Co-angler deep water strategy?

[Koz]

Here's the setup: I was fishing an MLF event on Lanier this past weekend (not team fishing) and the boater wanted to run and gun deep water (30-60 feet deep) spots all over the lake and fish brush piles and humps. I can see the contour map on the console, and most of the time my targets are wastelands while he's live target fishing.

 

He's not using spot lock, and we're constantly on the move, so throwing a drop shot or shaky head off the back or sides doesn't give the bait a ton of time to get down there and I'm just dragging the bait. In a past tournament, I tossed a Carolina rig and let it drag around and caught one, but that boater also had 360 and kept casting on top of my bait when he saw fish in my area.

 

What do you do here? Do you ask the boater if you can cast over the bow and potentially poach his catch?  Do you ask him to approach the brush pile from the side of the boat and maybe so you both have a shot? Do you ask the boater to set the console to side imaging so you can maybe pick up some structure in the deep water?

 

I fan casted all day with top waters, covered water with crankbaits and lipless cranks, tossed big flutter spoons hoping to attract something off the brush pile, and still tried drop shots. I also made a rig where I pegged a 3/4 oz weight 8-12 inches above a shaky head so it got to the bottom quickly and I had a little time to work the bait.

 

I'm not a fan of fishing deep water, but I'll attack it out on my kayak and I can catch fish.

 

I'm perfectly fine with the boater doing his own thing. My question is to address my shortcomings and understand the etiquette here regarding being able to take advantage of the live targeting off the front of the boat.

 

How do you approach this scenario?

[Woody B]

If I were going as a co angler, non team fishing I'd sit back and learn from the guy on the front of the boat.  There's no way I'd cast on top of him, or even toward the front of the boat.  He's got skin in the game.   

[GaryH]

Communication is the key. Try to find out as much as you can from the boater as to what to expect so you can be prepared. If he or she is not willing to discuss, then just make it a learning tool for yourself as to what not to do when you’re the boater. You will experience both type of boaters while your back seating. Ones that are willing to help and those that don’t really care what you think.  And for your one question about casting over the boater, definitely No. Best rule of thumb is never cast past the driver’s console.  Hope you have better luck on your next tournament Koz. 

[TnRiver46]

Blade bait or non flutter spoon get down very quickly 

[Team9nine]

17 hours ago, Koz said:

Do you ask the boater to set the console to side imaging so you can maybe pick up some structure in the deep water?

Something along this line seems like the best option. I checked the rules, and this statement is still in there:

 

 “Any boater that, in the judgment of the tournament director, operates the boat in such a manner that unfairly handicaps his/her co-angler and any co-angler who unfairly handicaps his/her boater may be disqualified for that day.“

 

Back in the day, and to force the issue when necessary, after making a request similar to the above option, if the boater still chose not to throw the back seat guy a bone, a reminder of this rule, along with a mention that you will refuse to sign his weigh-in ticket (do they still require that?), was usually all it took to get some assistance. In the worst cases, just sitting down, stop fishing, and having something to eat while reminding the boater he is wasting his time fishing since you’ll be filing an official protest when you get back in usually resolved the issue, though made for an unhappy boater. I had one friend who made the boater take him to shore and then left the event midday to make the point. He never fished another event after that - lol.

[WRB]

Ask to join the boater front!

Tom

[Koz]

On 8/27/2023 at 6:47 PM, Woody B said:

If I were going as a co angler, non team fishing I'd sit back and learn from the guy on the front of the boat.  There's no way I'd cast on top of him, or even toward the front of the boat.  He's got skin in the game.   

Learn what? Stare at live target all day and cast where you see fish?

 

Sorry, but there's nothing to learn in that situation.

10 hours ago, TnRiver46 said:

Blade bait or non flutter spoon get down very quickly 

I tossed small, medium and big flutter spoons hoping to lure the spotted bass off the brush pile. It didn't work.

[Koz]

10 hours ago, Team9nine said:

 “Any boater that, in the judgment of the tournament director, operates the boat in such a manner that unfairly handicaps his/her co-angler and any co-angler who unfairly handicaps his/her boater may be disqualified for that day.“

 

I know that rule and thought about it. I think what I am going to do is call the tournament director and ask their opinion on the matter. They boater was a nice kid and in no way was he being a jerk about anything.

 

I think that it's probably a fine line between being unfairly handicapped and the nature of the beast fishing deep water. 

 

That being said, out of 135 co-anglers there were about 66 that caught ZERO fish that day.

 

Conditions were brutal out there with the heat and the boat traffic.

 

Ideally, I think that in these tournaments if a boater is fishing deep structure that they should parallel the structure and give the co-angler a chance. 

5 hours ago, WRB said:

Ask to join the boater front!

Tom

Unfortunately, that's illegal in MLF tournaments.

[WRB]

Hmmmm...then cast 5’ to one side of the front seater, is that illegal when the front seater can cast back over your end of the boat?

Tom

[J Francho]

Meh, this why I only ever did team formats. 

[Woody B]

8 hours ago, Koz said:

Learn what? Stare at live target all day and cast where you see fish?

 

Sorry, but there's nothing to learn in that situation.

 

There's always something to learn.   

[Koz]

20 hours ago, WRB said:

Hmmmm...then cast 5’ to one side of the front seater, is that illegal when the front seater can cast back over your end of the boat?

Tom

I've had boaters using 360 and live scope cast right on top of my bait when fishing off shore. Completely aggravating.

 

I think the real solution is to just go out and buy a boat. It's going to have to wait a bit though, I just bought a new Bronco and I'm in the middle of buying a new house.

[WRB]

Back in the day draw partners had the option to operate the front of the boat as if you were the owner half the fishing hours. We used a coin toss to determine who got the 1st half of the day. The other rule was 1/2 the circle from the driver seat 180 degrees belonged to the front seater operating the boat. The back seater had the second 1/2 circle to the rear. 

You could cast forward if the front seater agreed. 

May need to revise the rules or fish a different circuit otherwise you are simply observing not competitive fishing.

Tom

[Big Hands]

On 8/28/2023 at 8:14 AM, TnRiver46 said:

Blade bait or non flutter spoon get down very quickly 

 

On 8/28/2023 at 6:46 PM, Koz said:

I tossed small, medium and big flutter spoons hoping to lure the spotted bass off the brush pile. It didn't work.

 

Non flutter spoons =/= flutter spoons

 

1/4, 3/8 & 1/2 ounce slabs like a Hopkins, Luhr Jensen crippled herring, Kastmaster or better yet, the slabs Joe Spaits makes and sells (not his famous flutter spoons, but actual slabs). Maybe even an ice jig or a Little George.

 

 

[TnRiver46]

^those are what I was thinking! 

[J Francho]

Hopkins Shorty is a go to up here. 

[flatcreek]

I’ve fished Lanier since I was a kid.It’s a great bass fishing lake 9 months out of the year but these days I wouldn’t go near (Oceanier) we call it during the summer time.As @koz said conditions were brutal with boat traffic and heat.That lake is rough as a cobb in August and dangerous to boot.If I had to fish it i’d run up the river and try my luck with largemouth.No wonder so many zeros.

[Koz]

1 hour ago, flatcreek said:

If I had to fish it i’d run up the river and try my luck with largemouth.No wonder so many zeros.

If I was running the boat I would have at least spent the morning fishing for largemouth. Because of the heat and the tough fishing conditions they changed it from a 5 fish limit to a 3 fish limit.

 

With that, I'd rather take the chance in the morning for 2 or 3 four or five pound LMB than the smaller spotted bass. In pre-fishing, we found big schools of small spotted bass, but even then not a lot of bites.

[rangerjockey]

I think there will be less co anglers with FFS getting used so much. It really becomes a waste of money unless you just want to go along for the ride. It sure isn't a guide trip .

 What was he throwing ?

[Koz]

2 hours ago, rangerjockey said:

I think there will be less co anglers with FFS getting used so much. It really becomes a waste of money unless you just want to go along for the ride. It sure isn't a guide trip .

 What was he throwing ?

Same stuff I was, mostly relying on a topwater popper. That's what he caught his fish on.

 

When I do this next year I'm going to be more selective and fish the largemouth lakes instead of spotted base lakes, even if it means I have to travel and enter the Florida events. Unless I buy a boat and become a boater next year.

 

Or maybe I'll skip the tournaments and just fish with my buddy @flatcreek instead. We'll have more fun.

[Woody B]

Koz, I'm not going to be in any tournament, but come on up the NC one weekend.   I'll take you fishing.  You can have the front of my boat including my sonar.   

[flatcreek]

Koz you know u can fish with me anytime next Spring but I realize my tournament days are over.i just had 4 level lumbar fusion in June and it’s a game changer.i’ll miss the competition but I look forward to slowing down and fishing for fun.I hope you can get the boat suitable for you so you can compete at the boater position because you have the competitive fire.Tight lines!

[Koz]

On 8/30/2023 at 6:40 PM, Woody B said:

Koz, I'm not going to be in any tournament, but come on up the NC one weekend.   I'll take you fishing.  You can have the front of my boat including my sonar.   

I will take you up on that sometime. Thank you.

On 8/30/2023 at 8:35 PM, flatcreek said:

Koz you know u can fish with me anytime next Spring but I realize my tournament days are over.i just had 4 level lumbar fusion in June and it’s a game changer.i’ll miss the competition but I look forward to slowing down and fishing for fun.I hope you can get the boat suitable for you so you can compete at the boater position because you have the competitive fire.Tight lines!

We don't need to fish tournaments except maybe a few of those team club events in our area. We're bound to win one someday.

 

BTW, I'm looking at a rental home on Sinclair this week complete with dock. This was kind of last minute as I was just about close close on buying some new build construction off the lake. I looked at buying a home on Sinclair or Oconee, but everything in my price range required too much work to fix it up.