Tying a Palomar knot, a technical question.

[N.Y. Yankee]

Tying a Palomar, the loop that goes down around the lure and back up. Should the loop lay on top of the hook eye against the knot or should it be on top of the knot against the main line? Are you supposed to pull both main line and tag together to tighten the knot or each one separately? I need to perfect the technique.

[roadwarrior]

On top of the knot then tighten tags separately.

[casts_by_fly]

Top of the knot, further part of the knot up the mainline.  if you have it on the middle of the knot or on the eye it will cut the rest of the knot in two.

 

I lube the knot with spit and pull both tag ends while the knot is very loose.  You're not cinching anything tight at that point so the line slides with no damage.  Then when it gets down to the last little bit snug them separately with the knot tightening first and then the loop that came over the knot last.

[Team9nine]

A third vote for the loop on top of the knot, but I differ somewhat from the previous two responses in that I simply pull both lines together at the same time to snug, then leave the knot as is, with no final cinching. I don't even wet the knot. With fluoro and mono, the line is stiff enough that the entire knot (loop and line) holds shape throughout the tightening process, so there is almost zero friction created by pulling/tightening the lines at the same time and pace - everything stays in good alignment and position. This is not the case with braid, where you’ll largely have to tighten by pulling primarily on a single line first, then cinching the other tight.

[garroyo130]

I had this question a while back and actually tested it. For me, the line seated at the hook was stronger every single time I tested. I snug them up separately, tighten them together. Youll know if you tightened it wrong bc it will get curly. 

[fin]

Good question. I always thought it was supposed to be on bottom, not on top.

 

Those little details can sometimes make a huge difference, and that detail is not shown in any of the illustrations.

 

Animatedknots shows it towards the bottom, kind of in the middle.

[TOXIC]

I’ll be the odd ball, when I tie my Palomar the loop starts on top of the lure, I bring it down over the lure and it comes up underneath.  I use my fingers to hold the loop somewhat open and pulled up my line towards the rod and cinch only the tag end that will get cut off.  

[LrgmouthShad]

I debated between bottom and top of the knot for a while. What I found is that the knot cinches most easily and finishes most naturally when the loop is on top of the knot, as other said. It should be fairly smooth to cinch the knot down

[flyfisher]

4 hours ago, TOXIC said:

I’ll be the odd ball, when I tie my Palomar the loop starts on top of the lure, I bring it down over the lure and it comes up underneath.  I use my fingers to hold the loop somewhat open and pulled up my line towards the rod and cinch only the tag end that will get cut off.  

I am not sure what the experts say but I agree with you on this one.  Knots should always be tightened by oulling the tag end, not the mainline, whenever possible

 

[fin]

I suggest you try this with a piece of shoestring, or something large enough so you can really see what's going on. When you do that, you'll see the answer is the loop goes towards the bottom, around the bight. You'll see that you end up with two pretty different things when you put it at the top or the bottom.

 

The point @TOXIC made about keeping the bight open with your fingers as you're bringing the loop around is good - it helps make it easier to be consistent with where you place the loop.

[TOXIC]

1 hour ago, fin said:

The point @TOXIC made about keeping the bight open with your fingers as you're bringing the loop around is good - it helps make it easier to be consistent with where you place the loop.

It also negates the need to “moisten” the line as you pull it taught.  ??

[throttleplate]

when done tying it take a closer look with a magnifying glass, i do when i tie leaders and jigs at home i will occasionally take a close look. Palomars look alot different from 20lb fluoro down to much smaller and tying 30lb the palomar looks less tightly compact.

[fin]

13 hours ago, throttleplate said:

when done tying it take a closer look with a magnifying glass, i do when i tie leaders and jigs at home i will occasionally take a close look. Palomars look alot different from 20lb fluoro down to much smaller and tying 30lb the palomar looks less tightly compact.

 

If you do it with shoestring you can see that when you put the loop on top, it's really hard to get it cinched down tight. There's a bit of a gap in there unless you really work at it. That maybe why it looks less compact.

[papajoe222]

I had to tie one to see where mine ends up. It’s on the bottom,not intentionally.  If tied correctly, without the lines crossing, as I pull the knot tight, the loop is drawn under the knot.  I don’t lube until it’s drawn down to the eye and then I pull on the tag end to eliminate the possibility of weakening the mainline.