What could I do to convince you ???

[Fish Chris]

that was a good tip you gave, about using a cheaper line for a backing.

But for those who want fill the spool with pure braid, simply wrap a small piece of electrical tape, duct tape, or my favorite (since I always have it around for wrapping my reel seats anyway) batters grip tape, all the way around the center of the spool first. Then wind on your braid tightly. It will basically cut into the tape, and glue it to your spool. When you go to replace your line, just leave the last 10 or 15 feet, and tie to the end of that. Guaranteed to never slip on your spool.

Peace,

Fish

[Hawgin]

Chris-

 I also apologize if I came acrossed as bitter and angry, even though to be honest that is how I am most of the time.   I have been using 50 lb power pro for the last few years and I love it for certain applications.  I think the positives far outweigh the negatives for braid.  I just am not convinced that it is best for every application.  

If anyone fishes a lot of stained to muddy water, and you want the highest level of sensitivity, then no doubt braid is the best option.   I might be willing to give braid a try for some other types of applications, and I will always have it on for fishing jigs.  I will say this, if I ever moved to Cali and started throwing the big baits, for the big boys, I would fish nothing but braid or a super heavy floro.

[GAMEOVER]

I use 20lb Sufix in moss green almost 100% of the time. A true braided line handles better then any line on the market expecially when fishing with lures. Braid is so easy to handle and is the only line that has never broke on me. I have yet to lose a fish on braid. Ill continue to use lures and pigs worry free about ever losing either because of my braid. Try tieing a Polamer knot to a lure directly using each type of line and watch your lure perform flawlessly with braid while falling short using mono or fluoro.

[Fish Chris]

now that this thread has evolved to this level, I must admit something here.....

I have actually found two situations where "mono" is better than braid. I just didn't mention this earlier, for concern that it might sound like I was arguing my own point (I had an ex girlfriend once, who was the Queen of that :-) LOL )

If you are one of the guys who likes to night fish with a blacklight, braid does not fluoresce. None of it. Not even the brightly colored stuff :-( I'm a lousy night fishermen anyway, so this is a non-issue for me. But it is something I am aware of, about braid.

The other one is, Crappie fishing. Geeez, I'd have thought that using a really soft micro-light rod, and a very light drag, and a fluorocarbon leader, would solve any problems that might be incurred from the use of braid................................... but for whatever weird and unexplainable reason, I have just done night and day better for Crappie, with 2 lb test fluorocarbon, than I ever did with micro-braid and a fluorocarbon leader ?

So yes, my point is, I understand that there are a few situations in which mono is better suited....... I just personally find those situations to be few and far between :-)

Now, is this more politically correct ? :-)

Great fishing to you, regardless of what line your using,

Peace,

Fish

[Catt]

I've used braid line since the early 1960's, yes it's been around that long and longer, there was a time when mono didn't exist. While those were not your Super Lines of today they displayed the same problems. As a teenager I worked on my uncle's charter fishing boat in the Gulf of Mexico so I have a tiny bit of experience with braided line & mono.

Sorry Fish Chris there is no getting over the hump or getting past the learning curve, you simply learn to deal with it, same for mono user you deal with memory & stretch.

The only advantage is between you ears  

[flechero]

Chris,

I don't "promote" mono to everyone... just prefer it for myself. I know braid has it's good qualities, but in my case I saw more of the bad qualities while fishing.

I tried braid for an entire season and found that I caught fewer fish, had more trouble with snags, broke off in the rocks more and generally had less fun with it. I did not have good luck with leaders either. Not to mention casting was better for me with mono.

So in the end, you may be right about braid being "better" but I'm not willing to invest enough years in braid to forget that mono was better for me.

Maybe we should turn it around... Why do you think it is that I have had such good experiences with mono and you haven't? No, I haven't caught a 17 lb bass but I have caught LM, SM, striper, carp, cats and saltwater fish galore... eveh a few big fish along the way. I don't have trouble with the stretch, memory or any other aspect of mono... why do you think you do?

All in good clean fun. Different strokes for different folks.

[p-funk]

Hey Chris, so you haven't had any problems on snapping off any of the BIG swimbaits on the braid?  I just see so many recommend it all the time for swimbaits that I just completely stayed away from braid with them.  I use braid for everything else and I have snapped off quite a few lures on the cast, which I'm sure is because I cast too hard or didn't check the line before casting.  Just hate to see one of my expensive swimbaits soar through the air while using braid.  I know mono can snap too, but it's just what everyone seems to recommend.  Just curious on your thoughts on it with the big baits.

[mister_fisherman]

I'v been putting off trying braid but now I think I wiil just stick with the good old standbys Yo-Zuri hybrid and Vanish transition line. I only use spin equipment cause I pretty muck suck at casting setups! LOL I have also read that braid can cause all sorts of damage to your rods guide system and reel. JMO

I have never really tried it so I cant give an evaluation but I do have a pony spool of fireline the guy at Gander Mnt. gave me to try. He said "You'll be back to buy more.." Well, I havn't. I'm sure it has it's purpose but for now I'm satisfied with what I have.

[Grey Wolf]

Mister- Fisherman WELCOME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You have been mis-informed about braids ruining your reels and rod guides.

[Raul]

You 're not going to convince me Chris, I don 't like braid at all, I 've used it and nope, I don 't like it a little bit.

Gimme Trilene Big Game !

[Siebert Outdoors]

You have to have the proper tools for the job.  Some times I use braid but never in clear water.  I like it and it performes well for me.

Not all lines are good for all fisherman.  Each line and each fisherman have different characteristics and sometimes certain ones dont work together.

But me I really like braid and how it performs.  Flouro is still my favorite.

[castaway]

I simply reel down to remove the slack, hold onto my spool (not my line) and give it a sharp yank. As soon as I have broken it off (or straightened the hook) and before reeling in.....

Chris, What brand of reels are you using ?Thats got to be rough on the roller bearing and spool assembly.I would think it would be easier on the reel if you tied off on a cleat and powered the big motor up to break the braid off. ;D Actually , I liked Tuf line for deep water weed jigging, the Tuf line braid squeaks on the guides when a fish tries to take your jig on the soft bite days.

[GAMEOVER]

If your a pure power angler braid can be your best friend! Let the women wear the floss :-?

In all seriousness I get nervous throwing more pricey lures on something other then braid, as a matter of fact I wont use them on other line and will resort to something else as I always lose stuff when I do use mono/fluoro/hybrid.

[.ghoti.]

Ghoti, your whole post is just completely backwards to my experiences, but of course your welcome to your opinion. Again, the only thing I could ask you is, why do you suppose braided line causes "you" this long list of problems, but provides nearly nothing but great benefits for me ?

Chris, beats the heck outa me. You say potato, I say spuds. When I said "maybe I can convince you", I was pulling your leg a bit. It almost sounds as if your leg came off in my hand. If I've offended, you have my apologies. It was not my intention.

From discord arises discourse. And that's one of the ways this old dog learns new tricks.

I used to have braid on all my reels. I was one of the first around here to jump on the braid bandwagon. Iron Thread first, then Spiderwire. I loved it for the sensitivity. In that category, braid is the all time world champ. Nothing else even comes close. Not arguing that point. It's also the strongest stuff out there for any given diameter. Not disputing that either.

I used braid for several seasons, gradually becoming disenchanted with it. And it was not the knots, handling, digging, slipping, poor shock strength, wrap aroung everything kind of problems that did me in. It was being out fished time after time by guys using mono. This happened too many times to be some kind of aberation. Way too many times. More than often enough, by far, to be statistically significant. I even spent one year fishing braid and mono side by side to test this. That was the end of braid for me.

Note that I still have braid on my muskie rods, and on one bass rod I use for deep jigging and C-rigging.

When a braided line hits the market that's as hard to see underwater as flouro, then I might be persuaded to give it a try. Until then, thanks, but no thanks. I'll stick to the advantages I perceive in Flourocarbon line. ( perceive being the operative term here, for all of us )

On another tack, I've gradually switched to lighter line weights. As I've moved down the line weight scale, I've caught more fish and the fun factor has increased. For me that's what it's all about. Most of my bass fishing is done using 10lb test flouro. Sometimes 8, sometimes 12. Around here, a 5 pounder is a giant, and is a lot more fun on 10lb mono than on 65lb braid.

And Chris, if the fish in my area were anywhere near the size of those awesome pictures you posted, I might have a totally different view on the subject. If I caught a bass the size of some of yours, I'd need to change my shorts. My PB is an 8.

Cheers,

GK

[justtrying]

chris,

i've followed this thread w/interest because you've brought out a lot of the things that i've been thinking lately.

i used braid (power pro) on quite a few of my reels last year, but, decided i'd take it off & use Yo-Zuri ultra soft on most applications.  i left the braid on my jig rods.

so, i bought lots of spools of YZ.  then, i began to wonder why the braid wouldn't work.  as you mentioned,  strong, no memory, etc.....  

now, i've put braid on approx half of my outfits & am leaning toward braid on the others.   i even tried 10lb braid on my "noodle rod" (custom 7' ultra lite)   it works Great!  i've caught bass up to 3 lbs with no problem whatsoever;  ...and, it'll allow me to throw a beetle or roadrunner a mile.

i'm still using yz on my shakey rod, but, am thinking about going to Gamma.  i think that's one application that something other than braid would work better.

SO, i tend to agree with you on the braid.  for me, it really works good.  the positives outweigh the negatives & i think it is Great STuff.

ronnie

[Guest avid]

I use braid all the time.  50# pp to be exact.  It doesn't dig into the spool very badly at that diameter.

As far as line wrapping around the tip of the rod. This takes alot of practice not to  happen and also depends on where and what you fish.  fishing a spook on a windy day = line wrap.  The more practice the less it will happen.

One of the  reasons I use only high end loomis and St croix rods is because damage I have done to guides with braid.  These companies will send you the correct guide free of charge and your local tackle guy will repair it perfectly for less than 5 bucks.

I also use mono leader.   REason 1 = confidence.  It's just hard for me to throw a topwater on highly visible braid.  Reason 2 = stretch.  the mono will give a little shock absrobtion.  reason 3.  If hung up the 15 lb mono will  break will break without too much effort, rather than the 50# Power pro.

correctly tying proper knots will minimize the "worries" some have with line to leader connections.

[dodgeguy]

i would be suspect of any guide that braid damages.braid does not damage titanium nitrided guides, fuji alconite guides or fuji sic guides.

i need no convincing.i just bought some more sufix braid the other night.

[senile1]

Darn, I missed all the fun and games on this thread because it started this weekend.  Oh well, great thread and excellent arguments on both sides of the equation.  I use braid, copolymers, and mono for different situations.  For the guys who don't like braid on spinning outfits, I've been running 10 lb braid on one of my spinning rods since Spring.  I really like it,  but about once an outing, it'll tangle around my rod tip if I'm not careful.  Different strokes for different folks.  

[RoLo]

I believe the positives of braid FAR outweigh the negatives, mostly because the negatives are so highly elusive.

I'm a big stickler for performance and very criticial of product malfunction (one strike and you're out).

On the other hand, I'm not a nitpicker and don't complain about minor inconveniences.

GUIDE-EROSION

Damage to line-guides is a carryover fear from the original superlines, notably Spiderware Braid.

If you weren't using Titanium Nitride or Silicon Carbide line guides, the original spiderwire braid

would eventually erode a series of grooves in both your stripper guide and tip-top guide.

      PowerPro Spectra is not abrasive and even cheap ceramic guides or aluminum oxide guides

will hold up indefinitely to PowerPro braid.

LINE-BURROWING

This is not a REAL problem, not unless you're horsing waterlogged stumps from the bottom of the lake.

And even at that, I don't consider anything a problem that can be quickly and easily remedied.

TIP-WRAP

In my experience, tip-wrap is very unusual, and if I hadn't read about it, it never would've occurred to me.

In any event, anything you can UNdo in your subconscious mind, is not what I consider a 'problem'.

LINE-STRETCH

Monofilament line sharply reduces our hook-ups when jig fishing and when fishing anything on a long line.

This I consider a MAJOR problem, because line-stretch interferes with the most sacred segment of fishing, "the Hook-Set".

LINE-MEMORY

PowerPro braid has zero memory and is pure unadulterated joy on spinning gear.

A Bird's Nest of wiry monofilament the size of a pineapple....NOW we have a problem!!

Roger

[Siebert Outdoors]

You guys that fish braid for everything, have you noticed a difference in catch ratio to flourocarbon in clear to ultra clear water?  

Me personally,  I have.  I've been handed a few whoopins, and then switched to flouro because of this flouro to braid catch ratios.

[dodgeguy]

i've seen it go both ways in clear and stained water.it has nothing to do with the line.it has to do with who had the better presentation and who put the lure in front of the fish that would bite.

[RoLo]

You guys that fish braid for everything, have you noticed a difference in catch ratio to flourocarbon in clear to ultra clear water?

I have an extremely high opinion of fluorocarbon line.

Unfortunately or fortunately, I use spinning gear for nearly everything (except shiner fishing, pike fishing & saltwater fishing).

Due to the memory of fluorocarbon, I've never made an honest comparison between fluoro and braid.

It's indisputable that fluorocarbon has less stretch than mono or copolymer, but braid has less stretch than fluorocarbon.

"Line invisibility" is the forte of fluorocarbon, but attaching a fluorocarbon leader to the main line, gives the braid user

all the same benefits. As for durability, fluoro and braid are probably a dead heat, depending more on line formulation

than line genre.

BTW:

I don't bother using a fluoro leader, and haven't noticed a decline in catch ratio compared to straight copolymer (I could be wrong).

Roger

[fishinyank]

I tried power-pro (50lb) on one of my surf rods for a week in May, and was so dissappointed in it I've been afraid to spool it on any of my bass rods. The stuff frayed constantly, and broke, constantly. Knots also seemed to like to slide out of it. Now this is just casual "chuck the bait and wait while I have few beers" surf fishing, so I wasn't asking a whole lot from braided line, just that it didn't break. But it did. Alot. I couldn't imagine trying to fish this stuff for bass and put the demands on it that I do on mono, it would be a nightmare. But I waill give it a shot, though. I have to! If its as sensetive as everyone says it is its got to be worth a shot, plus I 'm not going to throw it out cause it's too expensive!

[Catt]

I don't carry but 4 rod-n-reels, 2 Texas Rigs with 15# Berkley Big Game, 1 Spinner Bait/Rat-L-Trap with 15# Berkley Big Game, & 1 Flippn Rig with 50# Power Pro.

Since I fish mainly on Toledo Bend there is no need for a leader with the braid because of the immense amount of cover. I've used Power Pro for only a year but normally use Cabela's Ripcord because I prefer Micro Dyneema 65 over Spectra.

The only thing I hate about braid is when you set hook and it aint a fish but a stump or log the pain that shoots up your arm will bring tears to your eyes.

[RoLo]

I've used Power Pro for only a year but normally use Cabela's Ripcord because I prefer Micro Dyneema 65 over Spectra.

Catt, I don't think I'd be off-topic if I asked you, what specific properties of Ripcord do you prefer over PowerPro?