Old Town announced their new BIGWATER ePDL+ 132

[immortl]

Old Town announced the new Bigwater ePDL+ 132 recently.  It now has a battery assisted pedal system (or it can be run solely on battery "cruise control").  Interesting innovation, I can see the crossover from electric bicycles.  Seems like it could appeal to those who like the autopilot but also want the ability to pedal.  No spot lock though.  Overall doesn't appeal to me, but could be exactly what someone else is looking for and it's always exciting to see innovation.

 

https://oldtownwatercraft.johnsonoutdoors.com/us/epdl

 

 

[casts_by_fly]

This has been theorized in the old town groups ever since old town filed the patent a couple years ago.  I can see the benefit for some people that might have range anxiety in a motorized boat or that like the control of a pedal kayak.  Its effectively giving the benefit of adding a torquedo on the back while keeping a PDL drive, except its all in one package.  I'm curious to see the speeds it will get.  The Bigwater is known for a speedy hull compared to the sportman series, though its not as stable for standing up and bass fishing.  I suspect 6 mph might be possible with power and pedal together unless there is a limiter in the system somewhere.

[padlin]

$6000 for a yak!

[MediumMouthBass]

@casts_by_fly i thought the Big Water 132 was one of the most stable kayaks Old Town offered?

[casts_by_fly]

It is stable if you're sitting and great for big water because its maneuverable and cuts through waves.  The standing stability is not as good as the sportsman series since they are basically plastic pontoons.  

58 minutes ago, padlin said:

$6000 for a yak!

I didn't see that part.  That's exhorbitant.  At that rate you might as well just put a torquedo or newport on the back of a regular bigwater pdl.  

[MediumMouthBass]

I cant remember the guy, but somewhere on youtube this guy had the PDL but with the drive out. He was walking up all the way to the front and back of the yak, jumping up and down all the way at the front and rear, standing on the gunwales etc... It took alot for him to get it to flip.

I originally was planning on buying the paddle version because of its stablility but the guy at my local shop told me they were planning on getting rid of the Big Water and renaming it the new MX, not sure how true that was now that they are going to release this. Seems like a cool kayak but not for the price.

[casts_by_fly]

Here is the sportman 120 in one of those videos.  the kayak will be more stable than most people.  The bigwater is a little more sleek and still a very stable boat.  Listening to people who have both, the PDL is more stable.

 

 

 

 

[MediumMouthBass]

@casts_by_fly Wow. Thanks for sharing that, the Big Water seemed really stable but that 120 gives a whole different meaning to the word stable in that video. My dad has the regular 120 but that pdl version would destroy it.

[casts_by_fly]

I think the autopilot is even a little beefier through the middle too. I’ve stood straddling the front edge of the motor to pitch but not as far as standing on the front hatch. 

[airshot]

On 7/11/2023 at 4:29 PM, casts_by_fly said:

It is stable if you're sitting and great for big water because its maneuverable and cuts through waves.  The standing stability is not as good as the sportsman series since they are basically plastic pontoons.  

I didn't see that part.  That's exhorbitant.  At that rate you might as well just put a torquedo or newport on the back of a regular bigwater pdl.  

I bought a 16' aluminum bass boat and 40 hp motor in mint condition for much less....ouch

[Darth-Baiter]

i thought about Elec Assist a long time ago.  take a page from the bike world.

 

genius!!    my friends mtn-bike is $11k.  

[casts_by_fly]

46 minutes ago, airshot said:

I bought a 16' aluminum bass boat and 40 hp motor in mint condition for much less....ouch

yes, but like in the Native thread, that's not the point.  

[Darth-Baiter]

my coworker just bought a used truck for less...about the point.  as in not the point.

[Standard]

21 hours ago, casts_by_fly said:

yes, but like in the Native thread, that's not the point.  

 

Pretty much every kayak thread airshot has to pop in and say something about boats.  

 

Hopefully pricing comes down in a few years when I'm ready for something new.  This would be a great setup for river fishing, using the assist to easily get upstream.  

[casts_by_fly]

8 minutes ago, Standard said:

 

Pretty much every kayak thread airshot has to pop in and say something about boats.  

 

Hopefully pricing comes down in a few years when I'm ready for something new.  This would be a great setup for river fishing, using the assist to easily get upstream.  

 

At $5k I can see where it makes some sense.  Its basically a PDL with a supplemental motor and that's what it would cost to set that up.  If that's what you need then I get it.  Rivers and big water trolling come to mind where just having a motorized unit is a risk with battery life.  I'm planning to take my autopilot on the Delaware for smallies but you can be sure that I'm starting the day by going up river and working my way back down.  No way I'm paddling the autopilot up river.  

[Standard]

10 minutes ago, casts_by_fly said:

 

At $5k I can see where it makes some sense.  Its basically a PDL with a supplemental motor and that's what it would cost to set that up.  If that's what you need then I get it.  Rivers and big water trolling come to mind where just having a motorized unit is a risk with battery life.  I'm planning to take my autopilot on the Delaware for smallies but you can be sure that I'm starting the day by going up river and working my way back down.  No way I'm paddling the autopilot up river.  

 

Even at $6k it's really not bad.  I think a lot of folks are underestimating the cost of a 36v NMC battery.  An Amped Outdoors 36V 50Ah battery is $1,150.  Add that to the cost of an AP136 (I know it's 12v, but just for comparisons sake) and you're what, $50 shy of $6k?

 

Plus, the big deal here is the pedal assist.  You could probably run 5mph all day on assist and not run out of battery.  And even with the battery, it's about 15lbs lighter than the AP136.

[casts_by_fly]

52 minutes ago, Standard said:

 

Even at $6k it's really not bad.  I think a lot of folks are underestimating the cost of a 36v NMC battery.  An Amped Outdoors 36V 50Ah battery is $1,150.  Add that to the cost of an AP136 (I know it's 12v, but just for comparisons sake) and you're what, $50 shy of $6k?

 

Plus, the big deal here is the pedal assist.  You could probably run 5mph all day on assist and not run out of battery.

 

You're right on the cost comparison.  I run an amped 80 ah 12v.  Its basically two of those with the Li cells in a different configuration so yeah about $1100.  I see how Old town got to their pricing.  But a brand new 120 PDL is $2800.  A newport motor runs another $1k.  A battery for $1100.  That's $4900 and gives you the same functionality.  The old town integrated unit will be cleaner and you don't have to do the motor install yourself but that's a $1k upcharge for a cleaner setup.

 

And the autopilot is $4350 going rate right now.  With that battery would put you at $5400.  Its a different hull design so different uses though.

[Gera]

I see nothing wrong with the price, different people have different pocket sizes.. I can agree that $6,000 is a lot of money for a kayak, but I think is worst when there is some people with a $100K bass boat and still don't own a home. 

 

A good pedal kayak is $2500 adding a torqeedo, wiring, adapters and if you are not handy labor to install will set you another $3000. Having it all in one from the start seems like a good price if you're really into kayak fishing. 

[Boomstick]

On 7/11/2023 at 3:30 PM, padlin said:

$6000 for a yak!

The Pro Angler 14 360 drive is no longer the most expensive.

[TnRiver46]

On 7/13/2023 at 2:12 PM, casts_by_fly said:

yes, but like in the Native thread, that's not the point.  

Well that begs the question, what is the point?

[casts_by_fly]

7 hours ago, TnRiver46 said:

Well that begs the question, what is the point?

this is what I typed in the other thread:

 

As DB said, that's not the point.  Kayak fishing is its own sport.  If your hobby is kayak tournament fishing then this is a very real ready to go option for a high end rig.  Think about a top end tournament bass boat and you're over $100k fully rigged.  This gives you much of the fishing functionality (spot lock, live scope, dual graphs, powerpoles) at a tenth of the cost.  Of course you give up space and speed, but then you gain back storage at home and towing weight.  You also don't have to rig all of these things.  Skip the newport, a powerpole, and make it a single garmin and you're down to $10k.  Livescope is very optional as well, though a nice option.

 

For a non-tournament angler this is a lot of kayak.  I will say that its not far off my autopilot which is a lot of kayak for a non-tournament angler.  can you rig a small aluminum for a similar price and have more space and functionality?  Yeah, probably.  Not a new aluminum but certainly with a used one.  Not everyone wants a full on boat though.  And, there are some parts of the country where you can put a kayak in and not a boat.