Kicking the dead horse - mono vs braid

[Long Mike]

Being an oldster who is just getting into bass fishing, I find this site to be a gold mine of information.  For this reason alone I owe all of you regulars and moderators my heartfelt thanks.

At this time in my learning curve I am not prepared to use BC equipment,  therfore all of my questions relate to open-faced spinning applications.

1.  From what I can gather from the postings of Fish Chris, he is as adverse to bait-casters as I am. and for the very same reasons.  i.e. He knows his limitations with this equipment, and I know not to even go there - yet.  However, I get the distinct impression that Fish Chris uses only braided line on his spinning reels.  Am I correct?

2.  My on-line research, especially the articles published on this site, indicates very little strong support for braided line, unless it is used on a bait-caster - and even then, there are very negative comments about the line becomming embedded in the spool of line.  Are these published articles up to date with current technology or are they several years old?

3.  Braided lines have a MUCH smaller cross section than a mono of of equal strength.  True or False?

4.  On a quality spinning reel, will a braided line have the same embedding problems as a bait-caster?

5.  Does a braided line have less "memory" than moo?

6. Finally, I have read that braided line is very abrasive to the line guides. Is this correct/  If so, is this such a long term issue that it is hardly worth bringing up?

[cart7t]

Being an oldster who is just getting into bass fishing, I find this site to be a gold mine of information.  For this reason alone I owe all of you regulars and moderators my heartfelt thanks.

At this time in my learning curve I am not prepared to use BC equipment,  therfore all of my questions relate to open-faced spinning applications.

1.  From what I can gather from the postings of Fish Chris, he is as adverse to bait-casters as I am. and for the very same reasons.  i.e. He knows his limitations with this equipment, and I know not to even go there - yet.  However, I get the distinct impression that Fish Chris uses only braided line on his spinning reels.  Am I correct?

If Chris is only using spinning equipment than he's obviously using braid on them. He seems pretty passioned about that.  BTW, I'm not sure what the problem is with anglers attempting to use baitcasters.  Todays reels are about as easy to learn on as they've ever been with the problems of backlash nearly non-existant if you spend a few hours in the back yard practice casting.

2.  My on-line research, especially the articles published on this site, indicates very little strong support for braided line, unless it is used on a bait-caster - and even then, there are very negative comments about the line becomming embedded in the spool of line.  Are these published articles up to date with current technology or are they several years old?

I've tried braid on spinning reels and didn't like it. Others don't feel that way.  It has it's time and place.  I'd suggest picking up a spool and rigging a rod with it and trying it out.  If you don't like it you're only out around $10-12.

3.  Braided lines have a MUCH smaller cross section than a mono of of equal strength.  True or False?

True

4.  On a quality spinning reel, will a braided line have the same embedding problems as a bait-caster?

Most embedding problems on baitcasters happen when you're pulling on a hung lure and occasionally on a hookset or the pull of a large fish.  It's a little less likely to happen on a spinning reel since the line passes over the bail but I suppose it can happen.

5.  Does a braided line have less "memory" than moo?

yes.  

6. Finally, I have read that braided line is very abrasive to the line guides. Is this correct/  If so, is this such a long term issue that it is hardly worth bringing up?

Those are issues long ago addressed by the rod and reel industry.  

[Grey Wolf]

#1      yes

#2       the smaller diameters of braided line will dig in on both bait-casters and spinning reels.

#3       yes it has a smaller diameter. ( 10 lb braid dia = 2 lb mono dia.)

#4       the smaller dia lines will.

#5       braid has no memory.

#6       no  problem on quality rods.

I use braid on my spinning gear 90% of the time and have no problems with it.

[roadwarrior]

There are three major drawbacks to using braid:

Visibility

For most largemouth bass water this is not an issue. For the most part, largemouth do not seem to be line shy. However, in some waters it seems like they are. Smallmouth, bigger trout and walley seem to be line shy. On several different occasions, even the line diameter has dramatically effected my smallmouth fishing.

Strength

Fishing on a river, from the bank or in a Kayak, the ability to break your line is important. No, I don't want to have a fish break my line, but when I am on a drift, especially when I am fishing with other men, I need to be able to break my line. Braid is difficult to break, can burn or cut you and will dig into the spool.

Abrasion resistance

Braid is very good at cutting through vegetation, but it will cut, fray and weaken when fished around rocks, ledges and ridges.

[senile1]

It appears your questions have been answered.  The only thing I can add is that I have noticed very little digging in with braid on spinning reels.  

[BucketmouthAngler13]

I have always used mono (8-12lb) on bolth spinning and casting. I fish alot of structure, such as rocks and logs, and the Trilene XL holds out against abraision very well. Alot of people worry about fish snapping their lines using lighter mono, but that is easily prevented by setting the drag right. I havn't had a fish snap my line in months.

My friend uses power pro braid. It seems strong, but i have noticed a few things about it:

Knots slip

Cuts hands

Isn't any more abrasion resisant that mono... (as far is i've seen)

Snags can break rods

I have no trouble landing fish with mono, not in the slighest. Mono is much less visable. It holds knots like a vice.

So i dont see why i should switch...

Yes, braid DOES have a place and time. But for the fishing i do and the budget i have, mono has never failed me.

[Guest whittler]

Mike, there is only one person that can answer those questions for you and that is you. If you have a spinning reel with two spools, put braid on one and mono on the other and see what works for your style of fishing. This debate takes place on every bass forum I visit, sometimes kind of heated, but in the end its your choice.

[Raul]

But there 's one little detail you 're forgetting, FC is hunting for those californy big mommas with swimbaits where line stretch ( to hook the fish ), hight tensile resistance ( to fight the fish and not having it breaking away ) and increased line capacity ( more line in case it wants to run ) are very important.

I fished with braid when it appeared in the market, didn 't like it a lil bit.

[Guest whittler]

I did say,"see if it works for your style of fishing" I did not say it is the only or the best option.

[Long Mike]

Many thanks for the input guys.  I think I'll take Whitler's advice and put braid on one spool and mono on the other.  I have used mono all my fishing life, but have become intrigued with the smaller diameter and zero memory of the braid.

Mike

[Fish Chris]

first off, I never tell anyone that "spinning gear is better, and that's what they should use". I use spinning gear 95% of the time because I am lousy with a baitcaster.

Cart7, you said you were'nt sure why people had problems with baitcasters. Well, I can't speak for them, but as for myself, I was born left handed and forced to be right handed, by old school parents who thought life would be easier that way. Huh ! All it did was completely whack out my hand-eye coordination. Heck, I can only use a spinning reel because I have practiced all of my life with them ! Even so, I'd only consider myself to be a mediocre caster, at best. Doesn't seem to have hurt me too much though.

Anyway, I swear one of these days I'm going to right an article on braided line. Granted, it will be the most opinionated article which has ever been written, in the history of mankind ! ;-)

Knots slip ? Geez, I tie bloodknots, improved clinches, and palomars, none of which EVER slip.

Braid can cut you, or break rods ? Not if you are smarter than your braided line. A sharp hook can stick you too, so be careful.

Braid is not as abrasion resistant, and is much more visible ? So use a high quality fluorocarbon leader to eliminate either of these potential problems.

Braid is hard to break off when you have to ? Not any harder than my 10 to 25 lb fluorocarbon leader makes it.

Braid floats ? I have flylined a night crawler in 20 feet of water, without so much as a split shot. This should tell you something.

Braid damages guides ? Never have any of the several different brands of braid that I have used in the last 13 years, damaged any of the rods I have used. Interestingly, some of the newer, super duper, titanium nitrided zirconium... (or whatever they call them) guides have caused some damage to my braided line. Replacing the tip guides with some of the more old school ceramic guides cured this.

Raul, you often to point to the big bass that I catch...... but remember, I fish for everything from Bluegill to Sturgeon. Plus, I catch a lot of smaller fish of each species too, not just the giants that I'm really after.

So anyway, sorry if I failed to adress anyones particular concerns about braided line.....

"Anyway it is my personal opinion" that braid is the best choice for 'nearly'* all fishing, for all species, from small fish up to giants, in freshwater, and even salt.

It is also my belief that many of the people who try braid, and hate it, simply never gave themselves enough of a chance to get over the hump..... which is probably a much bigger loss than they will ever realize.

Braid = fishing line

Mono = rubberband

Peace,

Fish

* the only situations in which I have ever found mono to be better than braid, is fluorescent mono, for black-light night-fishing, and 2 to 4 lb mono or fluoro for Crappie fishing.

PS, Again, please understand that this is simply my personal opinion...... albeit, probably the strongest opinion I have ever formed about anything fishing related.

[roadwarrior]

Fish Chris, You da Man!

But...I fished braid EXCLUSIVELY for striper for a couple of years and I don't fish it anymore because I didn't like it. Maybe I'm just looking at a very specific application, but fishing braid on a swift moving, big river did not work out for me even though I stuck with it and gave it an All American try.

That said, because of YOUR strong endorsement, I'm going to spool it up on one rod and give it another try fishing other techniques.

Thank you for addressing specific questions or comments. Your opinion is HIGHLY valued by me.

[Fish Chris]

ya' know, back in the day, I used to use a lot of 8 and 10 lb mono for Stripers which usally went 5 to 17 lbs, but I did catch a few bigger ones. The thing is, even as fanatical as I used to be about changing my mono every other trip, or even "every trip" if I had caught a few good ones on it, I still use to break fish off..... Like every 5th to 10th one or so, to the best of my memory. Sure, I could have gone to 15 or 20 lb mono, but I hated the coils and kinkiness of the best 8 or 10 lb mono I could buy, as it were, let alone stepping up to something twice as stiff and coily !

It's funny, nowadays I probably worry about my tackle (in general) as much as I ever did..... but I don't worry about my line very much anymore. Kind of hard to when you just 'never' break em' off anymore.

BTW, can you put your finger on what you did not like about the braid in fast moving water ??? Braided line, being much thinner than mono, creates less drag, and should give you less problems in moving water. I know I can certainly fish in deeper, tidally affected water, with less weight because of this.

Peace,

Fish

[boondocks]

I love braid for the sensitivity and strength and use it alot.I also do a lot of river walleye fishing in waders.I cast husky jerks out in the current and let the lure play the current and reel it in slow.The strikes are vicious.Especially for walleyes.When you do catch one you are not only fighting the fish but the current as well. When using the braided line I would lose alot of fish.I switched to mono, problem solved.Something I should note here is the rod I was using was a stiffer 6ft model and I'm sure that had a lot to do with it.A longer rod is a good idea for braided lines IMO.Being there is no stretch.

[MickD]

I use braid on both bait casting and spinning, and love it.  The primary reason I use it has been given very little empahsis on this forum, and that is that it has little or no stretch.  Therefore, bites are very much easier to feel on jigging, and hook sets are very much more reliable on bait casting with spinner baits and crankbaits.  If it were not for this advantage of braid, I would very much be pleased with using mono.

I am willing to put up with the hassle of tying on a fleuro leader to my braid, and retying it every now and then as it becomes compromised by constantly going through the guides, in order to get that really solid feel of braid.

I use 10-30 pound braid on spinning, and 25-65 pound on BC depending on the reels and what I'm fishing for and what reels I'm using.

[Fish Chris]

Hey Dane, you are absolutely correct. I think everybody is assuming that everybody else knows that braid has almost zero stretch, and very high sensitivity. Even the guys that don't like braid can't argue with that.

So here's one that I almost never hear mentioned (unless I mention it :-) Did you guys know that braided line will make a drag system perform 10X's better than mono ??? Here's why; Mono, having so much stretch, will build up a whole bunch of energy as it stretches, then, when the drag finally breaks loose, it will slip a whole bunch as the stretch takes itself up. As soon as it does, it will stick, and the stretching will begin again. This buildup, and letting loose, then building, then letting loose again, is called "drag surge", and it is virtually non-existent with braid. Geez, I use to hate drag surge.

Peace,

Fish

[0119]

Fish Chris,  Many of your points seem to be what I consider the negatives to superline.   Having to use a leader for one.   The water I bass fish in are just as full of tarpon and snook as they are bass.   They are very line shy compared to bass.   Every knot to set up a leader seems bulky and affects casting performance going through the guides.   Not to mention my eyes just find knot tying difficult.   Another is fishing treble hooked baits.  Have you had to go to lighter action or I should say, more moderately actioned rods to avoid ripping hooks out of bass during the fight?   Thirdly knowing you fish saltwater too, have you experienced salt or silt lodging itself in the line and occupying your spool?

[Fish Chris]

first off, one wouldn't "have" to use a mono, or fluorocarbon leader with braid. I used straight braid for several years, and never had any real problems because of it...... Just those "in the back of my mind" things.

Mono / fluoro just have several properties which make them enough "more suitable" as a leader, than is braided line, that it is well worth it to me, to add that one connection, in the form of a well tied blood knot. {although not every knot I tie is "well tied" :-), as I have mentioned on this forum before, when I do tie a bad knot, I ALWAYS recognize it, and retie it, before it ever makes it to the water} I typically tie my leaders short enough that I don't have to repeatedly cast the knot through my guides...... But in situations where I wanted a longer leader, I have found that a well tied blood knot is much more durable ripping through guides than one might suspect. Least wise, I have NEVER had a knot fail because of this.

As for silt lodging itself in the line, whether it be in salt water of fresh....... Believe it or not, I have even contemplated this too. First, to answer your question specifically, no, I have never had fresh, clean line get dirty, then not fit back on my spool...... and second (my bigger personal concern) I have never noticed that potentially abrasive dirt particles caused my braided line to break down, to the failure point, any quicker than my braid used in gin clear waters..... And believe me, when you use "white" braided line as often as I do, this could not be easier to recognize.

Lighter rods ? Kind of, sort of. I have always used lighter action rods than most guys anyway, I guess. I kind of prefer a rod to have a slower, more parabolic bend, which theoretically should be better / more forgiving, when used in conjuction with a non-stretch braided line...... but a well set (read: lighter) drag, will do much more to protect you from straightened hooks, hook rip-outs, broken line, broken rods, etc, than anything else. For smaller treble hooks, or for fish with softer mouths, run a lighter drag.

Anything else ?

Peace,

Fish

[Guest avid]

Anything else ?

Ummmmmmmmmmmmm.....................................What's braid?

[0119]

Nope, nothing else.  Thanks for letting me pluck your brain.  I'm trying my 'darndest' to like super line enough to use it more than a fleeting try.