Who’s good at add on rod end balancing ?

[Bandersnatch]

I’m looking to build my ultimate summer heavier pitching setup. 
 

I’ll be using a 7’3xh expride with a steez ct sv 8 ratio with a 100mm paddle handle.

 

This rod is obviously not balanced to have quite this light of a reel.

 

I want it balanced best with 3/4 punch mill tungeston weight. 
 

what I do know how to actually properly balance it. What balancer works best and fits the butt as well as how do you factor in the weight you’ll use. You probably don’t hang the weight off the tip but rather have the line extended out but the weight does impact the balance right ?
 

I spend the summer needing about 3/4 to get through some thick stuff and love the power of the expride but admittedly any xh will get heavy after pitching for 10 hours in a day 

 

 

Any help is greatly appreciated. 

[Mike L]

The easiest thing to do is put quaters or whatever into the but cap of your rod if you have one. 
 

If not you can wrap tape around the end or buy a Cush-it butt end cap and slide it on. 
You can always add more weight inside of it if needed. 
 

 

 

 

 

Mike

[MickD]

As far as what amount of weight to add, you have to decide that.  There is no formula.  I think if you try to balance with the lure  hanging  you're going to have to add a lot of weight.  Best way is to add weight in some temporary way, like weights/coins/washers/etc under a slip-on butt knob (Bass Pro used to make one, but I don't think they do any more, I could not find anything) and fish it.  When you know how much weight you like, then a custom builder probably could affix the weight permanently.  

 

The Cush It recommended by Mike L should work.

[Tennessee Boy]

The “tip heavyness” you feel is called torque in physics and there is a formula for it.  Torque is usually measured in foot pounds but can be any unit of distance multiplied by any unit of force.  Let’s use inch ounces for our calculations.  To offset the 3/4 ounce weight you measure the distance from the tip to the pivot point.  Let’s assume that’s 78 inches.  Multiply 78 times the weight of the lure (0.75 ounces) to get 58.5 inch ounces of torque.  To balance that you need to add an opposing force to the rod butt.  Measure the distance from the pivot point to the rod butt then divide the torque (58.5) by that distance to get the weight you need to add to the butt.  If the butt is 9 inches from the pivot point you will need to add 6.9 ounces (58.5 / 9) to the rod butt to counter act the torque added by the 3/4 weight.  Note that these calculations are for when the rod is held parallel to the ground and they change constantly as you raise the rod tip.  This fact makes the whole exercise pointless from a practical standpoint (assuming you raise the rod tip when fishing).  Also adding weight to the rod increases the rod’s moment of inertia which is not good.

 

Learn the physics and you’ll learn why you don’t want to add weight to balance your rod.  

[LrgmouthShad]

@Tennessee Boy I am quite rusty on physics but yes that all checks out. I'm now trying to figure out why increased moment of inertia is a bad thing. Higher angular momentum so that the rod is marginally less reactive to changes in direction?

[Tennessee Boy]

3 minutes ago, LrgmouthShad said:

Higher angular momentum so that the rod is marginally less reactive to changes in direction?

Yes.  It will take more force to get the rod tip moving when you cast and it will take more force from the bite of a fish to move the tip so you can feel the bite.

[T-Billy]

I balance all my bottom contact rods with those rubber slip on furniture feet of the appropriate size. I pour the needed amount of lead into them and quench in water. Works like a charm and doesn't look bad.

[Bandersnatch]

4 hours ago, T-Billy said:

I balance all my bottom contact rods with those rubber slip on furniture feet of the appropriate size. I pour the needed amount of lead into them and quench in water. Works like a charm and doesn't look bad.

Where do you get them 

[bulldog1935]

My 7'5" Valleyhill MH has 3 removable threaded weights in the butt cap.  

I don't think this is Fuji, but Fuji models are EWBC, TWBC (titanium), Rod Craft EC, Mud Hole CRB - they're mostly under $10, until you get to Mud Hole $25 system.  

Sure makes the long rod tip feel light.  

 

[WRB]

Not to get a ticking contest but torque is a rotation force for fishing rod balance doesn’t directly apply, that a moment force.

If the reel seat center is the balance pivot point the reel weight shouldn’t be a factor. Anglers like a 14” reel seat length from butt so added weight is needed to balance longer rods.

Dobyns is a rod builder who focuses on balance off the shelf adding the needed butt weight.

I would look into Dobyns punching rods.

Tom

[MickD]

I used to add balance weight until I almost lost a casting rod overboard in Canada, casting aggressively overhead and the rod torqued right out of my hands.  It was about a foot deep when I did a deep reach over the side to snag it.  Increased moment of inertia/angular momentum means it's harder to start and harder to stop.  I no longer add balance weight, just build as light as I can.  I can see how with pitching it might make some sense, but suggest the best way to figure it out is not to calculate, but to go fishing and adjust to what you feel you want.

 

I still maintain that arguing balance with a bare rod, no reel, makes no sense.  Rods are always tip heavy, so build/buy the lightest you can, and maybe the shortest you can if balance is a high priority with the reel you like.  Depends on the combination, not just the rod.  You don't know what the "needed weight" is without knowing what reel is being used.  If Dobyns is adding weight assuming the reel center is the balance pivot point, they have to be adding a lot of weight to their long rods. 

 

And what about the lure?  And the angle the rod is normally fished for the technique it's being used for.  

 

My answer always comes back to:  Lightest rod/lightest reel/go fishing.

[GRiver]

Ok….. I’m a budget fisherman…. I got cane ends at Walmart, put stainless washers in them….. but I like @T-Billy idea better with the lead. It takes less and the cane end would fit more the up on the end of the rod.

I balance my rods,  so they are balanced without a lure. I like to feel the weight of the lure, and adjust from there. If I’m fishing with a heavy lure, I feel it and know how hard to cast, or easy to cast.

I’m not saying this is right, it just works for me. 

[dodgeguy]

I used to balance all my rods. Then I started using lighter rods. Then I met Dobyns. Case closed.

[T-Billy]

3 hours ago, Bandersnatch said:

Where do you get them 

Lowes or Walmart usually.

[T-Billy]

37 minutes ago, dodgeguy said:

I used to balance all my rods. Then I started using lighter rods. Then I met Dobyns. Case closed.

Case reopened. My Ark rods require a bit less weight added to the butt to get the balance I want, compared to Dobyns Sierra or Kaden lines. Length and Power being equal. Dobyns rod balance is WAY overblown IMO. 

57 minutes ago, GRiver said:

I balance my rods,  so they are balanced without a lure

Same here. When palming it, I want it to balance on my middle finger so the tip rests around  9-10 o'clock when I open my hand. Doesn't have to be perfect, just in that neighborhood. I don't balance my moving bait rods. I prefer they be a bit tip heavy.

[dodgeguy]

I did it for years. It definitely helps certain rods. I used the rod balancer butt caps kit bps sold.

[Bandersnatch]

2 hours ago, MickD said:

I used to add balance weight until I almost lost a casting rod overboard in Canada, casting aggressively overhead and the rod torqued right out of my hands.  It was about a foot deep when I did a deep reach over the side to snag it.  Increased moment of inertia/angular momentum means it's harder to start and harder to stop.  I no longer add balance weight, just build as light as I can.  I can see how with pitching it might make some sense, but suggest the best way to figure it out is not to calculate, but to go fishing and adjust to what you feel you want.

 

I still maintain that arguing balance with a bare rod, no reel, makes no sense.  Rods are always tip heavy, so build/buy the lightest you can, and maybe the shortest you can if balance is a high priority with the reel you like.  Depends on the combination, not just the rod.  You don't know what the "needed weight" is without knowing what reel is being used.  If Dobyns is adding weight assuming the reel center is the balance pivot point, they have to be adding a lot of weight to their long rods. 

 

And what about the lure?  And the angle the rod is normally fished for the technique it's being used for.  

 

My answer always comes back to:  Lightest rod/lightest reel/go fishing.

Great info 

Can we agree that in this example (73xh) that it likely wasn’t built to have a 5.5oz reel on it? 
 

so the theory is this. The balance of the rod was probably best at say a 7.5oz reel, maybe even more.

 

I’m looking to put a 5.5 oz reel on it with a big handle. Even if I had to add a full ounce to the butt section to get it to balance tip up (t rig/jig fishing) id be still holding 1oz less overall? 
 

that was the idea, perfect tip up balance, small, palm-able reel with less weight overall. Was gonna put a pitching worth of 50lb silent braid on it. 
 

 

[T-Billy]

[Bankbeater]

The problem is that the rod is balanced for that specific reel.  If you get a different reel it may feel off balance again.  It's always been easier for me just to swap out the reel.

[Bandersnatch]

51 minutes ago, Bankbeater said:

The problem is that the rod is balanced for that specific reel.  If you get a different reel it may feel off balance again.  It's always been easier for me just to swap out the reel.

I get it’s a concern for some but when you’re trying to dial a specific setup in technique in this is what you get 

[casts_by_fly]

12 hours ago, Bandersnatch said:

Great info 

Can we agree that in this example (73xh) that it likely wasn’t built to have a 5.5oz reel on it? 
 

so the theory is this. The balance of the rod was probably best at say a 7.5oz reel, maybe even more.

 

I’m looking to put a 5.5 oz reel on it with a big handle. Even if I had to add a full ounce to the butt section to get it to balance tip up (t rig/jig fishing) id be still holding 1oz less overall? 
 

that was the idea, perfect tip up balance, small, palm-able reel with less weight overall. Was gonna put a pitching worth of 50lb silent braid on it. 
 

 

 

yes, your math for total weight is right. And taking two ounces out of the reel and putting it in the butt will definitely make it less tip heavy while maintaining the same weight. Even with a 7 ounce reel you’d probably need the same weight in the butt to balance. Like Tom said above, the reel is in your hand at the fulcrum of the lever so it’s weight impacts negligibly.

 

short term, get an extra large butt cap normally used for saltwater rods. Check the diameter of your current rod butt and get a snug fit to the id of the new butt cap. The fujis below are pretty heavy in their own right and might be enough. Tune and tweak the setup from there. You should be able to use pennies inside the cap to add weight.  Once you get it right then you can weigh it out and make a more permanent thing like the crb cap below. Replacing a butt cap is an easy job.

 

alternatively, if you already have lead tape you can just skip the temporary butt and wrap lead tape until it feels right at home then throw some electrical or grip tape over it. Go fish it and see how it is. Take the lead tape with you and adjust on the water. 

 

https://mudhole.com/collections/butt-caps/products/fuji-tapered-rubber-caps?variant=34384483319941

 

https://mudhole.com/products/crb-weighted-butt-cap?_pos=1&_sid=fae57d7d9&_ss=r

https://www.amazon.com/Tourna-LD-36-Sampras-Lead-Tape/dp/B00124KUBC/ref=asc_df_B00124KUBC/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=366307018944&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=131418078086947837&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9067609&hvtargid=pla-481530543074&psc=1&tag=&ref=&adgrpid=77662695273&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvadid=366307018944&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=131418078086947837&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9067609&hvtargid=pla-481530543074

[Bandersnatch]

Thank you!