Setting the drag part II

[Laggyman]

After reading through the "Setting the Drag" thread, I wondered about my settings and decided to try them out. I got a 1L Bottle full of water and 0.5L bottle full of water to act as weights. (2.2 and 1.1lbs)

So I tried it on my baitcasting set, which is a 6'6 MH/F Rod with a Daiwa Procaster-Z 153iV spooled with 12lb fluro. I calculated I should set the drag at around 3.36lbs as per Flechro's advice on trying 28% of breaking strength. Ok, so chuck in both bottles into a grocery bag and lift them up!

But I got 2 problems which stopped me from nailing the proper setting.

1. The Procaster drag kept on letting go no matter how tight I set it. Does this mean there is really no use in using 12lb line as the reel isn't able to handle it??

2. I was a sissy and too afraid to clamp the spool down and try lifting that bag up... It looked like my rod was going to break. I freaked out  ;D Is this OK?

Tried the drag on my Ultra-lite Trout tackle and ML Bass tackle but both rods didn't seem to be able to hold the weight... Am I calculating this right??

Might sound a bit stupid to guys who catch big ones on a regular basis...  

[nboucher]

It's no good using heavy line if your rod can't take it. Your rod should have its range of recommended line strength printed on it just above the grip. If your line falls within that range, you're not going to break a MH rod. I'm unfamiliar with that reel, but you should be able to thumb the spool and lift that bag, keeping your rod at a 45 degree angle to the floor. (You're just trying to lift it an inch off the floor.) Not sure what's going on with your drag. Maybe ReelMech can offer his expertise on that.

[Fish Chris]

Couple thoughts come to mind. First off, I am a "drag setting fanatic" !!! I litterally check my drag every other cast (if I'm doing repeated casting of lures) and maybe 2 or 3 or even more times between each cast, if I am baitfishing where I might make one cast, then wait for several hours.

Sure, I have read the stuff about using a scale to check your drag setting pressure, and while this might be interesting for you or me to know, I certainly would NEVER base my drag setting on numbers. For myself, drag setting pressure is all about feel, based on experience.

Hey Nboucher, when you said > It's no good using heavy line if your rod can't take it < Hmmmmm.... When you said "heavy line" I assume you are meaning, line of a high breaking test..... But remember that although my braided spectra has a very high breaking test, it is 'anything but heavy' !

That said, I typically use 2 lb diameter, 10 lb test braid, on a rod designed for 1 to 4 lb test mono. Works great ! And after tons of huge fish caught on it, I have never broke one of those rods. Next, I use 8 lb diameter, 30 lb braid, on rods designed for 8 to 12 lb mono. Again, I feel its perfect combo. And so on, with larger rods, and even higher lb tests braids.

Funny thing is, it is possible to break 30 lb braid, with a rod designed to be used with 8 to 12 lb line...... But a guy would have get pretty carried away with his hook sets, and / or have his drag way too tight..... and yes, of course he could easily break the rod too.... Or straighten, or tear out a hook, etc,etc.

My best advice is to check the drag often, in case it should change from being bumped, humidity, or temp changes, etc. If after you have hooked a fish, you determine it is too loose, or too tight, you should be able to quickly bump it up or down, and then never have to mess with it again, with the exception of, often when I get a BIG one to the side of the boat, I will loosen the drag, to protect against any of those "surprise" last second runs !

Peace,

Fish

[Raul]

I agree Chris that drag setting is about "feel" based through experience, it 's easy to understand for old farts like us what you mean. Turn the star ---> pull, turn the star --- > pull and repeat as needed until it "feels" right, nothing fancy, no rocket science involved, just plain ol trial and error based in our experience...... but how long it took us to find the right ammount of pressure ?

I see nothing wrong with the method exposed by Matt, and it 's a good way to start developing the habit of properly setting the drag to the right ammount of pressure until they develop the ability of finding the point when it "feels right".

Also, 99% of the people don 't have any idea what kind of drag their reels have, Shimanos are completely different from Daiwas; Shimanos have "wet" drag systems while Daiwas have "dry" drag systems, and both even though designed to perform the same duty have two different approaches and both "feel" different.

[Chug Bug]

Agree with all of the above posts.  I would never use a mathematical formula or a percentage of failure to set a drag.  Do it by feel and use what feels right.  As far as your drag "slipping" off of it's setting.  This is common for my Daiwa reels.  The procaster does not have ratchet indents to set by.  My Japanese Capricorn, and my TD SOL both slip frequently.  It's just something that you will have to adapt to while fishing.  I must add that my relatively new Quantum Energy PT stays locked on my drag setting perfectly.  The indents are solid, and there is a lot of room between indents.  Good luck, and have FUN catching fish, not worrying about your drag.

[senile1]

Adjusting your drag from experience is nice.  (When you have experience.)  Laggyman, if you're not familiar with adjusting your drag during the fight, using the weights is absolutely a great idea to create a starting point for your drag settings.  After you become more accustomed to the equipment you are using, you will eventually use some of that valuable experience to adjust your drag further.  A MH rod should have no problems lifting the weights you mentioned.  I would be concerned about the drag system on your reel.  A Daiwa Procaster should be able to lock down and not slip on 3.3 lbs of weight and even more.  

[RoLo]

In my view, "feel" (even for experienced anglers) has very serious limitations, almost like "emotion".

I fish the same way I invest in stocks, I try to factor out as much emotion (feeling) as possible,

using cold unemotional metrics, it seems to work.

All my reel-drags are set to 28% of line-test, and over time that becomes the 'feel' I am accustomed to.

(Accordingly, my 4-lb Shimano begins slipping at around 1 lb and my 130-lb Penn International begins slipping at around 35 lbs).

Drag-setting though is only half the story, because line-drag in the water is an intangible but ever-present part of the whole picture.

            I don't subscribe however to the "grocery bag" approach, because I adjust all my reels on the same day.

With a second-person it's easy to move from reel to reel, where the other party simply reads out the current pressure.

I'd need a few dozen pre-weighted and pre-marked grocery bags to enjoy that same versatility.

Roger

[nboucher]

Chris, here's what confuses me about lines and rods. I have zero experience with braid (for no particular reason) so I'll use Yo-zuri hybrid, which I do use, as my example. I use 12#, which has a 20# breaking point. My rod is rated for as high as 20# line, so I figure I'm fine. But small-diameter braid can have a 30 or 40# breaking point. Even though the diameter of braid would suit my rod just fine in terms of the rod guides and casting, if I'm hung up in thick salad, why wouldn't my 20#-rated rod break before the 30# braid on it? What am I missing?

Norman

[RoLo]

Even though the diameter of braid would suit my rod just fine in terms of the rod guides and casting, if I'm hung up in thick salad, why wouldn't my 20#-rated rod break before the 30# braid on it? What am I missing?

Lines are rated according to their breaking strengths, but not rods.

Rods are rated according to the line-class that's most appropriate for their range of flex, tip action and butt section.

Roger

[Laggyman]

Adjusting your drag from experience is nice. (When you have experience.) Laggyman, if you're not familiar with adjusting your drag during the fight, using the weights is absolutely a great idea to create a starting point for your drag settings. After you become more accustomed to the equipment you are using, you will eventually use some of that valuable experience to adjust your drag further. A MH rod should have no problems lifting the weights you mentioned. I would be concerned about the drag system on your reel. A Daiwa Procaster should be able to lock down and not slip on 3.3 lbs of weight and even more.

Actually, I never really had any problems with drag. Previously I set the drag a bit tight, and then loosened up a tad while fighting. It's just that I came up on this "old school" method and thought I should give it a try and see how it feels.  I never had problems with changing drag during a fight nor just using arrogant guesses  ;D

My Procaster slips at around 2lbs. I think it's broken.... I lost a fish today because of that.  I was fishing a weedless jig-trailer and if anybody remembers my thread about jigs and hooksets,  I never had any good experiances with a jig. Anyway, I got a bite, and set the hook, but the drag slipped.  I got the fish hanging there for a few seconds and managed a glance at him, which I am sure he was going to be my next PB   I was franctically trying to set the hook once again to be sure with my thumb clamped down on the spool, but the fish got away before I could do that.  If I didn't have that brand-new MH rod with the Procaster, that Procaster would have been at the bottom of the pond by now!!!

And the funny thing is, I think the drag is getting worse every moment. Since the drag would slip even at MAX power, I knew my 12lb line could hold against anything. I got a nice fish using a Jerkbait today, but not more than a 1.5 or 2lb at best. Maybe only a tad above 1lb. My drag felt really "mushy" and though I was reeling in, the spool wouldn't budge. The drag was slipping again... I got the fish, but I swore I'm getting myself a new reel....

nboucher:

My rod is within line limits. Well within in fact... Maybe I'm just freaking out  ;D

[flechero]

My Procaster slips at around 2lbs. I think it's broken...

Send it for service, something is definitely not right.

[Fish Chris]

Hello Nboucher. Rolo is right. Add in the fact that because of the non-stretch nature of braid, I typically run a lighter drag setting with 30 lb braid, than I would with 10 lb mono.... Certainly no more than....

Along the same lines, people are often surprised to hear about huge fish, caught on light line.... but again, its all about the drag setting. A 1000 lb Marlin can only put 5 lbs of pressure on a reel with a 5 lb drag setting (until he gets to the ends of your string, then things will change very quickly :-)

Peace,

Fish

PS, I hear you guys about the experience aspect. Nothing wrong with the ideas mentioned above, for guys who are not sure.

[Fish Chris]

even for those of you who want to lift weighed objects, or use a scale to set your drag, you should try to get a "good feel" for the drag setting, which these methods help you to decide upon, and here's why.....

Even the best drag systems will change throughout the day. Temperature has a lot to do with it. A warm drag will ususally slip easier than a cold one. Also, no matter how good of a "ratchet system" drag your reel has, I have never seen one that could not be accidentaly bumped.

And finally, it's up to you.... and you don't have to do this.... But I sure like the idea of purposely lightening my drag way up, when I have finally gotten a big one to the side of the boat, to protect against those last second surges.

How many times have you heard (but hopefully not experienced firsthand) "And finally, I had this monster right up to the boat... Then, when I reached down to grab it... Whoosh ! It took off and snapped my 20 mono like thread" ! :-(

Don't let this be you !

Peace,

Fish

[Laggyman]

My Procaster slips at around 2lbs. I think it's broken...

Send it for service, something is definitely not right.

That will be done soon. It was soooo darn cold today I'm sure the season is pretty much over for me. I thought my toes were gone!  

OTOH, I might get myself different reel and chuck the Procaster. It's given me enough headaches for a lifetime!! I hate the fact that the line gets tangled in a tiny space between the spool and the outer body. It kinks the line and is often the cause of a major overrun... I think I've used it long enough  

[flechero]

I hate the fact that the line gets tangled in a tiny space between the spool and the outer body

If you have enough room for #12 line to get through that space, your reel may not be assembled properly and that may also explain the drag issues you're having.  That reel is worth way more than the cost of a servicing...  and then you'll have a great second reel or back up to the new one you are about to buy!  

If you still don't want it, send it to ReelMech and I'll pay the service costs and give it to one of the junior members who needs a reel.  If interested, PM me.

[Laggyman]

I always thought the Procasters were bottom-end Daiwa Reels. It certainly didn't cost a bunch. I was originally planning for the Procaster to become a bench warmer once I get the new reel (Whatever it will be) but today's performance shattered any confidence left  

I'm going to contact Daiwa tomorrow and see if I can come up with an estimate for spare parts and everything.  If things don't work out I'll PM you Flechero. I am interested in your offer.  

I'll be back again tomorrow

Cheers  ;D

[nboucher]

Even though the diameter of braid would suit my rod just fine in terms of the rod guides and casting, if I'm hung up in thick salad, why wouldn't my 20#-rated rod break before the 30# braid on it? What am I missing?

Lines are rated according to their breaking strengths, but not rods.

Rods are rated according to the line-class that's most appropriate for their range of flex, tip action and butt section.

Roger

Thanks, Roger. Why didn't I think of that? Sometimes the simplest answers are the hardest ones for me to see.   8-)

[Laggyman]

Ok, I found out this particular Procaster model is prone to breaking one way or the other. I've read reports of the reel breaking after 1 season of use. Mine went through more than 5 abusive seasons. Not bad!!  

Checking out the price for spare parts and things, I came up on a rough estimate of about half the price of what I paid for it in the first place. I'm still wondering if I should fix it up, but even if I do it's going to become a backup reel.  It did an awesome job for the price I paid. It was a good reel as long as I didn't notice the problems  

I found a used Daiwa Millionaire CV-Z for half the retail price in BEAUTIFUL condition and the monkey made me do the rest  ;D That will be my main reel for a while now until I can get a MetaniumXT  BTW, the drag on this reel works great  8-) I'm going to fish jigs a lot with this reel!!

Thanks guys for all the help. It really helps all my otherwise dumb decisions  

[MickD]

All these responses to setting the drag properly, and the percentages of line pound test, and all the science, are certainly interesting, but for bass, it's in my opinion much ado about nothing.  Bass are just not that challenging on drag setting accuracy.  Just set it so you don't break the rod or the line on setting the hook and so that the line doesn't imbed on the spool,  and go fishing and have fun.

If you want to really get into the importance of proper drag setting, go salt water fishing.