BFS = UL ?

[bulldog1935]

This is the erroneous equation that gets repeated on BR.  

BFS is a vehicle to fish threadline on baitcast tackle. 

If you read this article, the first and last points I got in were about threadline.  

https://www.bassresource.com/fishing/finesse-101.html

 

Threadline is any line with diameter in the ballpark of #1 silk thread.  The silk braid test is 4-lb.  The diameter is also equivalent to 4-lb mono.  Good fluoro is about 6-lb test here, and PE braids here range from 10-lb to 25-lb (yes, there's that much variance in PE braid).  

 

The range of BFS spools out there will give you working capacity from PE#0.4 (2-lb mono) to PE#2.5 (10-lb mono)

 

What we call spinning reels were introduced in Britain in the 30s.  They were all UL size by modern standards, but their work was very far from panfish on a short para UL rod.  

They were all called Threadline reels.  

CAP on the left was introduced in 1936 (1947 4th model w/ A/R - you might recognize the Mitchell 304 it became in 1954).  The only example I have loaded with original threadline is the Allcock-Stanley on the right.  

 

 

From design to production, these reels were intended for Atlantic salmon on long progressive cane rods fishing 4-lb silk braid.  

 

What you gain with BFS is the ability to fish lines of comparable diameter on shallow lightweight spools.  

Yes, BFS gives you the ability to cast lighter lures farther (farther than equivalent spinning tackle if it's set up right).  

 

 

The rods that take advantage of BFS are progressive taper - extreme wide lure range on both ends.  

Very different from the short para rods with narrow lure range in the US postwar tradition (and micro rods really came on in the late 70s).  

Even 1 to 7 g in a 5' stream trout rod is a wide lure range - and baitfinesse rods go much further. here, 1.5 to 20 g in a 7'3" rod.  

 

What that high lure weight end tells you is this rod has the backbone to turn a big fish.  In comparison, para UL rods flexing deep into the butt are made so you feel outclassed turning a bluegill.  

 

 

Does it cost an arm and a leg to try BFS?  Well no, you may be able to find a $30 spool that swaps into a reel you already have - even your Black Max.  Get some thin line, pick a decent ML rod that will cast light lures off its soft tip and knock your lights out.  

[ska4fun]

Where the finesse aspect rests when throwing a 20g lure?

[bulldog1935]

Same-same in a 6'7" bass rod.  

And I'm pretty sure the topic is BSF, not SFB.  

 

Since I'm here, the difference between para(bolic) and progressive rod tapers.  Casting increasing weight, para taper loads more of the total rod length.  They're characterized by a fast tip and increasing flex through the mid and butt, narrow lure weight range.  Para taper is how rod designer gets maximum cast distance from the shortest rod, since they're loading more of the total rod length.  (and note you can get the same line speed from a longer progressive rod)

Progressive taper loads in a band moving progressively down the rod as you cast more weight.  They're characterized by a short, soft tip, long fast mid, and powerful butt, wide lure weight range.  Characteristically more forgiving and accurate.  Hopefully you see the Perfect For BFS here.  

 

The two rod curves are both (Smith) 5'5" bass rods, the same light-end rating. The progressive rod on the curve caught the bass in my first post.

In practice, no rod is completely para or progressive, but rod design mixes elements of both, so rods are really more-para or more-progressive.  Nobody buys a rod to fish it full time at the high-lure-weight rating.  I buy all my rods to fish at the low-end rating.  

E.g., this MH rod fishes 1/4 oz most of the year, and I'm happy to have the 1 oz capability for big winter topwaters - it shines on both ends and works both on a winter day - yeah, other than progressive, it's off topic - I don't match this rod with a BFS reel.  

[Tennessee Boy]

@bulldog1935 you done us all a service by spreading the word about BFS on the site.  
 

I purchased a Shimano Alderbaran BFS last year to try it out and was not impressed with its ability to cast light lures.   I decided that BFS was not for me and that I would stick with my spinning reels.  Earlier this year I purchased a Diawa Silver Wolf thinking it might work better with lower diameter braid.  I was not planning to fish finesse lures with it since I was doing just fine with my spinning tackle.   I was blown away by the Silver Wolf’s ability to case very light lures farther than my spinning tackle.  This is a game changer that everyone should be aware of.  I’m not retiring my spinning rods just yet.   There is more to consider than just casting distance but I acknowledge that the game has changed and I will be rethinking my choices going forward.

[redmeansdistortion]

As always, good stuff @bulldog1935.  Where I am in the Great Lakes, BFS can be used with great success for most species outside of musky, king salmon, and sturgeon.  With some of them, I can get away with running a shorter UL or L power rod, but when it comes to Great Lakes smallies, Atlantics, steelhead, coho, and lake run browns, something with more backbone works best so I will go with a 6'+ ML to keep those fish under control.  Here's one I got last fall; ABU 2500C spooled with #1.0 with a 6lb Maxima leader, Smith Troutin'Spin 6'5" ML 3-12g, and a Daiwa Silver Creek Minnow 50S.  

 

[bulldog1935]

@redmeansdistortion

Yes, kings are big game, and demand room to run - good drag and a lot of line to peel.  

Silvers (coho) - everything about them reminds me of redfish, from sight-fishing their wakes in side sloughs, to their shoulders and stamina in a fight.  

[Fishing_Rod]

Greetings,

Thank You for the information. It has been helpful. I have only just this past weekend explored BFS angling. My initial experience has been positive and I find that BFS is closer to my preferred UL spinning gear. Admittedly, the purchase of a new BFS reel I loaded it with 6 pound mono and did not spool it with my principle 4 pound mono line, so I expected a difference due to line difference. My research and personal experience using 4 and 6 pound mono on casting reels identified the occasional line intrusion between the spool and reel frame. I figured since this was an initial experience I would use the larger line to get started with just to provide an advantage for a better user experience. It worked well during my few hours of successful angling using the new BFS reel.

 

It handled rather well under the load and strain of a few large strong fish. I did greatly appreciate the drag clicker which is familiar to my UL spinning gear. It enhances the thrill of the fish struggle and surges. While the casting quality is very close with regard to distance with accuracy, this should improve with more experience, however the initial session was impressively fun. The retrieve is where I found a significant difference. I base this on a comparison of my 500 series UL spinning reel to the BFS reel. Both have similar overall weight and line capacity. The retrieve ratio both on the specification and in use have the BFS reel being faster. My angling applications finds it is not so important when working the lure but to pick up line slack. It is faster and easier on the BFS. I did not appreciate it until I realized how smooth the workflow was without having to manipulate a bail.

 

Typically I use 2 inch curly tailed soft plastic grubs on 1/32 oz jigs so the bait package, which could be roughly 1 ~ 2 grams. So my use of a three inch curly tailed grub on a 1/16 oz jig is heavier than I typically use, so no direct comparison, yet. I will say the casting experience is close. I did not have to greatly adapt for an early release point to get the spool started up. I also didn't have to use much casting input as with other casting reels.

 

I am enthusiastic to bring in a new aspect of angling. BFS has addressed a concern when using casting reels for me. I typically don't use many large or heavy baits, so with a BFS reel this brings casting more in line with my angling preference.

I greatly appreciate the information shared on BassResource by the members. It was very helpful in guiding my decision to explore BFS for another new angling aspect. Be well, and cheers!

[FishTank]

I some how posted this below in the wrong thread so if you see it twice, that's why...

 

Even though I feel new to BFS gear, in the modern sense, I totally forgot I had one of these as a kid.  There were different versions. Some came in a violin style case with a 5 piece rod, an extra rod tip that was stiffer, and a few baits and lures (all geared towards "micro" fishing). In my day, they were meant for crappie and panfish and if you caught a bass on it, it was strictly by accident but that accident happened a lot. 

 

They were fun to fish but the concept didn't seem to catch on with bass fisherman. It seemed at that time that the old adage "Small baits equals small fish" kept anglers away.  All I know is that it was fun.

 

 

[bulldog1935]

How about that, I was just talking about micro rods of the late 70s.  

This rod defines short para pocket rocket.  - it really is a stunning light-lure distance caster, without any backbone to turn a fish.  For some reason, the Japanese call para taper "sticky"

@FishTank

I received Minicast just like it when I was 19 - Christmas present.  

Following May, I landed a 6-1/2-lb bass on it - my dad was freaking - get it in the boat.  

I fished through the reel on white bass.  One night that summer on a lighted tee-pier on Lake LBJ, I caught one every third cast, casting out 1/16 oz Panther Martin, sitting down to let the whole line sink, and exactly following their path up the sandy cove bottom to the dock light.  They were sweeping through the light to feed and running back to the cooler deep water.  Others on the dock ran to the bait shop in town and came back with spinners, but I was the only one who caught fish - 17 on my stringer.  Made a fish fry for all the neighbors (nothing beats my mom's hush puppies).  

@Fishing_Rod welcome to BR

and 6-lb mono is definitely in the #1 thread ballpark.  

[Fishing_Rod]

Greetings FishTank, and et al.,

Golly, @FishTank your post is significant to me. I have several generations and continue to use  the Daiwa Mini-spin and Mini-cast outfits. Mine are from the mid 70s through to ones purchased within the last 10 years. I have greatly enjoyed them throughout the decades.

 

Although these days I don't hike around as much for my angling adventures. Still, I prefer using lighter weight gear that is well built. I managed to connect with many modest size fish using the small angling outfits.

I generally preferred the spinning version due to the better drag. The mini-cast did not have a drag that was what I wanted. I found the drag did not have a gradual adjustment. It was either not enogh or simply too much. It was also not that smooth either. That is until my recent discovery of lubricating the drag elements on the spincast reel. A drop of oil was all that was needed for the drag to match the quality of the spinning reel. Yes, it took several decades but I got there. It is possible for an old dog to learn. So now I'm happier using the mini-casters in taunting fish. My only remaining wish is to figure out how to get the stink out of the plastic pistol grip handle. Even after all these years there is still a chemical smell when handling it. The spinning model has a foam grip, no offensive odor there, except for old fish slime.

Appreciate the discussion. Be well and cheers!

[bulldog1935]

@Fishing_Rod

Wading limestone headwaters creeks in the TX hill country is our version of bust-in stream trout fishing, and we call our endemic spotted bass "Texas Brook Trout" - they occupy the same fast niche in warmwater that trout do in cold.  

 

There are several headwaters where you can't park on county roads.  To access those, we bike-fish, park on a state road, pedal to several county road crossings in a morning, where we roll our bikes into the flood plain sendero and cafe-lock to a tree - you're out of the county right of way, and into state navigation rights.  

BFS 1500CI with telescoping Smith stream rod, 1-7 g - the collapsed combo fits in a bike half-frame bag, and travels rigged to fish.  

[NYWayfarer]

I have come to realize that the majority of river Smallmouth fishing I do would be ideal for a BFS baitcaster. Things like a weightless 4” worm on a 2/0 worm hook, small Ned rigs, 1/16oz jighead with those micro finesse Z-Man baits.

 

I bought a shallow spool for my Abu Garcia Revo X spooled it with 8lb line and it works great on a medium casting rod for the worm and Ned. I want to go smaller…

 

I bit the bullet and purchased a Shimano Curado BFS XG reel. It’s on the way and should be here for the weekend.

 

 

[redmeansdistortion]

21 minutes ago, NYWayfarer said:

I bit the bullet and purchased a Shimano Curado BFS XG reel. It’s on the way and should be here for the weekend.

Experiment with the magnets.  Two of them are removable with the Shimano FTB so you can tailor it to your style.  I fish my Calcutta Conquest BFS without those extra magnets and it throws very well.  You're going to love the Curado.

[bulldog1935]

Shimano Magestic B68L-BFS-2 

2-15 g

That's only 1/8 oz lower top end and on a 7-inch shorter rod.  

No problem on either of the fish in my first post.  

good thing no one put you in charge

[FishTank]

https://baitfinesseempire.com/product/shimano-majestic-rod-series/

 

Looks like a BFS rod to me.

 

I think I have 3 BFS rods that are rated up to a 1/2 oz but I don't think I would throw a 1/2 oz lure on any of them. Rod ratings are just guide lines. They tend to be all of the place and until you actually fish the rod in question, you don't really know. 

 

 

[NYWayfarer]

The Shimano Curado BFS XG has arrived. I spooled it with some 8lb Stren and mounted it on a 6’8’ Powel Max medium ex-fast action casting rod.

 

 

To start I am going throw some 4” weightless Senko’s this weekend. Once I get used to it I will go lighter.

 

I have a 6’ ultralight casting rod from Temu on the way. The Goture Fire Phoenix, gotta love those names. $18 and free shipping. If I like that I have my eye on the Mavllos Plume ultralight casting rod next. Eventually I will spring for a Dobyn’s Sierra ultra finesse rod.

[Glenn]

Ok guys, I don't know what it is about BFS topics, but it seems to bring out the ugly in some people.  Posts have been removed, warnings handed out.... 

 

Reminder: Treat everyone with respect!

 

If you can't do that, you'll be shown the door.

[ghost]

Bulldog, do you have a chart or something what PE Go line is to lb weight rating? Like 1.5 go(not sure on the spelling)  is comparable to what lb mono test and diameter? 

[MN Fisher]

^ Here you go

 

[bulldog1935]

@ghost - right here, friend

PE#, dia., equiv. mono, braid test (varies greatly by braid mfg, and spool capacity is based on diameter.)

Per Jun Sonada, you can fish down to PE#1 on a reel with a swapped-in BFS spool.  Smaller than that, you should be using a reel with increased LW pitch to prevent line dig., e.g., Silver Wolf, Air, etc.  

All that said, I have no troubles fishing PE#0.8 on BFS-mod Ambassadeur 1500C, and Steez I showed in my first post, which is my best light-lure caster.  

[ghost]

Thank you MNFisher and Bulldog1935! You guys are the best established!

 

Now all the foreign confusion is solved!

[bulldog1935]

@ghost

thanks again, it was a great question that allowed me to sneak in some useful stuff.  

To me, it's the US system that rates everything by lb-test that confuses everyone.  

The rest of the world uses diameter for lines and line capacity, and Japan sticks to their traditional silk thread diameter scale, even using it on mono and fluoro leader.  (#3 leader, #1.5 1520 large frame spinning spool)

 

[Fishing_Rod]

Greetings and Happy Friday All,

@bulldog1935 and others for sharing in this thread, I greatly appreciate the information and adventure exchange. I aspire to someday experience the famous "TX Brook Trout". They look be a grand adventure.

 

Through this research on BFS, I realize it brings the casting experience closer to what seek, simple as that. Another option to enhance the angling experience.

 

Thank You for providing details and images on the bits of equipment used and reference. It is helpful both for those with and without experience in BFS. The narrative and photos are great! I find it useful when considering purchases. It is great to know what am I getting for the money. I also want to know how others find utility with this piece of gear or that other piece. Please keep up the information exchange.

 

My personal experiences with telescopic fishing rods has been mixed. Back in the day, mid late 70s was my initial encounter with some no-name brand general purpose fishing rod. It was great for those bike and motor bike adventures deep into the creeks and canyons. Much better to have that compact unit for travel in my backpack. I realized just how important it was not to loose the plastic protector to keep things from breaking in transport. I ended up creating an alternate using a segment of garden hose split down the middle.

 

My most prominent memory of using telescopic poles was with my dear uncle catching large, 3 ~ 30 pound catfish (channels and flatheads), in the Gila river. One nite the catching action was great and we went well into the night and early morning struggling with these strong catfish. Well, that was too much for one of the poles. As my uncle connected with a strong catfish, each of the segments popped, one at a time in a slow several second progression. We both laughed as it broke down to the last guide. Then it was basically on to just the reel, and when that bound up we had to walk the remain line backwards out of the water. What an adventure!

 

Currently I'm simply using a casting crappie pole with my BFS reel. That has provided enough action to work my casts with accuracy and distance. Yesterday evening I did experiment tossing a two inch curly tailed grub on a 1/32 oz jig. I always wonder about the impressions my neighbors have of me practicing casts in the front yard. While doable it is not all that easy. I'm having to impart that early release point again to get it sent properly. Hey, it is all good learning for me. I will eventually change the line to four pound mono and then try and see how that goes.

 

For now I'm just going to work that bait package on a 1/16 oz jig and simply have some more fun using the new reel. Time on the water, right! My current challenge is the weather. Sun, wind, rain, it is all good. Lightning, well that is a no go. Shocking, ain't it? I'm enjoying the "Better Fishing System", at least that is how I see it. My gratitude to all for information shared. Be well and Cheers!

[bulldog1935]

@Fishing_Rod my back acre is 150' wide, with a clearing the full width, and conveniently spaced wild shrubs for distance markers (also make good skip-cast targets).  

I'm able to do distance trials swapping different rods, spools and spool bearings.  

Since I shore-fish salt, mostly in winter imitating glass minnows (tide passes and nite-lite dock fishing a navigation channel), dialing in distance and reliable casts are very important for that niche.  

 

[NYWayfarer]

I took the Curado BFS XG out for a spin at lunchtime today. Was able to cast it for about 40 minutes to get a feel for it.

 

I am impressed. So far it is everything I hoped it would be. Need to hook and land a fish to complete the test. I had some bites but failed to set the hook.