Old vs new technology Shimano’s

[shackman]

I treated myself a few months ago and bought some nice rods/reels. Metanium B, Aldebaran’s and expride rods. I fished with them a few times and thought wow, these are great and lightweight. But, I always found myself reaching for my (7) ch50mg’s more that are on various rods, Powell, Zodias,Dobyns. I guess it’s just cause I’ve fished with them so many years and you can just set the 6 pin centrifugal brakes and forget em and ain’t gotta fool with no dial on the side to get em’ dialed in. I also just like the footprint of the Chronarch’s better I guess and ain’t gotta worry about the side plate hitting the deck and bouncing in the water while adjusting brakes cause they are free swinging and stay intact. Any of you other guys find yourself fishing your old reels more than your new ones? 

[A-Jay]

While not a total Shimano fan boy,

I have & fish both older & mostly newer casting & spinning reels.

I do like the older spinners better than the newer ones.

As for the casting reels, I like the older & the newer about the same.

Might be somewhat different in function & design, but both perform well for me.

(when I'm not picking out a professional overrun).

#badthumb

?

A-Jay

 

[Hulkster]

I have found with my curado 200i, which was the first generation with the SVS braking system, that I end up treating them the same as the old 6 pin system. 

 

I leave 2 brakes on, the rest off and leave the dial at 3. 

 

the only thing I ever have to touch is the cast control knob, same as with the old ones. 

 

so for me I haven't noticed a difference. 

 

which system casts better I have no idea, they both seem to cast far. 

 

my tranx 400A has the old system and it casts great. 

[MickD]

Nope.  I use the old Calcutta 100 for trolling and some easy casting, but the new ones, including Daiwa Tatulas, are so much better they always find themselves in my hands. 

[ska4fun]

1 hour ago, shackman said:

I treated myself a few months ago and bought some nice rods/reels. Metanium B, Aldebaran’s and expride rods. I fished with them a few times and thought wow, these are great and lightweight. But, I always found myself reaching for my (7) ch50mg’s more that are on various rods, Powell, Zodias,Dobyns. I guess it’s just cause I’ve fished with them so many years and you can just set the 6 pin centrifugal brakes and forget em and ain’t gotta fool with no dial on the side to get em’ dialed in. I also just like the footprint of the Chronarch’s better I guess and ain’t gotta worry about the side plate hitting the deck and bouncing in the water while adjusting brakes cause they are free swinging and stay intact. Any of you other guys find yourself fishing your old reels more than your new ones? 

Overall, Shimano newer Spinning and Baitcasting reels are of inferior build quality than previous one.

 

This can be easily noted in the newer Stella and Curado reels.

[casts_by_fly]

I have a Chronarch 100A, 200E, and the current 150 HG all on rods right now.  They are all smooth as anything and perfectly fishable.  What I much prefer in the newer reels is the change in profile.  Over the past 10 years or so, reels have gotten lower to rods and the left side plate closer to the center of the rod.  All of which makes palming just a bit more comfortable in each iteration.  That is something I truly notice swapping around rods and reels.

[MickD]

5 minutes ago, ska4fun said:

Overall, Shimano newer Spinning and Baitcasting reels are of inferior build quality than previous one.

 

This can be easily noted in the newer Stella and Curado reels.

Then try Daiwas, great quality in all the recent ones I've purchased.

[ska4fun]

53 minutes ago, MickD said:

Then try Daiwas, great quality in all the recent ones I've purchased.

I have both. The decrease in Shimano gear is borderline absurd. The Conquest/Calcutta series exhibit it quite easily.

[optimator]

@Delaware Valley Tackle

 

 You’re the expert here. Have you seen a decline in Shimano quality?

[garroyo130]

I dont listen to a lot of ska anymore, but I have to agree. IMO there are noticeable differences in build quality from D series Shimano's on (even though I love an E). Like I've said before, small things like plastic level winds, sideplate screws that screw into graphite vs aluminum, and even the line guide support have changed for the worse. 

[KP Duty]

3 hours ago, shackman said:

I treated myself a few months ago and bought some nice rods/reels. Metanium B, Aldebaran’s and expride rods. I fished with them a few times and thought wow, these are great and lightweight. But, I always found myself reaching for my (7) ch50mg’s more that are on various rods, Powell, Zodias,Dobyns. I guess it’s just cause I’ve fished with them so many years and you can just set the 6 pin centrifugal brakes and forget em and ain’t gotta fool with no dial on the side to get em’ dialed in. I also just like the footprint of the Chronarch’s better I guess and ain’t gotta worry about the side plate hitting the deck and bouncing in the water while adjusting brakes cause they are free swinging and stay intact. Any of you other guys find yourself fishing your old reels more than your new ones? 

Those old mg50's are fantastic...had 4 of them back in '04.  I think Shimano could rerelease them with success.

[rangerjockey]

1 hour ago, ska4fun said:

I have both. The decrease in Shimano gear is borderline absurd. The Conquest/Calcutta series exhibit it quite easily.

Ever try a Curado G ?  

[Delaware Valley Tackle]

5 hours ago, optimator said:

@Delaware Valley Tackle

 

 You’re the expert here. Have you seen a decline in Shimano quality?

Comparatively, no. My beef with all of them is the race for lighter weight leading to ridiculously small, fragile hardware and sometimes sacrificing smoothness. I never saw the need for externally adjustable centrifugal brakes. I think some things have changed just for change sake. The one that baffles me most is Daiwa having 100 different Tatulas opposed to 5 or so distinctly different models each a step up. 
 

Sorry for going off on a tangent. To better answer the original question, I don’t see any discernible decline in Shimano reel quality at this point. Only time will tell if changes in materials and designs have an adverse affect in longevity. To some degree the jury is still out and Shimano isn’t alone. 

[optimator]

[shackman]

6 hours ago, Delaware Valley Tackle said:

Comparatively, no. My beef with all of them is the race for lighter weight leading to ridiculously small, fragile hardware and sometimes sacrificing smoothness. I never saw the need for externally adjustable centrifugal brakes. I think some things have changed just for change sake. The one that baffles me most is Daiwa having 100 different Tatulas opposed to 5 or so distinctly different models each a step up. 
 

Sorry for going off on a tangent. To better answer the original question, I don’t see any discernible decline in Shimano reel quality at this point. Only time will tell if changes in materials and designs have an adverse affect in longevity. To some degree the jury is still out and Shimano isn’t alone. 

I also repair reels on the side and I have noticed that arb bearings do not hold up like they use to. I’ve replaced numerous ones in mostly Shimano SLX’s,curado I’s and K’s for people. I know a lot of people took the anti reverse pawls out of the D’s & E’s but I myself believed it saved roller bearings. What’s your thoughts? 

[Cbump]

12 hours ago, garroyo130 said:

dont listen to a lot of ska anymore

same and i don’t agree

 

 I have curado 200s, curado 150mgls, new bantams, and new Mets. All amazing. 

[MN Fisher]

12 hours ago, garroyo130 said:

I dont listen to a lot of ska anymore,

I don't listen to him at all.

 

I'm loving my 21-Ultegra and both my 22-Miravels...light, smooth....only question is the same one Mike had about longevity.

[Delaware Valley Tackle]

57 minutes ago, shackman said:

I also repair reels on the side and I have noticed that arb bearings do not hold up like they use to. I’ve replaced numerous ones in mostly Shimano SLX’s,curado I’s and K’s for people. I know a lot of people took the anti reverse pawls out of the D’s & E’s but I myself believed it saved roller bearings. What’s your thoughts? 

The redundant AR is a nice little extra in a really harsh application but the back play to activate them doesn’t really protect the bearing. In my experience cleaning still corrects 99% of AR issues. I like the new AR clutches with more and smaller rollers. They feel more positive and smoother on retrieval. I have replaced one AR in an SLX but it’s the old style and was in a harsh application on a pike rig. Your experience is interesting though and I’m curious to see if I notice any change going forward 

[MiceNReets]

8 hours ago, optimator said:

[newapti5]

19 hours ago, Delaware Valley Tackle said:

the race for lighter weight leading to ridiculously small, fragile hardware and sometimes sacrificing smoothness.

 

Couldn't agree more. 8oz is fine; let's put some brass gears and metal parts back in the reels.

[ska4fun]

On 7/8/2023 at 12:32 AM, MN Fisher said:

I don't listen to him at all.

 

I'm loving my 21-Ultegra and both my 22-Miravels...light, smooth....only question is the same one Mike had about longevity.

 

On 7/8/2023 at 12:25 AM, Cbump said:

same and i don’t agree

 

 I have curado 200s, curado 150mgls, new bantams, and new Mets. All amazing. 

I see you both lack the cognitive capabilities to understand the pun, LOL!

 

On 7/7/2023 at 5:16 PM, Delaware Valley Tackle said:

Comparatively, no. My beef with all of them is the race for lighter weight leading to ridiculously small, fragile hardware and sometimes sacrificing smoothness. I never saw the need for externally adjustable centrifugal brakes. I think some things have changed just for change sake. The one that baffles me most is Daiwa having 100 different Tatulas opposed to 5 or so distinctly different models each a step up. 
 

Sorry for going off on a tangent. To better answer the original question, I don’t see any discernible decline in Shimano reel quality at this point. Only time will tell if changes in materials and designs have an adverse affect in longevity. To some degree the jury is still out and Shimano isn’t alone. 

That's a fine piece of work, a superb downplaying of the issues, related to weight stuff. Curiously all the weight reducing choices are, at the same time, cost-reducing ones. Mere, utter coincidences, indeed.

 

Time already spoke itself, with the duralumin gearing scandal, a.k.a met buzz, the aforementioned infamous Curado G series... The cheap AR-clucth in the Stella series... The nylon paws in the cheaper reels, eroding after just few usages...

 

 

On 7/8/2023 at 12:26 PM, newapti5 said:

 

Couldn't agree more. 8oz is fine; let's put some brass gears and metal parts back in the reels.

I understand cheaper, fragile materials as a downgrade in quality. Am I wrong?

[ska4fun]

On 7/7/2023 at 12:46 PM, rangerjockey said:

Ever try a Curado G ?  

Thank god I skipped this one, LOL!

[MiceNReets]

On 7/7/2023 at 11:11 AM, garroyo130 said:

I dont listen to a lot of ska anymore, 

[ska4fun]

17 hours ago, Delaware Valley Tackle said:

The redundant AR is a nice little extra in a really harsh application but the back play to activate them doesn’t really protect the bearing. In my experience cleaning still corrects 99% of AR issues. I like the new AR clutches with more and smaller rollers. They feel more positive and smoother on retrieval. I have replaced one AR in an SLX but it’s the old style and was in a harsh application on a pike rig. Your experience is interesting though and I’m curious to see if I notice any change going forward 

What an ARB/SARB ball bearing has to do with an AR-clutch bearing?

2 hours ago, MiceNReets said:

Start the Skankin! LOL!

[JediAmoeba]

On 7/7/2023 at 4:16 PM, Delaware Valley Tackle said:

My beef with all of them is the race for lighter weight leading to ridiculously small, fragile hardware and sometimes sacrificing smoothness.

It's crazy how light they want things - a heavier and balanced setup is way better than a light awkwardly balanced setup...