Old Town Autopilot dual motor setup?

[Jeffrey Walker]

I’m looking to hear from people who run an additional motor like a torqueeso or newport on the rear.  The purpose of the dual motor is the rear motor is for speed and for getting to and from fishing spots.  The minnkota is for fishing.  I’m not looking to run both at the same time.

 

Flat question is anyone do this?  

second question is how?  the autopilot has a rear rudder, do you mount the motor off to the side?m or remove the rudder and use the motor or an accessory?

 

looking for thoughts. if i go the 2 motor route, i’m leaning towards mounting to the side band leaving the stock rudder.  I’ve seen the hobie lynx with a bixpy do this and other kayaks but not sure if this would work with a more powerful motor.

 

Any thoughts?

[Zcoker]

My Old Town 106 hits about the same speed as the Auto Pilot (same motor) and is plenty fast enough for me, even in tournaments. You can get a bit more speed with a cheap airplane prop. In any case, what would an extra motor with all that extra weight give you anyway, maybe about the same speed or even less? Kinda of a wash, imho. 

[Jeffrey Walker]

the newport and the torqueedo 3HP are significantly faster 

[flyfisher]

Everyone I know, or at least the majority, who has a rudder and a motor, take the rudder off and use the motor to steer.  The torque and power the motors give almost overpower a rudder.   The weight diference should you go newport or torqeedo and a lithium battery would be like 30lbs max so not a huge concern there really.

As far as your dual motor set up, i have seen it but it is ridiculous to me.  If I wanted a trolling motor and rear motor I would rig up a pond prowler or something with dual motors and call it a day and probably save a wad of cash in the process.  Don't force a hammer to do a screwdrivers job just because you are a rep for Estwing

[Zcoker]

1 hour ago, Jeffrey Walker said:

the newport and the torqueedo 3HP are significantly faster 

 

What kind of speed are you looking for? Just seems like a lot extra of money for a few more mph, especially on a yak that already has a nice factory built in motor. In retrospect, it probably would've been best to get a yak without a motor and add a high thrust motor to it.  

[flyfisher]

24 minutes ago, Zcoker said:

 

What kind of speed are you looking for? Just seems like a lot extra of money for a few more mph, especially on a yak that already has a nice factory built in motor. In retrospect, it probably would've been best to get a yak without a motor and add a high thrust motor to it.  

not owning an AP i can only go based on my dad's and fishing with him and I can say the AP doesn't do well in current and is much slower than my NK180s so the extra torque and power would be nice if that is your application.  I could also see not running full throttle and increasing range and battery life.

[casts_by_fly]

12 hours ago, Zcoker said:

 

What kind of speed are you looking for? Just seems like a lot extra of money for a few more mph, especially on a yak that already has a nice factory built in motor. In retrospect, it probably would've been best to get a yak without a motor and add a high thrust motor to it.  

It’s about 50% more speed- from 4 mph to 6 mph or thereabouts. It’s a good chunk of cost. If you were fishing big water and running from place to place it might be worth it. Saves 15 minutes from a 45 minute run. 
 

the airplane props will give you about 10% more.  Nice little boost for $7 if you’re fishing open water with no grass. 

[Bankc]

I'd probably skip the second motor too.  Going from 4mph to 6mph is just a 2mph jump.  Yeah, it's also technically 50% faster, but the difference between a 30 minute run and 45 minute run isn't huge.  Either way, it's still a long run.  You're spending a lot of money, adding complexity (increasing the odds of something going wrong), adding weight, and adding time setting up and tearing down.  And at some point, it's going to make more sense to get out of a kayak and get a jon boat with a gas motor.  In a jon boat with a 9.9hp motor, you can hit 15mph, which will turn that 45 minute run into a 12 minute run, which is starting to approach something more significant.  At that speed, you could actually fish some extra spots in a given day.   

[flyfisher]

5 minutes ago, Bankc said:

I'd probably skip the second motor too.  Going from 4mph to 6mph is just a 2mph jump.  Yeah, it's also technically 50% faster, but the difference between a 30 minute run and 45 minute run isn't huge.  Either way, it's still a long run.  You're spending a lot of money, adding complexity (increasing the odds of something going wrong), adding weight, and adding time setting up and tearing down.  And at some point, it's going to make more sense to get out of a kayak and get a jon boat with a gas motor.  In a jon boat with a 9.9hp motor, you can hit 15mph, which will turn that 45 minute run into a 12 minute run, which is starting to approach something more significant.  At that speed, you could actually fish some extra spots in a given day.   

Agree completely on this one.  Reminds me of when I hear people with a paid off vehicle saying they want something with better gas mileage and I ask them well how much more gas mileage are we talking because unless you are increasing by at minimum 50% it really isn't worth the change for that reason.  

[casts_by_fly]

I'm in the same camp as flyfisher and bankC with regards to a second electric.  If it were free then I'd do it in a heartbeat.  I'd love to have an extra 2 mph on the water.  One lake I fish locally is 1200 acres.  From the ramp to the upper end where I like to fish (which is about the furthest run on the lake) is 2 miles.  That's a half hour run full out and going to take 20% of my battery to run at that speed straight there.  Its also a big enough lake that running from spot to spot isn't practical at 4 mph.  For this lake and 2 others around I'd love to have 6 mph.  To that end, I've considered a 2.5-3 hp gas motor.  They are small, light, and cheap.  Integrated gas tank.  I can get 6-7 mph (about as fast as I'd want to push an AP) and not worry about battery at all.  For 200-300 that it would cost I would really consider it.

[Bankc]

Here's what I do on long runs in my kayak with my trolling motor:  troll.  If I've got a 30-60 minute run to my next spot, I'll troll on my way.  I'll often catch a fish and/or scout out some possible other locations.  It's a good way to make use of otherwise wasted time.  Now, instead of wasting 45 minutes, or 30 with a second motor, you're fishing and perhaps learning something about a bite pattern that you might have otherwise not known about.  

[Darth-Baiter]

it is painful when I watch the guys at Clearlake set up two motors on their kayaks.  it appears to be a fair amount of effort.  yuck.

 

I hope to get a Newport this holiday.  at least my hints to my wife couldn't be more obvious.  I just want help getting to a place.  fishing the spot, I would love spot lock, but I have done well without it.  so, I only want one motor.  

[Zcoker]

2 hours ago, Bankc said:

Here's what I do on long runs in my kayak with my trolling motor:  troll.  If I've got a 30-60 minute run to my next spot, I'll troll on my way.  I'll often catch a fish and/or scout out some possible other locations.  It's a good way to make use of otherwise wasted time.  Now, instead of wasting 45 minutes, or 30 with a second motor, you're fishing and perhaps learning something about a bite pattern that you might have otherwise not known about.  

 

I agree. Some of the areas that I fish are upwards of 10,000 acres or more. If I have to go across to get to any of my far off spots, I'm usually trolling or fishing along the way. In fact, I've often stumbled into better fish while getting to a spot than the spot itself! 

[Zcoker]

15 hours ago, casts_by_fly said:

It’s about 50% more speed- from 4 mph to 6 mph or thereabouts. It’s a good chunk of cost. If you were fishing big water and running from place to place it might be worth it. Saves 15 minutes from a 45 minute run. 
 

the airplane props will give you about 10% more.  Nice little boost for $7 if you’re fishing open water with no grass. 

 

Well, there ya go, $7 sounds about right to me! I'd definitely give that try before I dropped $3k on a 3hp Torqeedo. 

[Alex from GA]

In electric only lakes lots of people have 2 high thrust motors on the stern plus a bow mounted trolling motor on their jon boats.  Kayaks are different with little room for batteries, 6 rods, tackle boxes, etc.

[Darth-Baiter]

23 hours ago, Alex from GA said:

In electric only lakes lots of people have 2 high thrust motors on the stern plus a bow mounted trolling motor on their jon boats.  Kayaks are different with little room for batteries, 6 rods, tackle boxes, etc.

i was on the CA Delta.  launched and was immediately in the tidal current fighting upstream like a salmon.  a dude in this decked out PA14 comes ripping by me.  he had a trolling motor up front and a torqueedo out back.  looked downright luxurious.    He grinned at me, and said sarcasticly, "that looks like too much work to me".  i grinned and beat down the comment in my head.  not my style to body shame a brother.  at the end of the day, i saw him again..at the truck.  he had stuff EVERYWHERE.  he was breaking down gear and putting it away in his giant truck.  i did my 5-min dismount and drove off.  as i passed him, i said, "That looks like too much work for me".    he laughed.  he was cool.  

[Bankc]

21 hours ago, Darth-Baiter said:

i was on the CA Delta.  launched and was immediately in the tidal current fighting upstream like a salmon.  a dude in this decked out PA14 comes ripping by me.  he had a trolling motor up front and a torqueedo out back.  looked downright luxurious.    He grinned at me, and said sarcasticly, "that looks like too much work to me".  i grinned and beat down the comment in my head.  not my style to body shame a brother.  at the end of the day, i saw him again..at the truck.  he had stuff EVERYWHERE.  he was breaking down gear and putting it away in his giant truck.  i did my 5-min dismount and drove off.  as i passed him, i said, "That looks like too much work for me".    he laughed.  he was cool.  

Yeah, the more stuff you put on a kayak, the more you need a trailer.  Not for the haulin', but for the loadin'.  With my single trolling motor, it's still about a 15-minute ordeal at the ramp.  And I've got it worked out like a well-choreographed ballet, without a single wasted movement.  I typically look for lesser used ramps or try to hit them at times when they're less busy.  

But the tradeoff is I can fish more spots and more often with a motor.  I avoided getting one for the first year because I wanted the exercise, but the ability to fish comfortably in 20mph winds with 30mph gusts is HUGE in windy Oklahoma.  That's at least an extra 10-15 days of fishing per year, if you only go on weekends.  

 

Still, I do envy those with simpler setups.  Not on the water.  But definitely at the ramp.  They look so relaxed!  

[Darth-Baiter]

I'm hoping there is a Newport shaped wrapped box under the tree this year.  I want ONE motor.  there are some areas I like to fish, but the time it takes me to get there is limiting me.  a motor would mitigate that and open up more water.  

[casts_by_fly]

@Bankc I hear you on setup / tear down. I’ve got my routine down to 5 minutes or so most of the time and our ramps aren’t too busy so it’s not a big deal. I think the electronics are my biggest time sink. The helix and the megalive pole plus two megalive wires and the wiring harness on the helix are where I spend my time. The motor is drop in and plug it in. The tackle bag goes in the back and the rods on the rack. Lots of little things though that all add up that I could eliminate with a trailer. Plus the lifting in and out of the truck. The last two trips I didn’t even bring the electronics in the boat since I know that lake so well and it was nice not loading them. 

[immortl]

@Bankc and @casts_by_fly - I feel both of yours' pain, but it's worth it when out on the water.  I need to work out a little and get a little stronger.  I have an Xi3 and its addition of ~30lbs on the front of my PA14 is just enough to keep me from being able to lift the front of the kayak high enough to get it on the cart (can't quite transition it above my elbows to flip my hands and bench press it up).  I unload the kayak from the truck bed, put it on the cart, then put on the fish finder head unit/connect all the cables and put on the motor and motor battery pack.  I'm usually just happy to be out and take my time with rigging.  Once fully rigged, I wheel it down the ramp and get it in the water so I'm not at the ramp but for a few minutes when launching.  When I come back in though, I beach it, take the motor off the front, get it on the cart, then drop the motor back on the kayak (balance, the battery is still in the back) and wheel it back to the truck where I do the rest of the un-rigging.  I can see the appeal of a trailer to save the rigging time, but eh, I'm happy to be out so I don't sweat it.

 

I only have the one motor on the bow.  I've thought about and like the idea of perhaps a 2nd on the back, if I was fishing larger bodies of water.  But I am just getting into this kayak fishing hobby and am in NJ where most of the ponds/lakes/reservoirs are quite manageable with pedals and/or the single motor.  

[Jeffrey Walker]

Hmm, i don’t take anything off my kayak ever.  My tacklenstays in the crate, my crate stays in the boat my fishfinder and all other tools stay on the boat.  only think i take off is my powerpole and rods. so far no issue.  i even leave the fishfinder on the ram mount.  occasionally i’ll take the battery off to charge 

[casts_by_fly]

2 hours ago, Jeffrey Walker said:

Hmm, i don’t take anything off my kayak ever.  My tacklenstays in the crate, my crate stays in the boat my fishfinder and all other tools stay on the boat.  only think i take off is my powerpole and rods. so far no issue.  i even leave the fishfinder on the ram mount.  occasionally i’ll take the battery off to charge 

that’s fine if your kayak weighs 70 lb and 100 fully loaded.  The AP is more like 150 plus tackle. Know that if you get one. 

[Jeffrey Walker]

yeah my current rig is designed for maximum fishing time and minimal loading/unloading time. this is why i bring so many rods, i think it saves me time, i’m rarely re-tying.  i’m also curious if bait could change things whether something is working or not. 

[Koz]

Sorry to dig up an old thread, but I’ve been looking at various ways to get more top speed in my AP120. There’s no way I would put two motors on it, plus that is illegal with many your.

 

One thing of note - when I fished the Bassmaster series at Guntersville there were a lot of anglers with lighter plastic kayaks that were getting 8 - 9 mph with their setups.

 

Meanwhile, I had swapped out my standard prop for a Weedless Wedge prop and I was getting only 3.1 mph.

[Jeffrey Walker]

I run dual motors on mine.  the boat is perfectly setup for them to upgrade the motor to something with some serious power, it's a shame they haven't done it yet.