A few more questions…

[Smirak]

As I’m nearing the end of my first build, I have a couple of things that I still am not sure of/don’t know/etc…

 

1) probably most importantly, does pro kote thread finish have any stink to it (like “regular” 5 min epoxy)? Trying to figure out the best place to have my setup for drying.

 

2) most of my starting end wraps seem to be loose. Like some have even come unraveled and I had to start over. No big deal because I like the mundaneness of it. Takes my mind off of negative thoughts…anyway, it doesn’t seem to matter how many wraps I cover my tag end with, sometimes, they are very loose. The finish end is really tight however. Am I doing something wrong?

 

3) I think I know, but was curious…if I put an under wrap on and then wrapped my hook keeper on that, the under wrap isn’t epoxied first, is it? Meaning, I epoxy all that at once, correct?

 

4) best way with no special tool to make sure guides are in alignment.

 

Thanks again!

Kevin

[Delaware Valley Tackle]

Thread tension is adjusted on your wrapper and I pull the first 10-12 tight before snipping the tag end.  How tight comes with experience. Goal is for wraps to be tight enough that it takes firm finger pressure to move and adjust guides.  Finish epoxy has some odor and ventilation is always a good idea but it’s not noxious.  A spare room, den or office is best bet if you’re in the house.  I’ve never used an under wrap on a bass rod but no need to epoxy each layer separately. Guide alignment is best done by eye. The laser tool is useless. I use the foot and stem tool in the seat to get first guide and tip top lined up then eyeball the others. 

[Smirak]

Thanks much. 
 

I’ll adjust and see if it makes a difference. I thought it was tight enough, but I’ll play around. 
 

thanks for epoxy answer

 

underwrap was just because I wanted to. 
 

lined them up by eye too…

[MickD]

Underwrap on a keeper is functionally not necessary.  Underwrap on most guides is also functionally not necessary.   I've built a lot of fresh water rods, never had a failure that an underwrap would have prevented, never used an underwrap.  

 

I have never noticed any odor from any wrap finish.  Yes, from adhesive epoxies, but even them are not really bad enough for me to worry about.  I don't notice it unless I stick my nose right up to the jar. 

 

I agree that your loose ends problem is associated with insufficient tension and/or not enough covering wraps.  Probably more tension.

[Chris Catignani]

I have also noticed a smell from ProKote...pretty weird.
If you hold the rod at a 45 degree angle, you can see the rod through the guide rings. Do this in front of a window or light background.

 

In cases where the guide is too small and your not able to see the inside of the guide.

You can see that the guide is symmetrically centered with equidistant space on each side of the rod.

 

 

[MikeK]

Don't know your exact setup or routine . . .

 

I have three different wrappers and all apply the tension to the thread spool and then run the thread through a ring on the end of a flexible tension rod.  Lets me gauge the tension, keep tension on the wrap even with hands removed, and backup a few turns if needed.

 

I start a wrap with good tension, pack or move the initial wraps almost none especially up the blank, and make about a dozen wraps over the tag end before cutting the tag.

[Smirak]

Thanks all. The underwrap is for aesthetics only. I had an issue trying to figure out trim wraps as well, but I think I got it. I use a method where I wrap the thread around my finger and then back through (nail knot maybe?) if there’s a different method I should try, let me know.

[MickD]

Nail knot is the easiest for me as long as it is about 4 wraps.  I can get three with most metallics.  A tip that will help is to put a dab of CP onto the knot before cutting off the ends.  This will stabilize the knot somewhat preventing it from unravelling when the cutting of the ends is done.  Also, I think you'll find using a small dowel or similar instrument like a small paint brush handle will work better than wrapping around the finger.  Give it a try.  

 

 

 

[casts_by_fly]

On 8/27/2023 at 6:38 AM, MickD said:

I have never noticed any odor from any wrap finish.  Yes, from adhesive epoxies, but even them are not really bad enough for me to worry about.  I don't notice it unless I stick my nose right up to the jar. 

 

Ever use permagloss?  I know we're talking about a solvent based finish now, but you definitely smell it...  That's one you want a bit of ventilation for.

 

[MickD]

3 minutes ago, casts_by_fly said:

 

Ever use permagloss?  I know we're talking about a solvent based finish now, but you definitely smell it...  That's one you want a bit of ventilation for.

 

Yes, I've used it to get a gloss finish on a blank and used it (because it is so thin and light) on the reinforcing wraps of external sleeve rod repairs.  Good stuff, but yes, you want good ventilation.  I have never used it to stabilize a nail knot.  CP is always on my bench, easy to use, and most of the time I will be using it on the main wrap so a pinch of it on the nail knot that might get into the main wrap isn't a problem.  

[Smirak]

Another question…

 

how long should I wait between coats of thread finish? Also, how do I get a really level second coat because I have some dips in the first coat.

 

thanks again for everything!

kevin

[MickD]

I always wait overnight, but with Pro Kote that might even be a little early.  It doesn't need to be totally cured, but should not be tacky, IMHO.  I think the biggest issue causing wavy finish is excessive finish applied.  I use Gen 4 lite or Flex Coat lite and apply it what many might call sparingly, usually needing two coats.  But my wraps are straight, flat, no footballs, look very good.  Try cutting back on how much you are applying. 

 

You can carefully sand them level and apply another coat, keeping it just enough to get the gloss of wet epoxy over the whole area of the wrap.  

 

On some blanks excessive epoxy can add enough weight to slow the recovery speed of the blank.  There is a reason to keep it minimal besides the football appearance.  So keep your wraps no longer than necessary (about 1/16 inch past the foot is all you need) and don't overload with epoxy.  

[MikeK]

2 hours ago, Smirak said:

Another question…

 

Also, how do I get a really level second coat because I have some dips in the first coat.

 

 

My process . . .

apply finish to completely cover wrap

get all wraps done quickly

use warming heat to allow excess to sag for removal (optional)

don't mess with finish once applied

allow to turn until remainder in dish is almost tack free

[Alex from GA]

Cut off the handle from a junk spinning reel and grind/file it to a knife edge to line up the guides.  If you have a dryer and don't use too much finishing epoxy you shouldn't get uneven or sagging guides.  Also if your dryer isn't level it will sag.