmits the movement of the clutch plate to the clutch pawl and pinion gear yoke. It also keeps the pinion gear bearing in place, after you screw tight the clutch cam retainer. One side note: after you remove the clutch cam retainer, all the parts above might just jump out because of the clutch pawl spring (or another spring for other reels), so be careful.

 

From the clutch plate outward, I understand.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[postoak]

Thanks, very helpful.

 

I have the 3 schematics I mentioned above pulled up side by side and that area is quite different.

 

Johnny Morris JCB10HLA

 

Yoke holder

Clutch cam

Cam plate

Yoke

 

Metanium DC

 

clutch guard

clutch plate,

pinion bearing (If you're assembling the parts, don't forget the pinion gear bearing between them) 

cam plate

clutch cam retainer 

yoke

pinion gear

 

Lew's Speed Spool 2nd Gen

 

Clutch cam

Link plate

Bushing 

Yoke

 

 

[postoak]

It seems I have to click Mark as Solution on one post.  Everybody was helpful, so I just chose the last answer by Newapti5

[FrnkNsteen]

2 hours ago, postoak said:

It seems I have to click Mark as Solution on one post.  Everybody was helpful, so I just chose the last answer by Newapti5

I struggle with that too!! 😁

 

How do you choose with lots of helpful feedback?!?