Braid to fluorocarbon connection knot question

[kevinmyfsu]

Hey folks, got a kind of general question here. For those of you who use braid to fluorocarbon setups, what's your strategy for minimizing knot damage as it runs through the guides? I tie low profile knots like the Albright or FG, but that still doesn't help when it hits the guides. I know I can use a shorter leader, and often I do. But especially when fishing super pressured water, I will use up to 6 foot leader. Do I just need to retie that knot more often? Any tips are appreciated, please move post if this belongs somewhere else

[Bird]

I use 15# braid to 8# flouro leader using Alberto knot and keep it out of the spool, never an issue.

[Junk Fisherman]

I check it every so often and will retie it after half a day or so if I am using the combo a lot.  What I have found is that the connection knot is most likely to break on the cast not when I am setting the hook or fighting a fish.    I'll go to make a cast and the entire leader flies off.  I've only had a few times when the connection knot broke on a hookset.  But since I've started checking the knot more often and retieing after heavy use, the connection knot breaks very infrequently.  And before every outing, I will retie the leader connection knot.  For reference sake  I'm using an Alberto knot and as a smallmouth guy I am usually throwing spinning gear 90% of the time.    

[galyonj]

FG knots really shine because – properly tied – there really isn't any part of that knot that's susceptible to damage from sliding through a guide.

 

So if you use that knot, I can't think of any reason to worry about it.

 

I don't use that knot, because I'm too lazy to learn it. I use a double uni to connect 6lb YZH (or 6lb Assassin, whichever I grab first) to 15lb Power Pro V2, and I use it on a rod with micro guides.

 

And I still don't worry about it. Not once have I lost a fish because my designed failure point failed when it wasn't supposed to.

[Pogues2300]

I use an fg but I retie it after a few outings usually… and I do check it every time I go. Not sure there is really a strategy beyond that. And the fg knot isn’t hard despite what you read. It’s super simple. I retie it in my kayak if needed. 

[kevinmyfsu]

7 minutes ago, galyonj said:

FG knots really shine because – properly tied – there really isn't any part of that knot that's susceptible to damage from sliding through a guide.

 

So if you use that knot, I can't think of any reason to worry about it.

 

I don't use that knot, because I'm too lazy to learn it. I use a double uni to connect 6lb YZH (or 6lb Assassin, whichever I grab first) to 15lb Power Pro V2, and I use it on a rod with micro guides.

 

And I still don't worry about it. Not once have I lost a fish because my designed failure point failed when it wasn't supposed to.

Yea, it's not the fish that does it. It's the cast. It's always the cast (for me).

[galyonj]

I get what you're saying. I'm using the fish as an example of a greater (and more prolonged) stressor than the cast. I've never had a break during the cast, either, now that I think about it.

 

My thought is that, as long as the leading edge of the knot (which is what I assume would see the greatest amount of force should it strike a guide ring during a cast) is braid, then the braid side of the knot kind of cushions the weaker line.

 

I don't mean to sound like I'm trying to convince anybody to abandon their knot. I understand that's a deeply personal thing.

[DaubsNU1]

22 minutes ago, Bird said:

I use 15# braid to 8# flouro leader using Alberto knot and keep it out of the spool, never an issue.

 

Similar...10lb braid to either 10lb or 8 lb fluoro via Alberto knot.  Keep out of the spool. No issues.

 

[Pogues2300]

19 minutes ago, DaubsNU1 said:

 

Similar...10lb braid to either 10lb or 8 lb fluoro via Alberto knot.  Keep out of the spool. No issues.

 

Well now we are talking spinning gear that doesn’t have micro guides and your knot selection opens up. I still tie an fg, and on spinning gear the knot lasts way longer for me anyways. Also used double uni and blood knot and both worked well on spinning.

1 minute ago, Pogues2300 said:

 

 

[kevinmyfsu]

17 minutes ago, galyonj said:

I get what you're saying. I'm using the fish as an example of a greater (and more prolonged) stressor than the cast. I've never had a break during the cast, either, now that I think about it.

 

My thought is that, as long as the leading edge of the knot (which is what I assume would see the greatest amount of force should it strike a guide ring during a cast) is braid, then the braid side of the knot kind of cushions the weaker line.

 

I don't mean to sound like I'm trying to convince anybody to abandon their knot. I understand that's a deeply personal thing.

Nah, you're good. And that's definitely a consideration. Here's what happens, best guess. This normally happens on heavier lures like big swimbaits (2oz+). It's never the first cast. It's usually like the 25th or something. Just lobbing it out without using any real force, and all of a sudden I'm left with nothing but some unwound braid at the end. So, either the knot is actually breaking, or it's coming untied. That may be due to the heavy weight or maybe the way I'm casting. Hitting the guides seems to be part of it as well. 

[galyonj]

Lord. That swimbait's heavier than all the different presentation I've thrown for the past six months together. lol

 

What do you use for your leader connections?

[MickD]

1 hour ago, kevinmyfsu said:

Hey folks, got a kind of general question here. For those of you who use braid to fluorocarbon setups, what's your strategy for minimizing knot damage as it runs through the guides? I tie low profile knots like the Albright or FG, but that still doesn't help when it hits the guides. I know I can use a shorter leader, and often I do. But especially when fishing super pressured water, I will use up to 6 foot leader. Do I just need to retie that knot more often? Any tips are appreciated, please move post if this belongs somewhere else

What pound test lines are you using?  Both knots go through my 4mm micros well with 15 pound braid, 15 pound leader.   I usually don't retie unless I've changed lures so often that the leader gets too short.  I start with about 6 feet, which stays out of the reel.

[Drawdown]

I used to make the mistake of letting my Alberto knot go into the (spinning) reel. That’s just asking for a knot or break to happen. Learned the hard way.

[kevinmyfsu]

1 hour ago, galyonj said:

Lord. That swimbait's heavier than all the different presentation I've thrown for the past six months together. lol

 

What do you use for your leader connections?

I've used uni to uni, Albright and FG. The latter two I have fewer issues with. ATM I'm using 65# promix braid to 20# abrazx. Line rarely snaps on me.

51 minutes ago, MickD said:

What pound test lines are you using?  Both knots go through my 4mm micros well with 15 pound braid, 15 pound leader.   I usually don't retie unless I've changed lures so often that the leader gets too short.  I start with about 6 feet, which stays out of the reel.

I have this problem with heavy swimbaits. I use 50# to 15# for my conventional lures without issue

[JN94]

I used the double uni for a while but never had any issues with knot damage. I ran most of my leaders in the 4-6' range. I now run the FG with 8-10' leaders and also have zero issues with knot damage. I also don't throw super heavy lures though across the board, which I've been told has a drastic effect on how much punishment your knot takes coming through the guides

[JackstrawIII]

Been using the FG knot for years. I never re-tie until I run out of leader. I’ve only had a knot fail once… and that was when I was trying to pull my lure free from a snag. 
 

Based on my experience, I don’t worry about it. FG knot is awesome. 

[PaulVE64]

#10 - #15 hi vis 832 to a #12 trilene XT via an impervious FG.

 

[JediAmoeba]

I use a blood knot for just about every leader on just about every rod i use. I haven't had a leader knot failure in at least 3 years and I am using 10'+ leaders. I cinch it down and then hit it with a small dab of superglue. 

[gunsinger]

I recently tied my first successful FG knot.  I saw no knot degradation and it held firm until I cut it off.  And the only reason I cut it off was because I'd forgotten to push my bobber stop down to the bullet weight and it slide up above the knot and no force of nature would let it slide back over it.

 

I'm not 100% sold on the need for a leader when worm fishing but I am sold on the FG.

[dj1975232]

Alberto knot whether I'm going from 65# braid to 25lb FC or 10# braid to 6lb FC leader.  No issues.

[optimator]

Lefty Kreh knot thanks to @BrianMDTX I've used it for a couple of years now with no issues. 

[Alex from GA]

FG at home and 3 turn surgeons knot on the boat.

[MN Fisher]

FG at home - Alberto on the water if I need to replace a leader.

[Darth-Baiter]

I use fly fishing knot glue. 

[The Baron]

After much practice, I've just recently become comfortable with the FG knot - finally finding that the "bow" method of keeping tension on the main line while tying helped me a lot.  After finishing the knot with a 1/2 doz. half hitches of the braid over both itself (i.e. the main line) and leader tag end, I trim the tag end very close and tie a few more half hitches of the braid mainline just over itself.  I would think those add some protection and essentially cover up the tag end of the fluoro so it doesn't contact the guides on casting.  As long as your guides are smooth (i.e. no burrs or nicks) I cannot see how the main knot could wear from casting.  That said, I replace my leader every few trips just to make sure there are no unseen nicks or wear on the leader that may cost me a fish.