The Good, The Bad, and the Ugly Stik: A score and basic review of rods up to $250.

[galyonj]

@Cbump I mean, I assumed a lure was involved, so that's on me. Do you just whack them with it, then?

 

"No, catfish! That's a bad catfish!"

[Alex Ball]

8 minutes ago, garroyo130 said:

I wish you spent as much time organizing the results as you did testing ...

Right. That list is my personal list of high scorers that are readily available. Not a true result list. Whatcha want to know? I got lists for days. Scores. Scoring methods. Actual action vs Stated action, etc....

[Alex Ball]

Some Denali eye candy. 

[Cbump]

17 minutes ago, galyonj said:

@Cbump I mean, I assumed a lure was involved, so that's on me. Do you just whack them with it, then?

 

"No, catfish! That's a bad catfish!"

Have you ever fished for catfish? It’s crazy. You use a new thing called “bait”.

[Alex Ball]

2 minutes ago, Cbump said:

Have you ever fished for catfish? It’s crazy. You use a new thing called “bait”.

I'm really enjoying this sub thread. Yes! I use livers. Always have. I've been catting since I was little. Got into bass for the challenge and the fancy toys. 

[galyonj]

Bait sounds icky. Last catfish I caught, I caught on a ned rig.

[Alex Ball]

2 minutes ago, galyonj said:

Bait sounds icky. Last catfish I caught, I caught on a ned rig.

    Yup. Greatest sub thread ever. I'm loving it. LoL. 

[galyonj]

I don't recommend it.

 

[Alex Ball]

Early results:

 

Everyone loves the lightning rod. 

Galyonj and cbump have won the fishing internet today. OMG I'm laughing so hard. 

[KP Duty]

39 minutes ago, Alex Ball said:

The weight does. The feel is nuts. I'm certainly biased. No doubt about it. I had one $500 dollar rod. A Loomis Glx I got for Christmas. Just sold it because I prefer the RD.

    Again, it's all my opinion on this based on how I experience things. I'm pretty much blind without glasses. I often fish without glasses cuz it feels better. Feel is 99 percent of it for me. The RD is by far the best rod I've ever used.

    They are Falcon essentially. Same people place, and actions/lengths. A better Cara in my opinion. Far better. 

Didn't know Falcon and Virtus/jewel were the same company.  Kinda strange they decided to outsource blanks and manufacturing for their long established Falcon brand, and then decided to roll blanks again under a new name.  Maybe they thought Falcon couldn't be revived as a known USA company and had to start fresh with virtus.  

[Alex Ball]

4 minutes ago, KP Duty said:

Didn't know Falcon and Virtus/jewel were the same company.  Kinda strange they decided to outsource blanks and manufacturing for their long established Falcon brand, and then decided to roll blanks again under a new name.  Maybe they thought Falcon couldn't be revived as a known USA company and had to start fresh with virtus.  

  Not the same. I misspoke there. Falcon WAS Harrison, Arkansas. It drove the economy. Then they left. From what I understand, Virtus took over the factory, got the same guys to roll the rods, and essentially became an OEM to fund the Virtus line. Dunno who they build for. 

     Jewel and Virtus are one and the same. I know guys at both. Talked to the rod guy at Virtus today by coincidence. I live in the area. Falcon isn't connected, but the rods are very similar because the same people make them. 

    I haven't used a new Falcon. I've had one in my hands. They don't feel like they used to. Can't opine any further on em. 

[casts_by_fly]

38 minutes ago, Alex Ball said:

  Not the same. I misspoke there. Falcon WAS Harrison, Arkansas. It drove the economy. Then they left. From what I understand, Virtus took over the factory, got the same guys to roll the rods, and essentially became an OEM to fund the Virtus line. Dunno who they build for. 

     Jewel and Virtus are one and the same. I know guys at both. Talked to the rod guy at Virtus today by coincidence. I live in the area. Falcon isn't connected, but the rods are very similar because the same people make them. 

    I haven't used a new Falcon. I've had one in my hands. They don't feel like they used to. Can't opine any further on em. 

 

I don't know the old falcons, but I've got a bunch of the new ones and I'm going to say that for $199 you're not going to find a better rod than the expert line.  And $250 for a Cara is a steal.  I don't have enough basis in other rods to say that it will compete with $500 rods, but others will say that.  I also don't think you can get twice the rod of a Cara to make $500 worth it to me.

[Alex Ball]

22 minutes ago, casts_by_fly said:

 

I don't know the old falcons, but I've got a bunch of the new ones and I'm going to say that for $199 you're not going to find a better rod than the expert line.  And $250 for a Cara is a steal.  I don't have enough basis in other rods to say that it will compete with $500 rods, but others will say that.  I also don't think you can get twice the rod of a Cara to make $500 worth it to me.

Fair enough. I had a Glx by Loomis. $500. I see the point. Above 250-300, your looking for aesthetic in my opinion. Something one off.

    They don't feel the same as they used to. I have several older falcons. The new Cara is really nice in hand. Just feels different than my old one. Dunno how to explain that verbally. 

    I feel exactly the same about the old ones as you do the new ones. Virtus just picked up what Falcon left behind. Rod rollers included. It definitely explains why they never built low end stuff to start. Straight to the top. Already had the infrastructure. 

[bowhunter63]

Don’t forget the Ugly Stil pro lite nice cork handle made nice Great for spinnerbaits 

[Alex Ball]

2 minutes ago, bowhunter63 said:

Don’t forget the Ugly Stil pro lite nice cork handle made nice Great for spinnerbaits 

Yup. Nice rods. The Carbon Elite is excellent too. I prefer the cork. Agreed. 

[casts_by_fly]

39 minutes ago, Alex Ball said:

Fair enough. I had a Glx by Loomis. $500. I see the point. Above 250-300, your looking for aesthetic in my opinion. Something one off.

    They don't feel the same as they used to. I have several older falcons. The new Cara is really nice in hand. Just feels different than my old one. Dunno how to explain that verbally. 

    I feel exactly the same about the old ones as you do the new ones. Virtus just picked up what Falcon left behind. Rod rollers included. It definitely explains why they never built low end stuff to start. Straight to the top. Already had the infrastructure. 

 

They didn't do low end because you can't make american made rods with a decent profit margin that compete with imported rods.  There is too much hand work and manual work in building a rod such that the labor rates make a significant difference.  Any industry that requires people as opposed to machinery will have a higher emphasis on labor rates in the market.  If the extra manual labor gets you a more premium product AND you can charge for it then you can make it work.

 

Above the $200 price point you still get performance improvements, but the gains become incremental relative to the spend required.  Going from $50-100 is a big jump and you get twice the rod (or more!).  From $100-$200 I'd say you still get twice the rod.  From $200-400 you're not getting twice the rod.

[Alex Ball]

13 minutes ago, casts_by_fly said:

 

Above the $200 price point you still get performance improvements, but the gains become incremental relative to the spend required.  Going from $50-100 is a big jump and you get twice the rod (or more!).  From $100-$200 I'd say you still get twice the rod.  From $200-400 you're not getting twice the rod.

     Agreed. Everything rod I use is above the 100 mark, but each is specific to a need. I only throw a limited number of things. I try to be versatile, but also comfortable with my setups. My most expensive rods are the most versatile. That's why I spent the money. 

    Above 200 it's on the buyer. Its about them. Not so much the rod. It's about what they want to experience. 

 

[optimator]

On 7/31/2023 at 8:42 AM, Alex Ball said:

Right. 11 breaks. 

4 were On hooksets.

5 on snags(I bank fish so sometimes it happens)

2 were definitely on me. 

To be fair,  I didn't break all 11 personally. I'll get on a boat with a client and give em options. Sometimes rods just break. 

     The only company to fight me on replacement was Abu. Everyone else was very helpful.

    I acknowledge my break rate is high. I'll also admit I absolutely test every single rod to it's razors edge limit. Some of the guys I help set up are pros. I don't want to mislead them. I need to know the limits.

You said you’ve been fishing for 30 months. And then you mention “clients”. Are you guiding or are these work related clients?

[Spankey]

7 hours ago, Alex Ball said:

 That Winch rod they make is stupid good. That was my first bait specific rod. Across the board, that series is money all day. They over perform the price point by a bunch. 

    Agreed on it being personal. That's why my lists aren't going to be my favorite ones usually. I do a 15 point test on rods and a 20 point test on reels. You'd be shocked how often the high end stuff gets beat. My lists are based on my scoring system. For instance, my favorite mid level rod is actually the Shimano Clarus, but it's not easy to get, and it didn't score the highest. The Vendetta did and it's everywhere. 

    The p4p list removes price and replaces it with value. The Veritas is the best overall series I've tested. No duds. The others were listed because of what you get for what you paid. The Sellus feels like $100. Its 50. So on. You got the gist. 

     

I say to each his own. The “Winch” Rods are a favorite of mine. Funny how what doesn’t work for one guy, works for another. Only my opinion but I feel they are one of the few true moderate actions out there. 
 

Can appreciate the time and effort you put into the rod opinions. 

[Bankbeater]

I usually spend between $100 and $150 on rods. Over the years I have ended 3 rods. An Eagle Claw rod in a tail gate, a BPS rod by falling on it when I took a tumble down a hill, and a St. Croix rod that I still can’t figure out how I broke it. 

[dave]

Lightning Rods were my go to guide boat rods.  Great for the money and if a customer breaks one, $40 and new one appears.    I actually have a handful of spinning rods left if someone wants them cheap and pays shipping...

[Alex Ball]

On 7/31/2023 at 5:24 PM, optimator said:

You said you’ve been fishing for 30 months. And then you mention “clients”. Are you guiding or are these work related clients?

    I've sort of created my own niche where I live. The local shop owner has sorta put me on a pedestal as a setup man. Before he came back, I ran a tiny little shop just to keep a tackle shop here. 

      I gained a rep for being able to put the right setup in your hands. The one. My "clients" are guys and girls who want to test things before they buy. That's the service I offer. 

     Not a guide. Not nearly experienced enough. Maybe someday. I'm happy with what I do. I do have a day job. Someday I hope to not have to. 

[Alex Ball]

On 7/31/2023 at 6:26 PM, Spankey said:

I say to each his own. The “Winch” Rods are a favorite of mine. Funny how what doesn’t work for one guy, works for another. Only my opinion but I feel they are one of the few true moderate actions out there. 
 

Can appreciate the time and effort you put into the rod opinions. 

      For a long time, that was my A1 rod. I've moved up a bit, but the Winch still gets some action. I have a Denali I use more now, but I love 15 minutes from the home store so if it fails, I just go get another one. 

     The action on those is almost perfectly to spec. 35 percent load. That's moderate. Abu went with the standard. Set it actually. With a $100 rod. 

       I won't post too often. It takes so much time to test properly. I'll say this: Almost none of the rods I prefer will score top 3 in category. What you said there "to each his own" is accurate to my situation. My Denali Attax Glass Cranking rod was 5/9 on my test list for it's category. Its by far my favorite one in the group. To each his own. Yessir. 

[Scott804]

Tried both Dobyns Sierra & Kaden lines and didn't like em? 

[Alex Ball]

1 minute ago, Scott804 said:

Tried both Dobyns Sierra & Kaden lines and didn't like em? 

 

2 minutes ago, Scott804 said:

Tried both Dobyns Sierra & Kaden lines and didn't like em? 

It's funny those 2 series are about the same number in price. I liked the Sierra. Came really close to being my cranking rod. 682 model. I didn't like the Kaden for the price. 30 less yes. 

     I really like the consistency of Dobyns. There's value at every level. However, as it's been pointed out, every angler is unique. What I think is great won't be the same for everyone. 

   Have you tried comparable St. Croix rods? I've got several friends who prefer them to Dobyns. The Mojo Bass is a very good series IMO.