Understanding pricing of blanks

[Smirak]

Not sure if the title actually conveys what I’m asking. And it’s totally for my benefit whatsoever. 
 

I like my st croix mojo bass rods quite well. That said, their blanks on rodgeeks (carbon 2 series) are like $60-70. Im not questioning their pricing (complete rod from at croix) as I’ve bought a few. What I’m trying to understand is rodgeeks blank for $60 equates to a $160 rod. What would a $200 blank equate to?

 

I need to build a crankbait rod, but am unsure if a good blank to build off. I’m looking to keep the blank around $100, preferably in the $70 ish range. I don’t have a problem spending money, but being my second only build, I’m still trying to work on the epoxy of the guides to get them how I like it, so I don’t want to spend $150+ on a blank only to have my guide wraps look like ****. 

[MikeK]

What specific problems are you having with finish?

[spoonplugger1]

Pretty simple really, a rod has guides, grips, reel seats, epoxy finish and thread, epoxy adhesives bought, about 30 people handing it before it is sacked up, than you have to store it, ship it, warranty it, and the whole time people are being paid, equipment is being repaired as necessary, carbon rolls are being taken out of refrigerated storage and then put back in at the same time you have to heat or cool the buildings in the great white north. Phone, internet, electricity, office supplies, computers, boxes, tubes, a forklift or two I bet, etc. All this and a Chinese made blank from Rainshadow and others cost how much?

[Smirak]

4 hours ago, MikeK said:

What specific problems are you having with finish?

Lumpy, just not a good enough job paying attention while applying it is the most logical answer.

2 hours ago, spoonplugger1 said:

Pretty simple really, a rod has guides, grips, reel seats, epoxy finish and thread, epoxy adhesives bought, about 30 people handing it before it is sacked up, than you have to store it, ship it, warranty it, and the whole time people are being paid, equipment is being repaired as necessary, carbon rolls are being taken out of refrigerated storage and then put back in at the same time you have to heat or cool the buildings in the great white north. Phone, internet, electricity, office supplies, computers, boxes, tubes, a forklift or two I bet, etc. All this and a Chinese made blank from Rainshadow and others cost how much?

Thanks. Perhaps my question wasn’t clear. I wasn’t specifically asking what makes a $60 blank a $160 rod. I was asking if a $60 blank equates to a $160 completed rod, then what does say a $150 blank equate to?

[MikeK]

Try two thin coats of finish.  First coat applied quickly and brushed into threads so you can still see thread texture.  Let cure long enough to be able to shave off any thread stickups.  Second coat applied quickly to flow out and completely cover thread texture then just let it level itself.

 

To complicate your question about blank prices, it costs St. Croix way less than $60 to produce that blank for the $160 rod.

[Chris Catignani]

For what its worth, I have a couple MHX blanks I build on for crank baits.
CB841 for rattletraps and square bills and CB843 for deeper stuff like 300 series bandits.

MHX Crankbait & Swimbait Rod Blanks - Free Shipping | MudHole.com

[Alex from GA]

To answer your question a $150 blank computes to a $300 plus rod.  Super sensitive and light weight.  These rods are almost all for bottom contact baits.  That being said a crankbait rod doesn't need an expensive blank.  As to your finishing problem Flex Coat has probably the best videos for rod building.  When you apply finish be sure the rod is not tilted.

[uno]

Mojo bass is an SCIII blank now, so the blank price is more than $60. And mojos are made in Mexico, same as the rodgeeks blanks. Just like everything else, blanks are priced at what people will pay. Components also make a big difference. You can get a $10 set of guides or a $100 set of guides. Good cork is very expensive. You can't save money building rods equivalent to complete rods less than $150 or so. You can build a $500 rod for $250. The $60 blank goes in a $100 bassX rod.

[spoonplugger1]

I thought I answered it, maybe a bit convoluted, the $60 blank has extra stuff done to it to makes it worth the extra $100 to people, buying all the same components retail, you would be near that and it's still in pieces. You can't just look at modulus numbers and select the best value, the amount of carbon materials that make good rod blanks are very limited, the reason Daiwa and many others just love IM7 which has been available since the 80's. It's the improvements in the binders that bind the fibers together, called prepeg when infused into the carbon sheet, where the magic happens for the last decade+. These improvements made the need for a mesh of fiberglass or paper carbon scrim for hoop strength unnecessary for new rods, this automatically increases the linear fibers overall modulus because the final modulus is the ratio of linear fibers to the horizontal low modulus materials and binder used to improve the blanks hoop strength. The new binders are way more expensive than the old stuff and the layup of fibers in the no scrim materials are far denser reducing the amount of heavy binder to light fibers. The expensive blanks from NFC and others aren't your dad's, or even your first bought rod/blanks. The difference is night and day.

Now back to what rod you will get, using NFC as an example, their high end blanks have no scrim, the most recent materials and binders, US made materials throughout including the reel seats, grips and guides. The reason for expensive blanks and finished rod prices. Look at the price for REC guides, Fuji titanium Torzite guides, etc. high end blanks get high end materials throughout the build, many have to be put together by hand and set aside before installation while the lesser materials are slapped on quickly as a unit.

[twofishy4u]

If I were you I'd probably get an MHX blank.  I feel there standard line is pretty equal to scII and scIII depending on which one you get.  There kits are pretty descent too.  For a crankbait rod I'd also consider the CRB line they have.  I've built plenty of rods on these as a lot of these blanks have a mod-fast action for cranking and I like them for live bait fishing too.  I've had great luck with CRB guide kits also.   SSR, performance and elite.  I don't like there standard guides for spinning stuff at all....too heavy and lower frames.  A blank like the is701 is a medium mod-fast and would handle cranks well.  Also can get in colors and it's nice and light for a 7' medium at 1.61 ounces.  Around 40-45 dollars for this blank.  

[Smirak]

Thanks all for every response. I’m now considering an X-Ray from NFC. Looking at either the MB724 or the MB736 (I know it’s a MH, but…)

 

trying to decide between split grip cork and Winn. I think I’m leaning towards Winn. CRB elites and a regular ole $6 reel seat…

[Delaware Valley Tackle]

There is no direct and consistent correlation between blank cost and over the counter equivalent. Don’t even waste your time trying to get your head around that train of thought. 

[Smirak]

*edited to add*
 

it’s the SJ725 actually…

[MickD]

8 hours ago, Smirak said:

regular ole $6 reel seat…

Strongly consider using a size 17 and not a 16.  The larger diameter fits most hands better and is more comfortable on a long day on the water.  My thumb to little finger span is 9 inches and I simply don't use size 16 spin seats any more.  Check yours and see what your span is.  Then decide.

[Smirak]

11 hours ago, MickD said:

Strongly consider using a size 17 and not a 16.  The larger diameter fits most hands better and is more comfortable on a long day on the water.  My thumb to little finger span is 9 inches and I simply don't use size 16 spin seats any more.  Check yours and see what your span is.  Then decide.

Thanks Mick. I just checked and I’m at 9” as well…. If you use a 17 on spin seats, do you still use a 17 on casting seats?

[MickD]

No.  The only difference between 16 and 17 casting seats is the diameter of the bore for the blank.  So it depends on the blank which you use.  (Maybe the hood nut might be a different size, I don't know)  I use Fuji ACSM seats which have specific bore sizes for your blanks.  If you look at the specs for 16's, they go up to a specific diameter.  If your blank is larger than that, then you go to the 17 set and select the bore size to match your blank.  The rear of both is the same diameter to match casting grips.  https://anglersresource.net/product_categories/casting-reel-seats/

No.  The only difference between 16 and 17 casting seats is the diameter of the bore for the blank.  So it depends on the blank which to use.  (Maybe the hood nut might be a different size, I don't know)  I use Fuji ACSM seats which have specific bore sizes for your blanks.  If you look at the specs for 16's, they go up to a specific diameter.  If your blank is larger than that, then you go to the 17 set and select the bore size to match your blank.  The rear of both is the same diameter to match casting grips.  

 

[papajoe222]

I've built four cranking sticks, three for myself and one for a family member   They're all MHX blanks and are very good rods. However, I used a St.Croix Legend Elite series 7'6" MH/MF for deep cranking and if I were to build another cranking rod, I'd check into getting that blank. 

[Smirak]

Thanks again all.

 

mick - PM inbound…

[spoonplugger1]

Pipe reel seat size has nothing to do with blank diameter, it's ergonomics, or comfort while fishing all day that beats blank size always. A simple observation and test for everyone. What is the diameter of your screwdriver grips? Your hammers, axes, rifles, any other object you want to hold in your hand comfortably all day? I bet it isn't 16 mm. Go to your school yard and hang from the monkey bars, which is more comfortable for you to hang from, the rungs or the side rails? Ergonomics at work. Ergonomics allows all the functions we do fishing to be done at the highest level, like it has been proved to increase productivity and lessen injuries in the work place and military grips, tools and handles, etc. I have average palm size, but short fingers, I still pick at least a 20 mm seat, and have used 22 mm on occasion. A 20 mm seat will fit any spinning or casting reel I have ever owned, big or small, fresh or salt. 22 mm can be a bit long in some designs to hold all reel foot sizes. A 16 mm pipe seat is great for holding a fly reel and little else. When using an Am Tack Aero seat I use the 17 mm version for two reasons, it's 1/10th inch larger and every standard size cork, eva, carbon grip in existence for your casting seats also fits the Aero unlike the 16 mm version, one less thing to order or worry about come building time.

[1984isNOW]

@spoonplugger1 Spoon, my dude, just droppin straight gold nuggets of knowledge on us. Wish I knew that before I ordered 3 size 16 Aero seats, two of them being the carbon version.

 

So you use casting grips for your Aero spinning rods?

 

[spoonplugger1]

Kites, The Aero seat in whatever size has a rear little pocket in it that hides a bit of the grip end so it makes it less important what the end of the cork looks like, the shallow tenon found on many grips to fit inside the back pocket of a trigger seat is hidden by the Aero pocket, or you can simply remove it, it also makes it handy when it comes time to maybe shorten a longer grip to meet your immediate needs, you can always use what is left as a foregrip or other purpose after shaping. The 16 mm Aero seat by the way fits carbon tube grips with a .920" interior. Right now Mudhole has some Kevlar tubing with a 3K nice deep red/black pattern that fits the 16 mm Aero perfectly, gives a great slick butt grip for kayak vertical or horizontal rod holders and the price is right. It's just nice to look at also.

[Delaware Valley Tackle]

I like the Kevlar tubing. I had a TN handle ML drop shot rod built with one. Everyone who saw it or tried it like it so much I caved and sold it.  

[Mbirdsley]

not to be off topic but, what would a st.croix premier rod be from rod geeks? a sc2 series blank? 

[1984isNOW]

Put it this way, for the price of a premier rod you could build a Victory... so yes technically

[MickD]

On 9/13/2023 at 8:30 AM, Smirak said:

I need to build a crankbait rod,

For crankbaits you do not need an expensive blank.  Many anglers prefer a slower action, slower recovery speed, even glass instead of graphite, so the blanks can be very affordable and work just fine.