Big Pickerel=Big Bass?

[1984isNOW]

Does the size of other species indicate a likelihood of larger bass? Obviously the ecosystem is healthy enough to sustain big predators, but they're not all doing the same stuff.

 

Is there a correlation to size of all species in an ecosystem? Of course there are different variables like preferred habitat for each species etc, but I just mean in general.

[Susky River Rat]

It depends on a few things. Genes, structure/cover, and food. The short answer is yes you could correlate big pickerel could equal big bass. My guess is if you have big pickerel you’d have a slightly smaller population of bass with good genes and better size.

[Scott804]

Well today I was on a grass line loaded with miniature pickerel and a bunch of dinkers. So I anecdotally I guess you can atleast equate small pickerel to small bass, maybe. 

[MIbassyaker]

I'm sure this depends on lots of other factors, but here the presence of above-average size pike (not just a bunch of little snot rockets) sure seems to be related to better largemouth sizes.  The reason is probably that they eat enough young largemouth to prevent the population from becoming stunted. Stunting happens often especially in small waters when there is overabundance of small bass competing for food.  If your pickerel are large enough to thin out the population of smaller bass, it may have a similar effect. 

[1984isNOW]

4 hours ago, MIbassyaker said:

If your pickerel are large enough to thin out the population of smaller bass, it may have a similar effect.

Hope I didn't hurt the poor bastad then haha, he ripped a hole in my net and i hadn't been on my kayak in a while. It was an awkward endeavor unhooking the thrashing jerk and it took a little longer than I had hoped, plus I know their boney jaws can be fragile.

 

Thanks for sharing your thoughts yall

[Swamp Girl]

It's a great question and I think the answer is yes. I fished a new pond last week and I caught thick pickerel and thick bass. Here's are three of them and some of the pickerel were thick enough that they fought like big bass:

 

[gim]

On 8/20/2023 at 5:07 PM, MIbassyaker said:

I'm sure this depends on lots of other factors, but here the presence of above-average size pike (not just a bunch of little snot rockets) sure seems to be related to better largemouth sizes.  The reason is probably that they eat enough young largemouth to prevent the population from becoming stunted. Stunting happens often especially in small waters when there is overabundance of small bass competing for food.  If your pickerel are large enough to thin out the population of smaller bass, it may have a similar effect. 

I would generally agree with this.  Quite often in these smaller systems, big pike are the top apex predator (in the absence of muskies).  No big pike presence allows smaller pike (and bass) to go unchecked, as big pike are a natural predator and most predators are cannibalistic, so they will eat their own smaller kind.

 

All the more reason to release sizable northern pike.

[GetFishorDieTryin]

Locally there's a correlation.  The bodies of water that can support large numbers of large (2.5lb+) pickerel have the healthiest bass around.  Its the lakes and ponds with out of control numbers of small and stunted pickerel where bass seem to struggle for resources.  There are plenty of other variables that make a good ecosystem for big bass besides large pickerel.  Afterall, pickerel are the only species of fish that can survive in the highly acidic ponds, streams and bogs of the pine barrens.  The presence of large black crappie in numbers is a good indication as well.  Crappie being a schooling fish, depend on large numbers of smaller baitfish.  If there's plenty of forage for large numbers of big crappie to thrive, then there should be ample food for bass.  Crappie seem to be a delicate balance in an ecosystem.  You want enough so there's another species that can sustain larger fish, but too many will wipe out large amounts of fry, as a school of crappie can eat thousands in no time.

Jumbo yellow perch are a good indicator of a healthy ecosystem as well.  Much like large pickerel, good jumbo yellow perch fishing is seasonal.  The more quality aforementioned species a body of water has the more likely that body of water can sustain large bass.  One of the first local lakes that comes to mind that has a health population of quality specimens of all 3 species is the lake "Ike" decided to build a house on, which he refers to as "Lake X"

 

[Pat Brown]

The ponds that produce my biggest fish have beavers, giant snapping turtles, gar and otters.

 

All of these threats produce very healthy and large bass.  You don't see a ton of big head small body on that pond.

 

The fish are all built like football players with large bodies and smaller heads.

 

The lakes I fish, seems like the bass have to work harder to compete for food and I'm more likely to run into on that looks off.

 

Big predators that shouldn't technically be there if you want ZERO bass killed, but if you like a healthy population of bass and nobody is culling.... stunting is a thing for sure.  Big predators help IMHO.

[MassBass]

The habitat preference of pickerel and largemouth mostly overlap, but on one end you have largemouth which will often go to main lake, open water spots, and with pickerel they will go even further into the weeds than largemouth, shallow swamps, back of marinas, etc. When they are together they will go for the same prey, I agree that in lakes with a lot of good cover and a consistent forage base you see quality pickerel and big bass. Usually it is a lake big enough to naturally resist overpopulating and stunting. The stunted pickerel can be a real problem in some ponds. I have a theory it may be due to years of poor eel runs. 

[1984isNOW]

Eelllsss???

[WRB]

A Healthy ecosystem produces quality fish.

Tom

[MassBass]

9 hours ago, Kites R4 Skyfishing said:

Eelllsss???

If you look at the native range of the chain pickerel, it overlaps the densist part of the American eels' migration. In the old days there was always a connection between big pickerel and eels. In ponds known for big pickerel, the eels were so numerous that they could be caught through the ice on live minnows. That is unheard of today. There is also stories of people seeing the eels and their slime trails in the woods, on their migratory crusade. Further evidence I think is how pickerel react so aggressively to a snakey, erratic presentation- throw one of those slug go ss fished erratically and the pickerel will go nuts. The American eel run is a shell of what it has been historically, and has been for decades. 

[Swamp Girl]

On 8/25/2023 at 4:31 AM, Pat Brown said:

You don't see a ton of big head small body on that pond.

 

I fished a pond on Thursday morning with bass like ^this.^ I do not like the big head small body bass.

[Swamp Girl]

@Pat Brown: I've also founds that the tail tells the tale. By tail, I mean the muscle before the the part of the tail that flares. You need muscle to move a mass. Example:

 

[ironbjorn]

Not entirely the same thing, but more often than not, if I'm fishing a pond that is loaded with huge bluegill, it has a mostly stunted bass population.

[1984isNOW]

There's a water round here that I saw an eel so big it I almost jumped. Easily over 3.5 ft, dangerous to fish there at night though. But if you say that's big fish then maybe I'll take the risk.

[ne_dan]

Around here (Southern New England) big pickerel/pike = big bass; like others have said.  I drives me crazy how people will throw pike and pickerel on shore to die because they think the esox kill all the bass.  At the same time treating every bass they catch like an absolute garbage, dragging them on shore, 5 minutes to take a picture, scale in the gills, etc.  

[1984isNOW]

I would never on purpose kill any fish, but those idiots don't understand how ecosystems work.

 

A simple 5 minute required video with purchase of fishing license would make enough of a difference.

 

Sometimes bank fishing it's tough not to have a bass slap the grass. I'd love to see some info on bass getting a little dirty and the impact.

 

 

[Bankc]

I'd say it's more likely to, but not necessarily guaranteed to.  Around here (we don't have pickerel), lakes are often getting better or getting worse, as they're not usually well maintained.  So that they're rarely able to stabilize for long.  It's common for a change in the ecosystem to effect one species first, or more than another.  So I wouldn't say that big pickerel will always equal big bass, but I would say that big pickerel suggests a healthy ecosystem, which would also be a good indication of big bass.  But it's not a guarantee.  

[the reel ess]

Generally, I'd say if most fish besides the bass are small, that would mean more forage for the bass. But in a larger ecosystem, there are many factors. For instance you always hear that having bass and crappie in a pond is a bad idea because they eat the same thing. But I fish a 30 acre place (basically a big pond) that has both and some really good size of each. I believe this place has an abundance of baitfish, including gold shiners. It doesn't have any pickerel though that I've ever seen. But then I fished there for a decade before catching the first catfish, a big flathead.

[PhishLI]

On 8/20/2023 at 1:27 PM, Kites R4 Skyfishing said:

Is there a correlation to size of all species in an ecosystem?

Around here there are big fish lakes and small fish lakes. Where the bass are big, the pickerel can be big to huge, like 26"-30", but so is everything else. Cats, carp, bluegill, perch. everything. It just so happens that most of the places where I go feed into salt water and all have eels. I watched a 3 footer slithering over a weed clump the other night which was a first. They're usually glued to the bottom when I spot them and much smaller. Like a foot to 15" long. They seem to be on the move. A few years ago, the SK Bullworm played well at these places at about this time. I have them rigged and ready.

[Darth-Baiter]

i'm with WRB.  if the ecosystem is healthy, all fish benefit.  makes the most sense for me. 

[MassYak85]

I've found this to be the case. Some of the biggest pickerel I've caught were in herring fed lakes that are known to produce large bass.