The single best FFS conversation/debate I've heard.....Josh Jones on the Bilge Podcast

[Tackleholic]

I wonder how many of the great old timers in competitive bass fishing have lost their standings to the young generation simply because they will never achieve their expertise with the new electronics.  I also wonder how many talented young anglers are unable to move up because they cannot afford to financially keep up with the constant barrage of upgrades.  

 

Unfortunately, in my opinion, these trends will grow because of all the contributions and sponsorships provided by the companies who manufacture and market these products.  

 

I'm a 100% catch and release guy, and I had all the newest goodies put on my new Vexus when I bought it 3 years ago.  Guess what?......six months later they were obsolete and I'm too dam_  stubborn to buy the upgrades.  "I like that old time rock and roll".

 

 

51 minutes ago, TOXIC said:

When there is a piece of equipment or technology that redefines the sport then I feel it’s definitely worth a look. 

It's taking away the sport, turning it into a video game, an expensive one.

[LrgmouthShad]

@Tackleholic hey to a degree we all choose where we fish and what we use to fish

[TnRiver46]

1 hour ago, Darnold335 said:

@Glenn I do like that they are forming a committee to analyze this. 

Sounds like you’ve never been to a committee meeting……

 

if there was ever a good way to mess things up, that’s it 

[TnRiver46]

Breaking news: Randy’s mad again 

[Glenn]

Clickbait.

[TnRiver46]

Standard operating procedure there 

[gim]

3 hours ago, TnRiver46 said:

Breaking news: Randy’s mad again 

 

[Susky River Rat]

@TnRiver46 I agree to an extent but, they need to make an informed decision. We see what we want to see most times. We think what we want to think. I’d rather them get a whole bunch of data make it available to everyone. Make  determination off of that data. 
 

How much would the stakes change if they made it a lottery system? Each tournament x amount of anglers can use it. Once your name gets picked it’s taken out of the lottery. 
 

 

[TnRiver46]

Sounds like an uneven playing field. That’s one thing I personally don’t like about MLF/BPT, half the guys fish one day then half the next. Then the weights reset, just a whole lot of stuff that’s not the same for each competitor. BASS elite format is pretty straightforward, most weight wins and the people in contention fish the same days with the same stuff 

 

If you only let them have regular sonar, guess what they will still be staring at a screen just catching a few less fish, just like everyone did pre 2018 

 

also not every boat has a marshall, these rules we are imagining are not enforceable 

 

 

if you actually watch any live coverage from these tourneys, there’s always people using different tactics. If you just read the headline of who won, you think it’s all FFS. People were crushing big smallmouth and largemouth shallow in the St Lawrence with chatterbaits but all the internet comments mention nothing but deep fishing drop shots. The biggest fish of the whole season was caught ultra shallow with a stick worm by Jason christie at Lay lake . 
 

 

[TOXIC]

For me, I look back at what precipitated all of the rule changes over the years and see if this one measures up.  There have been “unfair advantages” like using tin boats, that while certainly available to everyone, still caused a rule change.

[AlabamaSpothunter]

This is what really gets me!    

 

Imagine banning an A-Rig, but not FFS......this is when I realized that it's all about the money, there was no "Big A-Rig" to save A-Rigs, but there is most certainly "Big Electronics" to save FFS on the professional level, this is why at the end of the day I don't think FFS is going anywhere.    Money talks and so on.  

[Susky River Rat]

@AlabamaSpothunter that is exactly why I do not think there will be a ban. 
 

@TOXIC correct no boat manufacturer wants to see a 50k aluminum boat with a jet beat a 100k bass boat. It’s not good for the bottom line. 

[Glenn]

If FFS ends up being the primary cause of fish population declines, then state agencies will make them illegal.

[gim]

8 hours ago, TnRiver46 said:

also not every boat has a marshall, these rules we are imagining are not enforceable

What the PMTT did was ban the transducers.  You can use them pre-fishing, but once tournament time starts, the transducers must literally be removed from the rig.  Can't use it if it's not there.  That's how its enforceable.

 

Its like saying a live bait ban isn't enforceable.  It sure is.  They can't have any.

[TnRiver46]

19 hours ago, gimruis said:

What the PMTT did was ban the transducers.  You can use them pre-fishing, but once tournament time starts, the transducers must literally be removed from the rig.  Can't use it if it's not there.  That's how its enforceable.

 

Its like saying a live bait ban isn't enforceable.  It sure is.  They can't have any.

Nobody goes thru all the boats in a big bass tournament. Heck a few guys have brought live bass to bass tournaments ala mike long . Got away with it, even with co anglers on board 

 

someone can get photo and video of you casting live bait from a distance, nobody knows what you are seeing on a screen from 50 yards away 

[AlabamaSpothunter]

5 minutes ago, TnRiver46 said:

Nobody goes thru all the boats in a big bass tournament. Heck a few guys have brought live bass to bass tournaments ala mike long . Got away with it, even with co anglers on board 

 

someone can get photo and video of you casting live bait from a distance, nobody knows what you are seeing on a screen from 50 yards away 

They could ban it on the Elites if they wanted, how exactly would they still use FFS in front of the world on BASS Live?    

 

[TnRiver46]

29 minutes ago, AlabamaSpothunter said:

They could ban it on the Elites if they wanted, how exactly would they still use FFS in front of the world on BASS Live?    

 

There’s only 10 cameras and 100 boats 

 

they stare at the screen even on 2D 

[AlabamaSpothunter]

8 minutes ago, TnRiver46 said:

There’s only 10 cameras and 100 boats 

 

they stare at the screen even on 2D 

My point is, say they use it for the first three days given they have lots of luck without a camera, anybody who is trying to win the derby on the final day has a camera.  

 

You literally couldn't cheat with FFS in the top 10 on championship sundays.   Could they use it to maybe win AOY by top 10ing everything, maybe......but Marshalls, lie detector tests, and fellow competitors should keep FFS usage out of the competition if that's what they so desire.

 

I have trust in BASS to enforce rules, not the case with MLF.   

[gim]

2 hours ago, TnRiver46 said:

Nobody goes thru all the boats in a big bass tournament.

Well isn't that some BS.  Every single tournament here has a boat inspection prior to blast off.  Walleye, bass, muskie.  Live wells and storage compartments are inspected, and rules are enforced.  As they should be.

 

If the highest level of competitive bass fishing isn't enforcing their own rules, then every single win should have an asterisk next to it.

[TnRiver46]

14 minutes ago, gimruis said:

Well isn't that some BS.  Every single tournament here has a boat inspection prior to blast off.  Walleye, bass, muskie.  Live wells and storage compartments are inspected, and rules are enforced.  As they should be.

 

If the highest level of competitive bass fishing isn't enforcing their own rules, then every single win should have an asterisk next to it.

I could be wrong but usually it’s a livewell check and hammer down. They drive in the wee hours and launch 100 boats, it would take all day to look thru every plano 3700

 

the opens have so many boats people drive by water to blast off because the ramp can’t handle all the cluster. Needless to say I doubt anyone will be scuba diving underneath to look for live transducers

[AlabamaSpothunter]

Milliken had to take a polygraph after he won the Toledo Bend open.  

 

Spencer Shuffield had to take a polygraph after the MLF Cayuga clusterfudge....he failed it, and they DQ'd him.   

 

Will there be cheating in sports or life always......yes.   Should that stop the human race from trying to enact integrity and honesty into them, absolutely not! 

 

The lion's share of an Elite series guy's income is coming from sponsors, not moving up a couple places in an event to score a few extra grand.  

[Susky River Rat]

12 minutes ago, TnRiver46 said:

Needless to say I doubt anyone will be scuba diving underneath to look for live transducers

When they drive by you would see the transducer on the TM since it would not be in the water. 
 

I hate this concept of it’s not enforceable. You will always have people that cheat. You will always have people that break laws. Eventually it will catch up with them and someone will spill the beans.

 

I guess there are all kinds of people throwing A rigs with this logic. 

[gim]

19 minutes ago, TnRiver46 said:

Needless to say I doubt anyone will be scuba diving underneath to look for live transducers

You don't need to scuba dive under the boat to see if it's there.  A visual inspection of the boat is all that's required prior to blast off.  It can't be rigged up, it can't be in a compartment, in can't be in the angler's pocket.  They simply can't have it.  This isn't something that's the size of a quarter either.  Its not like someone could hide the pole and/or transducer at inspection and then hook it up while they were fishing on the water.

 

The PMTT is able to ban it and effectively enforce it.  Certainly a higher profile bass fishing tournament could do it.

 

There is a certain percentage of participants that are likely going to try and evade the rules as @AlabamaSpothunter stated.  If what you say is true, half the field is fishing with live bait during a tournament already.  I don't really buy that, but I'm not out there visually watching each angler either.  I am under the concept of "presumption of regularity" meaning that each participant is voluntary following the rules, until they aren't and get caught.  The pro walleye anglers on Lake Erie is a good example.  Probably cheated for years, but the only evidence found and what can be used is when they were caught.

[TnRiver46]

51 minutes ago, Darnold335 said:

When they drive by you would see the transducer on the TM since it would not be in the water. 
 

I hate this concept of it’s not enforceable. You will always have people that cheat. You will always have people that break laws. Eventually it will catch up with them and someone will spill the beans.

 

I guess there are all kinds of people throwing A rigs with this logic. 

Like I said, you can see someone throw an umbrella rig from 100 yards or better. Fujita has two live transducers on his jack plate, doesn’t have to be on a trolling motor 

 

51 minutes ago, gimruis said:

You don't need to scuba dive under the boat to see if it's there.  A visual inspection of the boat is all that's required prior to blast off.  It can't be rigged up, it can't be in a compartment, in can't be in the angler's pocket.  They simply can't have it.  This isn't something that's the size of a quarter either.  Its not like someone could hide the pole and/or transducer at inspection and then hook it up while they were fishing on the water.

 

The PMTT is able to ban it and effectively enforce it.  Certainly a higher profile bass fishing tournament could do it.

 

There is a certain percentage of participants that are likely going to try and evade the rules as @AlabamaSpothunter stated.  If what you say is true, half the field is fishing with live bait during a tournament already.  I don't really buy that, but I'm not out there visually watching each angler either.  I am under the concept of "presumption of regularity" meaning that each participant is voluntary following the rules, until they aren't and get caught.  The pro walleye anglers on Lake Erie is a good example.  Probably cheated for years, but the only evidence found and what can be used is when they were caught.

Ice fishermen can take a livescope on a little sled, plenty of room in a boat for such 

 

in 2022 , people were stuffing sinkers into fish. That’s quite literally the oldest trick in the book, y’all are just making my point for me. 

[Susky River Rat]

@TnRiver46 if we follow your logic why don’t we just not have any rules because they are to here to enforce