Spiral Guides?

[Laggyman]

While looking around for a good Pixy rod, I came up to the Daiko BRSC-64L L/F 6'4 rod. Looks good with Titanium coated SiC guides and all that other fancy stuff, but the 1 feature I am worried about is the "Spiral guide" system.

http://www.f-daiko.com/lure/fresh-burroughs_c/up/3-spiral.jpg

What is the purpose of this, and would it affect my casting range?? It looks like a broken rod with the guides stuck on using glue. I'm aware Megabass has a model with this feature as well. Has anybody used one of these rods before??

[Lightninrod]

My MB Shiryu has the spiral-placed guides and it works just fine

That placement is suppose to offset the torque in the hookset and not rip the hooks out....I think :-?.  The only difference that is noticable to me is the extra noise that the line makes as it passes thru the guides.

Dan

[flechero]

When set up properly, you will see improvements over the traditional "guides up" set up. I only build spiral wrapped casting rods. Casting should not be affected in any noticable amount and torque will be reduced, causing less fatigue in the fisherman and less stress on the blank. And some like the way it looks. ...lol

The double footed guides in your pic are total overkill in a bass rod, but functionally they won't do any harm... just a little heavier than singles.

[Laggyman]

Nice Fish and Darned nice looking rod!!   I think that's the rod I saw today at the tackleshop. I didn't bother looking for the price tag  ;D

So the next-generation rods are going to have spiral-guides?? Sounds like something good!! But I still hate the way it looks.... Well, functionality > looks so I guess I'll try it out.

Those double footed guides must be a way to bring the price up.. So much for "High"-end rods.....

Thanks for the quick replies!

[flechero]

So the next-generation rods are going to have spiral-guides??

Not likely.... the world is slow to change, spirals look so different that i think many companies are scared to go that route until it's proven by a few.  ...lol  Look for only a couple companies to offer this for a while.  

[Guest avid]

So the next-generation rods are going to have spiral-guides??

Not likely.... the world is slow to change, spirals look so different that i think many companies are scared to go that route until it's proven by a few. ...lol Look for only a couple companies to offer this for a while.

It also has that "gimmicky" look to me.  I would need alot of convincing before making the change to that style.

[castaway]

The Roberts wrap has been around since the 1930's. :-/ I have a Rogue blanked flipping stick with the guides spiral wrapped , I didn't see any advantage over the regular guide system, the person who built the rod for me said it was easier for him to use the spiral wrap. I am not sure what his reason was,it seems as though it should have been more difficult ? Ivan

[flechero]

So the next-generation rods are going to have spiral-guides??

Not likely.... the world is slow to change, spirals look so different that i think many companies are scared to go that route until it's proven by a few. ...lol Look for only a couple companies to offer this for a while.

It also has that "gimmicky" look to me. I would need alot of convincing before making the change to that style.

Avid,

You can try one of mine at fork if you like. (unless roadwarrior wants to hog them!) I'll try to bring a couple extras so you can see if you like them. All of mine are bumper spirals, meaning only one transition guide. It took me exactly one day to decide I didn't want to fish guides up, any more. It takes a little time to get used to the look but if you just fish it doesn't take long to be sold on the performance. (if you doubt any of what I'm saying, ask ReelMech, Alpster or justtrying... they are all spiral converts as well.

Here is a paste from the guy who talked me into trying it:

The first rod I used a spiral on was a 6'8" Medium X-fast St. Croix SCIII

(Avid). It's a great utility rod. Over the summer, I ended up using it for

large willow leaf spinner baits. I had also had the same rod in a conventional

set-up (guides on top). I was absolutely amazed at how little strain the new

spiral rod put on my wrist. As I'm sure you're aware, large spinnerbaits on

fast graphite rods are tough on one's wrists, especially if you use them all day

long. I had never thought that the torque of guides trying to twist over (from

top to bottom) really had any effect. But, it apparently has enough effect to

cut the wrist strain by a good 50-70%. The same effect is had when you have

one of those days where you catch a lot of fish and are worn out... it is way less

tiring with the spiral.

That was from an email he sent me over a year ago.  It actually makes me thing of you now, having read of your elbow, wrist and shoulder troubles.  Food for thought.

[Alpster]

So the next-generation rods are going to have spiral-guides??

Not likely.... the world is slow to change, spirals look so different that i think many companies are scared to go that route until it's proven by a few.  ...lol  Look for only a couple companies to offer this for a while.  

It also has that "gimmicky" look to me.  I would need alot of convincing before making the change to that style.

ask ReelMech, Alpster or justtrying... they are all spiral converts as well.

I didn't play golf untill I was 35 years old. I thought it looked silly and boring, now I have tried it and I love the game. I never fished with a spiral wrapped rod until I built my flippinstick. (you may also test drive my rods at Fork) It looks funny, but it works like you won't believe. I have another spiral wrapped rod (short med. hvy. pitchin stick) on the dryer right now and will be building a spiral wrapped swimbait rod next month. You have to fish with one for a while to know that rods should have the guides on the bottom. I am fortunate to be able to build my own rods and I will always put the guides where they belong, on the bottom.   JMHO

Ronnie

[justtrying]

for anyone who thinks there's not a reason for spiral wrapped rods, i have a "trial" for you.

take a deep diving crankbait, work it for a half day with a spiral wrapped rod. ...THEN, try to work it for an hour w/standard rod. ...i won't have to say a word.   When you go back to the standard rod, the torque feels like it will "ring your wrist" off!

EVERY new rod i build has spiral wrap ....AND, i've taken the high end rods that i continue to use & have converted them over.

yeah, i like 'em

ronnie

[Fish Chris]

Well, first off, I'm about a 95% spinning guy..... But I do have a couple baitcasters; One micro-light designed for Kokanee trout, and one light saltwater set up.... both of which I use for Sturgeon.... big time battlers, which would tend to give me some line twist issues, to use spinning gear with (although I smoked the Bat Rays this Summer, to 110 lbs.... typical 40 to 60 minute fights... all on spinning gear, without much problem... but anyways)

One of the things that I don't like about baitcasters, is that being a hard core spinning guy, I'm not used to having to keep my guides up, even though they "want to spin down". Therefor, I'd just love to try a spiral wrapped baitcasting rod......

I'm sure my micro-light model would have to be custom built for me though..... and other than the standard guides, I really like my light saltwater rod too. Plus, I hear its harder to re-wrap a rod, than it is to just build a new custom one from scratch.....

Anyway, I know a couple of hard-core, bait casting, pro anglers, who swear by spiral wraps !

Hmmmm,

Fish

[Guest avid]

Flechero and Alpster;

The torque on the wrist issue is BIG for me.  I don't need  to repeat yet again, the physical problems I have suffered this past year.

I appreciate your offer to "test drive" the spiral placed guides.  It is very generous of you guys, and I would really enjoy the opportunity to try out a new concept (at least it's new for me) in field conditions.

I'll tell you what.

I'll put up not one, but TWO of RW's GLoomis rods as collateral.

How's that for a deal  

[Laggyman]

What's this "Torque" you guys mention? I don't use fast movers much so I guess that's why I don't understand.  

[Alpster]

What's this "Torque" you guys mention? I don't use fast movers much so I guess that's why I don't understand.  

Torque is the natural tendency of any rod to turn the guides in the direction of the line when under a load. If you want to feel what this is like, take the reel off of any baitcasting rod and tie a 10' length of line to the hook keeper or handle. Run it through the guides and tie the other end to any fixed object. Hold the rod in one hand with the guides up. With the side of a finger on the other hand under the first guide from the grip, lift the rod to put pressure on the line (load the rod). As you add more pressure, relax your grip on the handle. The rod will always try to flip over and point the guides down. Try this experiment with your rod. The advantage of a spiral wrapped rod will become quickly apparent.

If the guides are up, you are fighting more than the fish. JMHO

Ronnie

[flechero]

I'll tell you what.

I'll put up not one, but TWO of RW's GLoomis rods as collateral.

;D

[Laggyman]

Torque is the natural tendency of any rod to turn the guides in the direction of the line when under a load. If you want to feel what this is like, take the reel off of any baitcasting rod and tie a 10' length of line to the hook keeper or handle. Run it through the guides and tie the other end to any fixed object. Hold the rod in one hand with the guides up. With the side of a finger on the other hand under the first guide from the grip, lift the rod to put pressure on the line (load the rod). As you add more pressure, relax your grip on the handle. The rod will always try to flip over and point the guides down. Try this experiment with your rod. The advantage of a spiral wrapped rod will become quickly apparent.

If the guides are up, you are fighting more than the fish. JMHO

Ronnie

Ahh I got the idea.  Not that I hook up a fish big enough to give me any problems fighting the fish + torque  ;D

[MickD]

The torque argument is less of an issue now that we are using "micros" and other small guides that are located very low to the blank.  I personally don't feel the advantage, but some do.  It can easily be demonstrated, as stated above.  The more powerful the blank the more the torque advantage can be felt.

 

I agree with those who say there is no casting advantage or disadvantage to spiral.

 

A custom builder may be able to cut one guide from the count with spiral, and since it will be near the tip, that is advantageous to sensitivity.

 

  With very light power blanks the use of spiral will prevent the tip from twisting 180 degrees when under heavy load.  I like that, although I have rods that do that and they have never broken.  With the small guides used today, spirals don't look as "goofy" as they used to.