What could I do to convince you ???

[Fish Chris]

Ya' know, I was just posting a response over on that other thread about cameras and scales (will people ever learn) .... which has shifted to the completely different topic of braided line.

And I started to ponder something here. Their is the larger group of mono guys, who won't ever switch to braid. Then their is the smaller, but sizable group, who use braid. And finally, their is a very small group of guys, who probably haven't had enough fishing experience, to have completely made up there minds yet.

But anyway, as I have said many times before, I have used micro-braided line (very successfully) for Bluegills on my UL gear, all the way up to 80 lb braid, on light saltwater tackle, for 300 lb Sturgeon. I have used it (very successfuly) in murky water, and also, much of the time, in gin clear water, for very spooky fish. I have used it (very successfully) for fishing with live bait, and a lot more so nowadays, with artificial lures.... of all types I should add, from little crankbaits, with tiny treble hooks, to big 10", 8 oz swimbaits ! I have used braid in wide open, cover free water, as well as between the limbs of submerged forests in LA and AR. {notice I didn't say "very successfully with that one :-) .....because I never caught anything worth a #%$ when I was down there... But then again, I never broke any off either}.

So I'm just curious; Why do some of you believe that braid might have worked so well for me, but it would not do the same for you ???

Anybody ?

Peace,

Fish

[Lightninrod]

Chris:   I've used several(Fireline, Power Pro, Lynch, etc.) braids over the years.  I lost an expensive topwater bait when I whipped it way out from a dock and the Fireline snapped like a toothpick .  But, my main dislike with braid is its tendency to wrap around my rod's upper area when there's slack thrown into it.  That could break an expensive rod if a heavy fish were to strike before I could get the limp braid unwrapped................................

I use a 100% fluro 95% of the time and the other 5% is in using 25# test Maxima for my heavier swimbaits.

Dan

[Vyron]

100% braid line user here. Well said  

[jayhawkfishin]

To convince me you need to rationalize using 40 lb. braid when a big fish in my area is 5 lb.  I see no need to use huge pound test when going after a fish that is a fraction of the pound test. If i break a fish off on 8 -12 pound mono its my fault.  

[sodaksker]

Chris,

I do enjoy the strength qualities of braid cuz man I love to put the "Bill Dance" hookset on them.  But I agree with Dan about the it getting wrapped around the end of my pole.  Also on weightless soft plastics the bait does not sink as well.

Rob

[Fish Chris]

Hello Lightningrod. While I can't say that I "never" have a tip wrap, while using braid, I can say that I have "never" broke a rod, nor damaged any other gear, because of it. I agree that tip wraps are an occasional pain in the arse..... but when weighed against the "constant pain" that is monofilament, it is a really easy trade for me :-)

Couple things Jayhawk. First off, you can get TUF-Line as light as 10 lb test (2 lb diameter) and if I were using baits or lures which allowed using micro-light gear, and fishing in basically coverless waters, this is exactly what I would use for your 5 lb'ers. More fun. More productive.

However, there are SOOO many more benefits to braid, than simply brute strength. Sensitivity. Durability. No memory. It wouldn't matter how small, or weak my fish were, braid is just so much more of a pleasure to use.

Peace,

Fish

[Fish Chris]

Hello Sodaksker. As I had agreed, those tips wraps are an occasional pain..... although because braid does not become all coily, and spring loaded, like mono does, when it gets just a few twists in it, this seems to be a really easy tradeoff for me.

BTW, braid is certainly strong.... but be carefull on those BD hooksets. Because of the non-stretch factor, a really hard hookset, most of the time, is simply not needed with braid, to get the same amount of hook setting pressure at the hook point. If you can't control your hook sets.... or if you simply enjoy swinging like a mad man, be sure to run a much lighter drag setting, and maybe use a slightly softer, slower action rod. Physics dictate, that something has to give. If it doesn't bend enough, or slip enough, something is going to break !

Peace,

Fish

[.ghoti.]

I don't used braid because what Lightningrod suggested happened to me. I was working a Super Spook along a weedline. Twitch, twitch, twitch, pause. On one of the twitches the line wrapped around the second or third guide from the top, a bass hit the Spook, I set the hook and the rod snapped about 12" down from the tip. Ruined the whole day.

So, what can you do to convince me? Nothing. I'm already convinced.

Maybe I can convince you. Here's what I see wrong with the braid.

1. It will slip on the spool. Solution; put some mono on first. Result; time wasted.

2. It will wrap around anything and everything. Solution; pay no attention to what your lure's doing. Spend your time paying attention to what your line is doing, and spend some more time getting it unwrapped. Result; missed bites

3. Visibilty. All fish will be line shy at some times. Solution; tie on a leader. Result; another knot in your rig. Something else to go wrong. Every knot is like another fitting in a piping system. Another place for a leak to happen. Also, I've seen a guide insert popped out when a guy with a 3/4oz jig on was casting with the knot about halfway down the rod towards the reel.

4. Knots. We all know about that.

5. It digs into itself on the spool when under tension. Solution; use larger diameter line. Result; you now have line on your reel which exceeds the capacity of your rod. Medium-heavy power rods seem to be what most people use for bass fishing. Most are rated, at the top end, for 17-25lb test line. So what happens when you use 65lb test line on a rod rated for a maximum of 25 pounds? Duh! Besides, I can't remember the last time I saw anybody catch a 65 pound bass.

6. It costs way too much. Solution; use something else.

7. Don't even think about what this stuff will do to a spinning reel. Been there, done that, said all the words my mother used to wash out my mouth with soap for using.

8. Very low shock strength. It will break sometimes on the hookset or on a hard cast. I launched a Castaic swimbait into never-never land once. Solution; there isn't one.

Is that enough? It is for me.

I use Transition for all my plastics and jigging now. When it first came out, it was junk. Only good for making slinkies. I'm color-blind, and sometimes have a hard time seeing the line against the water. I can see the Transition very well. Which is why I bought it in the first place. The original version was just too user unfriendly. The poor handling charateristics totally outweighed the benefit of increased visibilty above water. It is much better now. The new version is still easy for me to see above water, still changes back to less visible below water, and now handles like mono.

I still use Trilene XL for cranks, spinnerbaits and topwaters. I started experimenting this year with flouro and copolymers for these applications. Here are the conclusions I've drawn so far. I'm not gonna mention any brand names while the jury is still out.

I don't like flouro for topwaters. Sometimes, letting the bait sit, and just slightly twitch it, is what's required. This is harder to do when the line sinks as fast as flouro.

I'm leaning toward using flouro for spinnerbaits. I like the extra sensitivity.

I'm probably gonna continue using XL for cranks, although I'm still experimenting. A little extra stretch is a good thing when using baits with treble hooks. But, a little added depth from the flouro can also be a good thing.

Jerkbaits, despite the treble hooks, are much better served with flouro. The extra sensitivity, lower visibility and negative bouancy are all just what the doctor ordered for suspending baits. I'm using Vanish for jerks, at this time. I will be experimenting with other brands.

Not attacking anybody here, just my fifth of a dimes worth.

Good luck,

GK

[Lightninrod]

" but when weighed against the "constant pain" that is monofilament, it is a really easy trade for me  

"

I use fluro 95% of the time as I said in my post..............

[dodgeguy]

i have NEVER had sufix braid snap at any time.sufix also does not have the digging in issues other braids have.i do not believe largemouth bass are line shy.i have no problem catching them without a leader.and i guarantee that non braid users are missing light bites that braid users are feeling and setting hooks on.i agree with chris that braid has way less issues than mono or flouro ever will.

[Hawgin]

Chris-

 I love braided line for all the things that you mentioned, and I use it on two of my set ups.  I use braid for all of my flipping/pitching appliactions, and I use it for all of my top waters because of it's tendency to float.   However, I don't use it for all applications.  I think it has it's place in everyone's arsenal for fishing heavy cover, and it's great in stained to muddy water, however I think other types of line have their place as well.  There are definitely situations in which I like mono, especially when using moving baits (i.e. cranks, spinnerbaits).  Above all else, I am starting to really develop an affinitiy for Florocarbon, and co-polymer lines.  I like their sensitivity.  They have a better breaking strength than mono, and I like the "visibility" advantage it gives you in clearer water.  I think there is a time and a place for all types of line, and I don't think one line is the cure all for all situations, just like I don't think that there is one bait, one rod, on technique for fishing all situations.

[fishbear]

I use a 100% fluro 95% of the time and the other 5% is in using 25# test Maxima for my heavier swimbaits.

Dan

Wow, I thought Maxima was out of business.  I love that line for heavy work.....  I have not seen it anywhere here in Georgia since I moved here.  I grew up using Maxima for everything from trout to sturgeon... salt water or fresh water..

I learned to cast my first baitcaster with 20lb. Maxima.  with a 3/4 oz. weight attached... casting at a 1 gal. bucket in the back yard.

sorry, I am off topic, it just brought back a lot of good memories..

I do not use braid for the reasons stated before me, I guess I am a mono line person and always will be, it is not like I am money fishing anyway...  I fish for fun, and part of the fun is playing the fish, not just hogging one in as soon as you get the hook set...  I imagine that braid has its place in the fishing world, but not for this fisherman...  to expensive, and to much hassle....  just mho.

[roadwarrior]

I used braid exclusively fishing for striper on the Tennessee River. These are the reason's I don't anymore:

1. When floating a river in tight and turbulent water (especially when fishing with two or more guys at the same time), there are many situations where breaking the line is necessary. Braid is too hard to break, smaller diameters dig into the spool and the line can cut or badly burn the fisherman.

2. Although braid is very strong, it is not very tough or abrasion resistant. The river I fish contains the "Rocks from Hell". Braid will cut and fray.

3. We fish an area immediately below the Pickwick Dam. Moving into "the boils" is a fast, quick run the last two hundred yards or so. The wrapping issue is huge in the wind that is created. That is (was) a problem much of the time.

So, I'm not opposed to braid and I see why it would be the line of choice for many fisherman in most situations. I'm just illustrating a situation where it is not.

[RoLo]

1. When floating a river in tight and turbulent water (especially when fishing with two or more guys at the same time), there are many situations where breaking the line is necessary. Braid is too hard to break, smaller diameters dig into the spool and the line can cut or badly burn the fisherman.

I have to agree with RW, braid can be nasty stuff to break-off, when breaking off is what you want to do.

On irreconcilable snags, I've wrapped powerpro braid 5 or 6 times around my hand, then pulled with all my might,

only to watch the line slice into the web of my hand. The alternative of course, is a line that breaks when you DON'T want it to.

As for line-burrowing, that's not an issue for me. On the snag described above, the braid of course will burrow somewhat

into the spooled line. Since I already know that, I'll simply strip off a few yards and retrieve the line before returning to fishing.

If I forget to do that, no big deal, the burrowed line will shorten my first cast, but after that it's business as usual.

I should tell you that I'm now using 30-lb braid on one of my spinning outfits and it casts 1/16 oz lures very well.

2. Although braid is very strong, it is not very tough or abrasion resistant. The river I fish contains the "Rocks from Hell". Braid will cut and fray.

I agree, but to a fault.

All line materials are vulnerable to crippling line-abrasion, furthermore, the difference in line-abrasion between

braided line & copolymer line is very small, and depends on the formula of both lines in the comparison.

I admit it, I'm sold on braid :-*

Roger

[dodgeguy]

the solution to that is a small wood dowel to wrap the braid around.no cut hands and %99 of the time you get your lure back but it may need new hooks.if you are using sufix braid of equivalent diameter of a mono you would normally use then abrasion resistance is not an issue.

[kbkindle]

kbkindle    nothing  ia'm a 100%  powerpro user  i have used about every mono  floro and braid made and you cant beat  power pro.   i have caught more fish with power pro  because of its sensitivity  than any other line   cranks go just as deep  and etc  the only problem i have is it hard to see line move on a jig , worm, tube ,etc  so i just ordered the hi vise color rather than green   when i would go up northern wisconsin  and catch some smallmouth on beds   with mono i could not tell all the times they had the bait but would see there gills flare  now i can feel the  line  so that proves to me how sensitive it is   as far as it raping around rod tip it does'n happen enough to bother  with besides you can hardley get a back lash with braid when you would throw it into the wind. and if your getting break offs you are not tying a good polomer knot kb

[dodgeguy]

kb,good point about backlashes.you cannot beat braid for lack of backlashes.it's also easier to get them out of if you know how.

[cart7t]

I tried braid when it first came out.  I've used numerous brands as well as experimenting with the fusions.  All in all it never turned into the replacement for monofilament because of all the negatives and the cost.  

1. It digs in on the spool

2. Not very abrasion resistant

3. When wet, wraps on the rod.

4. Worthless on spinning setups

5. Impossible to break off when hung deep on the bottom. You wind up cutting a lot of line off.

6. Cost

That's enough for me.  I use it occasionally on Flippin applications but it has too many negatives.

[castaway]

I have been using 30 lb Tuf line braid while jigging the weedbeds with good results, that is until I broke 4" off the rod tip  where the line wrapped around the rod tip on a pitch. I got bit and instantly set the hook, not looking to notice the line wrapped the rodtip. :'( I hear people using 50+ lb test braid.When are the rod  manufacturers going to say warranty is void upon the use of braided lines ?What  extra wear and tear are you putting on the anti reverse bearings, not to mention the sppol shaft assembly when using braid ? I love the way braid cuts through the heavy weeds, but I am not going to use braid anymore.I like the carbon pro line Lightnin' recommended to me, except the zebra mussels raise hell with it just about as bad as it did with braided line. I fish the carbon pro shallow and mono for the rocky, deeper areas.I think there was no reason to use braid, except for the fact that it was popular and the bait monkey made me buy it. ;D I really do beleive that mono works just as well as braid for most fishing applications.I also beleive its slides through the thick matted milfoil I jig fish better than braided line did, you just can't cut through the weeds like braid can. Would I recommend you to switch to fluorocarbon, or mono ? No, fish what ever you feel works best for you. Ivan

[Lightninrod]

fishbear:  I get my German-made Maxima here.

As far as the expence of braid(and fluro) goes, all you have to do is fill the first half of the spool with a cheap mono and the outer half with the more expensive line.  Refilling when necessary(fluro lasts a long time) just requires spooling new line on the outer half of the spool.

Dan

[fishbear]

Quote

fishbear:  I get my German-made Maxima here.

As far as the expence of braid(and fluro) goes, all you have to do is fill the first half of the spool with a cheap mono and the outer half with the more expensive line.  Refilling when necessary(fluro lasts a long time) just requires spooling new line on the outer half of the spool.

Dan

Thanks Dan,

that is the Maxima I grew to love drift fishing rivers, and fighting big fish...

Thanks again, gotta go place an order..

[flechero]

Chris,

Your post suggests that using mono is wrong... because you do well with braid.  You know as well as I do that what works best for one doesn't work best for all.

Right, wrong or indifferent,  I am more successful with mono , I like and have more confidence in mono.  So tell me, why would I want to change?  (yes, I have used braid... and did not like it)

[Fish Chris]

Okay, I guess the next logical question to any of you who don't like, or won't use braid is, "Why do you suppose so many of you have had so many problems with braid.... Yet these problems rarely, if ever, affect me ?

A few things I do have to respond to though; Breaking off braid when you are hopelessly snagged is "most definately easier" that breaking off stretchty arse mono ! I simply reel down to remove the slack, hold onto my spool (not my line) and give it a sharp yank. As soon as I have broken it off (or straightened the hook) and before reeling in, I simply pull out about 5 feet of line, before reeling back in, to unbury the minor dig in which is normal, and most easily fixable.

On the other hand, when my buddies snag with mono, even just like 12 or 15 lb, the next thing you see them doing is this big twist, and pull, twist, and pull some more ! :-) I always have to rip on them.... I call it "the mono dance" ! :-) LOL

So, braid is not as abrasion resistent around certain types of rock, and some fishes teeth ? This is the primary reason I always use a high quality fluorocarbon leader. Yes, with most aspects of terminal tackle, I do agree that fewer connections is better, but a "well tied" blood knot, or uni to uni, is so strong, and the benefits of using a real (excuse me.... braided :-)) main line, plus having a very abrasion resistent, low visibility fluorocarbon leader, are just too great "not" to add that one, very strong connection.

Ghoti, your whole post is just completely backwards to my experiences, but of course your welcome to your opinion. Again, the only thing I could ask you is, why do you suppose braided line causes "you" this long list of problems, but provides nearly nothing but great benefits for me ?

Anyway, a guy can either use braided line, or leave me with the advantage ;-)

Peace,

Fish

[Hawgin]

"Okay, I guess the next logical question to any of you who don't like, or won't use braid is, "Why do you suppose so many of you have had so many problems with braid.... Yet these problems rarely, if ever,  affect me ?"

"Again, the only thing I could ask you is, why do you suppose braided line causes "you" this long list of problems, but provides nearly nothing but great benefits for me ? "

Wow Fish Chris, while I am certainly impressed by your pictures of the big stipers you catch, and I will gladly admit you have more fishing knowledge than I do, but don't you think you're getting a little full of yourself?  I live in KC not Cali.  The majority of the bass lakes around here have 4-6 lbers in them, and as much as I like using braid I'm not best served using for all applications.  I'm glad you like braided line, and it works for you, but don't treat the rest of us like idiots just because we don't prefer your type of fishing and your set ups.

[Fish Chris]

Hey Hawgin, you asked, "Don't I think I am getting a bit full of myself" ??? No. Not whatsoever, and I sincerely apoligize if you took it that way.

It's just that after using mono for more than 20 years, and then braid for the last 13, I feel I have plenty experience to base my "mono vs. braid" argument on.  

Hey Flech, it's just because "braid is better" :-) LOL

Seriously though guys, I have to admit, the first trip I tried braid, I hated it ! (but it was too expensive to throw away.... and at the time, a pretty long drive to get any kind of fishing line) It just didn't do anything like the mono I was so used to. The second trip probably was not much better...... although it was kind of amazing, when I was able to straighten a 5/0 stainless steel spinnerbait hook, and retrieve a brand new $4 lure ! I'll bet it took me 10 trips to start to get used to it, but as I did, I began to see more and more benefits. Too, it really helped when I went from that first "low grade Gorilla braid" and stepped up to Fenwick Iron Thread, and then to Spiderwire. I bet it took several months before braid felt completely normal too me, and maybe a few more, before I felt I could never go back to mono.

So therefore, when I hear guys talk about how they tried it, and hated it, I just have to believe that a large percentage of these guys, just never allowed themselves to get over the hump.... or past the learning curve, whatever you want to call it.

In any case, I certainly would not get mad at anybody, if they believe mono is better, and I see no reason for anyone to get mad at me for my opinion. You guys should already know that I am a whacked-out, fanatical, fish-headed fool, anyway ? How could a guy spend as much of his lifes energies on fishing, as I do, and "not" develop a few VERY strong personal opinions ?

Peace,

Fish

PS, Many of the best trophy bass guys I know, use mono..... so your not by yourself on that crazy train :-) (come on.... I'm trying to be light hearted about this :-)