Big Brain Bass?

[JediAmoeba]

Maybe not so big but, I thought this was an interesting article which is backed by science. I can say for certain the bass have gotten harder for me to catch in many places I go.

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.outdoorlife.com/story/fishing/the-science-on-why-bass-are-getting-harder-to-catch/%3famp

[Dreamer56]

Good article - thanks for posting that.

[WRB]

The vigor of the various bass species and sub strains dwindles over generations unless strong genetic individuals make a higher % of the population in weaker individuals.

Texas has had and continues to have the Share A Lunker program that adds strong vigor individuals annually based on growth rate. The were caught so they also genetically are aggressive.

California doesn’t have any program to raise bass, the fish are electro shocked and moved from an existing lake to a new lake. California hasn’t constructed a new lake in over 30 years. The Florida strain LMB were introduced in 1959, the vigor of our bass have declined tremendously and few aggressive FLMB exists in our lakes today. The Northern strain LMB introduced in 1890 remain more aggressive in the few lakes with that population, most have intragated with FLMB and influenced by decades of catch & release.

We need virgin bass with pure vigor genes to improve the catch rates.

Tom 

[A-Jay]

This 'Article' was initially published Sept 2020.

"Scientists" have been spewing out some version of either a tracking or catch & release 'study'

for years.  IMO, many seem like flavor of the month and have never offered anything tangibly useful.

It appears very difficult to replicate what happens on a day to day, week to week, month to month and year to year basis, on any lake, river or reservoir we fish, in any type of a 'controlled' environment.

Catching bass, draining ponds, sorting fish, re-stock fish, re-catch bass, resorting bass;

how does any of this 'science' relate to what we do on the water ?

One thought is, that it doesn't. 

It's fun to read though. 

In my basshead mind, those 'results' are like reading Tara cards.

We can assume or come to whatever conclusion we want, especially if it sells.

Or in this day & age, gets clicks and likes.

If we think it's harder to catch bass, then it just might be.

If we think that it's easier than ever to catch bass, maybe that will happen.

In the end, fish have to eat.

Being there when they do, seems very helpful.

I am constantly hearing that 'bass are opportunistic feeders'.

Not even sure what that even means.

Some folks feel that bass will eat all day.

I'll say that this train of thought might be one reason why bass seem 'harder' to catch.

That was fun.

A-Jay

 

 

 

 

 

 

[roadwarrior]

25 minutes ago, A-Jay said:

In my basshead mind, those 'results' are like reading Tara cards.

We can assume or come to whatever conclusion we want, especially if it sells.

 

                                       

 

[Susky River Rat]

I just fish 

[Bankc]

I blame the lack of acid rain, chlorofluorocarbons, and leaded gas pollution on bass being smarter these days.  They were easier to catch in the 70's and 80's when we kept them dumbed down with all of that stuff.  Sure, it also affected us into thinking disco and hair metal sounded good, but it was worth it!  

[WRB]

It’s difficult to comprehend that no fresh water Black Bass species are native west of the Rocky Mountains. Washington, Oregon, Arizona and California had no bass until they were transplanted from mid west and eastern states.

Everywhere else Black Bass are native with centuries of evolution to develop mass populations and their DNA.

Western bass are still adapting to their new environment. 

The reason Florida strain LMB were introduced was to increase a fading catch rate per man hour fished in San Diego lakes. Result was lower catch rates as the FLMB proved to be harder to catch on artificial lures.

The Success of the FLMB was they grew faster and bigger then the Northern strain bass introduced 70 years earlier.

Now the growth rates have stabilized with the lower catch rate overall, fewer and harder to catch but slightly larger Bass now populate our lakes.

Tom 

[AlabamaSpothunter]

1 hour ago, WRB said:

It’s difficult to comprehend that no fresh water Black Bass species are native west of the Rocky Mountains. Washington, Oregon, Arizona and California had no bass until they were transplanted from mid west and eastern states.

Everywhere else Black Bass are native with centuries of evolution to develop mass populations and their DNA.

Western bass are still adapting to their new environment. 

The reason Florida strain LMB were introduced was to increase a fading catch rate per man hour fished in San Diego lakes. Result was lower catch rates as the FLMB proved to be harder to catch on artificial lures.

The Success of the FLMB was they grew faster and bigger then the Northern strain bass introduced 70 years earlier.

Now the growth rates have stabilized with the lower catch rate overall, fewer and harder to catch but slightly larger Bass now populate our lakes.

Tom 

The Big Bass podcast documents how the Black Bass was moved west, and then all the history behind the S. Cal FLGM stockings and such.  So much great info, you'd know most of the guys in the stories or being interviewed I'm sure.   

 

The U.S. Gov't way back in the day sent a guy across the country on a train IIrc with N. LGM and stocked them in any body of water they came across.   

[Pat Brown]

40 minutes ago, AlabamaSpothunter said:

The Big Bass podcast documents how the Black Bass was moved west, and then all the history behind the S. Cal FLGM stockings and such.  So much great info, you'd know most of the guys in the stories or being interviewed I'm sure.   

 

The U.S. Gov't way back in the day sent a guy across the country on a train IIrc with N. LGM and stocked them in any body of water they came across.   

 

 

On lakes and ponds that I fish, I catch Northern strain in the winter and early spring and then I start catching more Florida strain in the summer and into the fall. But you can catch both all the time. It's pretty cool.

 

To some degree, I think they've hybridized all over the lakes and you're probably dealing with 80/20 or 60/40 crosses most of the time in these lakes or something to that effect.

[LrgmouthShad]

I am not well educated on this topic. I feel that sometimes, we can be our own worst enemy trying to catch bass. I also feel that some of the easiest fish for me to catch have been from relatively unpressured ponds.

[T-Billy]

On 7/14/2023 at 3:10 PM, Darnold335 said:

I just fish 

Yup. I get out when I can and fish the conditions the best I know how. Bass are bass and haven't changed any in the four+ decades I've been fishing for them.

[gim]

On 7/14/2023 at 5:24 PM, Pat Brown said:

On lakes and ponds that I fish, I catch Northern strain in the winter and early spring and then I start catching more Florida strain in the summer and into the fall.

Until recently, I was unaware that a state as far south as North Carolina had northern strain largemouth.

 

Makes perfect sense that the northern strain is more active in cooler temps and the florida strain is more active in warmer temps.  I have to assume the monster you recently caught was a florida strain.  An 11 pound northern strain largemouth is basically unheard of.  That's almost a full 3 pounds heavier than our state record here in MN.

 

Once the water temps drop below 50 degrees here in the fall, there is a noticeable drop off in largemouth bass activity.  They pretty much go into hibernation here in the winter under the ice.  Occasionally you hear of someone catching one while ice fishing but their activity level is dictated by their environment.  Four months locked in a bowl of ice tends to do that.

[Pat Brown]

6 minutes ago, gimruis said:

Until recently, I was unaware that a state as far south as North Carolina had northern strain largemouth.

 

Makes perfect sense that the northern strain is more active in cooler temps and the florida strain is more active in warmer temps.  I have to assume the monster you recently caught was a florida strain.  An 11 pound northern strain largemouth is basically unheard of.  That's almost a full 3 pounds heavier than our state record here in MN.

Yeah that was almost certainly a pure Florida strain.  It has the uneven scale size pattern to its belly and tail. You can sort of see the graduation from big to small scales disperses itself relatively unevenly on her torso and also her head and mouth and eyeballs are all comical looking which to me are hallmarks of the Florida strain.  Northern strain always look like football players to me.  They have big shoulders, small heads and mouths that don't fit their bodies if that makes sense.  When you say 'thats got a 5 lber mouth but weighs 8 lb' it's a northern  strain.  Their scales are more even and same size like.  They tend to be 'prettier'.  They can get huge though.  I caught a 9 lb Northern strain in February that probably would have gone 10 if I had caught her before she made her bed.

[gim]

@Pat Brown I was just about to ask if there was a noticeable visual marking characteristic between the two subspecies but you just answered it.

[Pat Brown]

1 minute ago, gimruis said:

@Pat Brown I was just about to ask if there was a noticeable visual marking characteristic between the two subspecies but you just answered it.

 

This is completely speculation, but I think at a very basic level if you're fishing offshore for big schools of bait fish oriented bass, you're probably targeting predominantly northern strain. And if you're fishing for small wolf packs or individual bass that are holding to pieces of cover and ambushing, you're probably fishing for Florida strain.  I can't back this up with science but it seems like on my lakes the Florida's like frogs and worms and usually you pull them off of their chosen cover and the Northern are more 'structure' oriented and key on baitfish and crawdads almost exclusively.  You'll find them more on rocky ledges and humps and swimming in 12 ft of water around shad balls.

 

I dunno maybe that's bunk juice.  I'm not a fisheries biologist.  Just my observations.

[WRB]

Florida strain LMB have over 69-72 lateral line pore scales (hole in the scale), under 59-68 it’s a Northern strain LMB.

Tom

[TnRiver46]

@gimruis, Georgia and Alabama also have northern strain LMB 

 

TN state record LM was a 14 lb northern strain for decades. The FL strain is only here now because the DNR stocked them. They are out completed by northern strain over time so they have to artificially keep the population going with stocking 

[Catt]

Big Brain Bass?

 

Nah! Tiny minds, otherwise I couldn't catch em!

[GrumpyOlPhartte]

I’m still trying to figger out how to tell if a bass is a virgin!  Just sayin’.  ?

[T-Billy]

5 hours ago, gimruis said:

An 11 pound northern strain largemouth is basically unheard of.  That's almost a full 3 pounds heavier than our state record here in MN.

OH state record is 13.13#. It was caught from a farm pond about 20 miles from my house. I'd be VERY surprised to see it broken. 

https://majorleaguefishing.com/archives/2014-02-04-record-breaker-the-story-of-roy-landsberger-s-ohio-state-record-largemouth-bass/

This fish definitely fits @Pat Brown's Northern LM description.

 

[Pat Brown]

@T-Billy fairly certain the NC record is a farm pond Florida.  Her lower jaw has that more exaggerated underbite and her proportions are more in line with her length.

 

That OH record looks like a Smallmouth with a largemouth head, which to me isn't a crazy thought when trying to grock Northern LMB physiological quirks.

 

NC record caught in 1991 at a farm pond on a crank bait. 15 lb 14 oz.

 

Probably stocked in the mid 80s but who honestly knows?

[gim]

2 hours ago, T-Billy said:

OH state record is 13.13#. It was caught from a farm pond about 20 miles from my house. I'd be VERY surprised to see it broken

Solely based on the quality of that photo it’s clearly from quite a while ago too. Same with the NC that @Pat Brown posted. The guy in the NC photo has some fashion issues with the fashion police too. Lol

 

Our MN state record is not as old. It was most recently broken in October 2005.

[T-Billy]

2 hours ago, gimruis said:

Solely based on the quality of that photo it’s clearly from quite a while ago too.

May 1976.

[Woody B]

IF (big if) Bass have gotten harder to catch I suspect fishing pressure is to blame, at least on major reservoirs. 

 I also believe there's 2 different ways bass are difficult to catch. 

Bass in busy lakes and rivers are used to all kinds of human and boat activity.  Many of these bass aren't spooked by boat movement, or even noise.  I believe lure selection is one of the most important things needed to catch these bass.   

 Bass in secluded, rarely fished ponds are spooked by all kinds of stuff.   They'll bolt away if they simply see your shadow.  Stealth is what's needed to catch them.   If they know you're there, they're gone.   Lure selection is way less important but you have to be able to make a cast that lands like a feather, without the bass seeing you or even knowing you're there.  

The BIG Bass in both type areas probably share the hard to catch traits from both areas.