I Don't Understand This

[throttleplate]

1 hour ago, Way north bass guy said:

“work smart instead of hard”

 

Working as a field mechanic, retired now, i spent many a day in las vegas heat 110 F  working underneath backhoes, dozers, excavaters.... in the oil soaked dirt with hydraulic oil running down all over my face and body mixed with sweat. 

Some jobs are just hard and have to get done on the spot, no easy way out, thats what i was paid to do and was paid well.

[ironbjorn]

26 minutes ago, throttleplate said:

 

Yup. Don't really care what the job is. More money for easier work is the logical answer. Also will never understand people who brag about the hours they work. Literally nobody cares or is impressed by the fact that you're working your life away. I was always content with 40 hours. 4 10 hour shifts was best. Life is far too short to be the guy volunteering for OT constantly. Nobody on their death bed wishes they had worked more hours. They always wish they had spent more time with family and doing the things they loved. The love of money is not in me.

[huZZah]

So…you realize when you talk about how your parents generation were such hard workers…and they instilled it in you…and this generation isn’t…you’re talking about your kids right?

 

So…if you don’t like how they are…maybe, just maybe… ?

 

Nah, definitely those other people’s lazy kids.

[Susky River Rat]

Here’s what I know. I am in the welding trade. Top dollar jobs around here are $30 at the top roughly. Those welds get ultra-sounded and you must have certs. You also have numbers you need to hit. You can get a job to start around 27  at some warehouses driving a forklift.  Other places the top tear welding stops around 27. I am in a supervisor position now. When I did weld everyday I questioned why I put my body through it? Why not go drive a forklift? The burns the smoke etc. Till there is a bigger pay gap between skilled and unskilled workers more and more will leave the trades.  The trades used to be the only way to make good money without a college education. That is gone now. Why be proficient at a skill when you can get paid the same for not having one at all?

[Woody B]

30 minutes ago, Darnold335 said:

Why be proficient at a skill when you can get paid the same for not having one at all?

 

I believe some employers or even industries play on peoples egos.   I'm an automotive technician.   ~7 years ago I left the Chevrolet Dealership I had worked at for decades to work for a huge company.   The money is pretty much the same, but I'm in an air conditioned shop with way better benefits.  I was a GM Certified World Class Tech.(Master tech is pretty much every area)  The owner of the dealership tried to play on my ego saying I was throwing all my GM training and certifications away.   I told him I still had the knowledge I gained with the training, and the actual certifications weren't keeping me out of a 100+ degree shop or paying my tool bill.  (tools are provided at my current employer)

 

I agree, it's really hard for a small business to make it, but that's not a reason to stick it out with low pay or bad working conditions.  

[Tackleholic]

8 hours ago, MediumMouthBass said:

The point im trying to make that not many are getting is,

Owning a small business in America now is extremely difficult, you have no idea what these guys have to do to stay in business in a post covid era. The insurance costs, utilities, maintenance, fees, taxes etc... So with inflation they are paying alot more to get what they are selling, but if they raise the prices too much their customers will complain and stop shopping their.

So please tell me how a small business barely staying afloat that is paying alot more for products but can only raise the prices a small bit without losing customers is supposed to now pay each employee $10-$15 extra per hour on top of minimum wage for entry level jobs.

A big corporation worth hundreds of millions of dollars can afford this, but in my opinion this will ruin the work force of America, and will cause many if not every small business/trades to go out of business.

No one will work these small shops anymore because hey go flip burgers for $25, instead of working there for $15.

The older men and women will think wow ive been working at this job for 3 decades and i can just quit and flip burgers for the same price.

With inflation, yes workers should make more, but not an insane amount. I can understand paying good long term employees in harder jobs more, but their pay is staying the same. While entry level jobs that shouldnt even be higher than minimum wage are now skyrocketing way past what they are worth.

 

What will happen is this.

All the mechanics, plumbers, welders, doctors, construction workers, etc... will be gone because why do hard work that matters when you can bag grocerys or flip burgers for the same if not more money.

MMB, you nailed it.  People like my deceased father and grandfathers would die a 2nd death if they could view the general work ethics of today.  Another point to make is that people living on Social Security, who have put in up to 50 years on the job, oftentimes only one job, are dealing with the prices of goods and services created by the new wage scales.  Social Security does not even come close to keeping up.  What's more, when these older citizens go out to eat (if they can afford to) they are often made to feel like 2nd class citizens if they don't fork up a 30% tip.

[TOXIC]

It always amazes me to hear statements like, I’m not wasting my life at a job….40 hours and I’m out….life is too short to spend it working….My question is always what are you going to do when your 70 and have no savings, no income, no retirement and Social Security is your only way to pay your bills if it even exists? Oh, that’s right you’ll live off whatever social programs those of us who do work get forced to pay while we are in the workforce.  Coming from a retired boomer, I was taught that nobody owed me a thing and if I wanted it I had to work for it.  My kids are the slackers you say? Nope.  My daughter is 26 and isn’t blogging living in a van, she owns her own business works hard and knows the value of a dollar.  Kids coming out of college with huge student loan debt and a degree in Art History demanding a “living wage” are forgetting who builds and maintains the infrastructure of this country…..the trades.  Without them we don’t exist, no roads, no buildings, no housing, no transportation.  It’s way past time to squash the thought that the only way to be successful is to go to college and that the trades are for those who can’t. 

[Mobasser]

2 minutes ago, TOXIC said:

It always amazes me to hear statements like, I’m not wasting my life at a job….40 hours and I’m out….life is too short to spend it working….My question is always what are you going to do when your 70 and have no savings, no income, no retirement and Social Security is your only way to pay your bills if it even exists? Oh, that’s right you’ll live off whatever social programs those of us who do work get forced to pay while we are in the workforce.  Coming from a retired boomer, I was taught that nobody owed me a thing and if I wanted it I had to work for it.  My kids are the slackers you say? Nope.  My daughter is 26 and isn’t blogging living in a van, she owns her own business works hard and knows the value of a dollar.  Kids coming out of college with huge student loan debt and a degree in Art History demanding a “living wage” are forgetting who builds and maintains the infrastructure of this country…..the trades.  Without them we don’t exist, no roads, no buildings, no housing, no transportation.  It’s way past time to squash the thought that the only way to be successful is to go to college and that the trades are for those who can’t. 

Your correct TOXIC. There will always be a need for skilled tradesmen.

[Jigfishn10]

16 hours ago, Tennessee Boy said:

Markets are very good at balancing things that are out of balance.  

I was just going to post that the market will correct itself as it usually does, but you did a better job than I would have.

[gim]

A Class A CDL will get you a pretty good job right now in the trucking industry.  I know a couple drivers and although they spend some time on the road, they make a pretty darn good wage for not having any college education.  They have both moved up the pay scale quickly because they are in such high demand too.

[TnRiver46]

20 hours ago, gimruis said:

Something I've noticed over the years in my field is that when the economy is in good shape, no one wants a government job.  When the economy sours, people line up for one by the dozens.

 

Right now, no one wants a government job.  That tells me the economy is in pretty good shape.  Just an observation.

Nobody wants to be a part of the problem unless they are desperate haha

[Tackleholic]

2 hours ago, TOXIC said:

It always amazes me to hear statements like, I’m not wasting my life at a job….40 hours and I’m out….life is too short to spend it working….My question is always what are you going to do when your 70 and have no savings, no income, no retirement and Social Security is your only way to pay your bills if it even exists? Oh, that’s right you’ll live off whatever social programs those of us who do work get forced to pay while we are in the workforce.  Coming from a retired boomer, I was taught that nobody owed me a thing and if I wanted it I had to work for it.  My kids are the slackers you say? Nope.  My daughter is 26 and isn’t blogging living in a van, she owns her own business works hard and knows the value of a dollar.  Kids coming out of college with huge student loan debt and a degree in Art History demanding a “living wage” are forgetting who builds and maintains the infrastructure of this country…..the trades.  Without them we don’t exist, no roads, no buildings, no housing, no transportation.  It’s way past time to squash the thought that the only way to be successful is to go to college and that the trades are for those who can’t. 

Those kids coming out of college with the huge student loan debts are being influenced into believing someone else should pay that off for them.  This belief has magnified since 2020.

[MediumMouthBass]

Entitlement is my generations biggest problem, they believe as soon as they get a degree they should be worshipped like royalty, thats probably why 75% now work at burger king for $25 flipping burgers.

[KP Duty]

I don't have time to read all the replies, but it is a smaller market for this type of worker  (Manuel labor + no benefits I'm assuming).  Walmart will pay $15+ an hour to start plus match $.50 on the dollar for 401k, not to mention paid vacation and sick leave.  

[Jar11591]

1 hour ago, MediumMouthBass said:

Entitlement is my generations biggest problem, they believe as soon as they get a degree they should be worshipped like royalty, thats probably why 75% now work at burger king for $25 flipping burgers.

 

The real entitlement is from employers who think they're owed employees who are willing to work for peanuts. Saying someone should be willing to work for personal fulfillment and less money than what can be found elsewhere in order to help your own bottom line is textbook entitlement. Nobody owes anybody low-wage labor. Seeking a higher wage in a job seekers market is not entitlement. 

[ironbjorn]

5 hours ago, TOXIC said:

It always amazes me to hear statements like, I’m not wasting my life at a job….40 hours and I’m out….life is too short to spend it working….My question is always what are you going to do when your 70 and have no savings, no income, no retirement and Social Security is your only way to pay your bills if it even exists? Oh, that’s right you’ll live off whatever social programs those of us who do work get forced to pay while we are in the workforce.  Coming from a retired boomer, I was taught that nobody owed me a thing and if I wanted it I had to work for it.  My kids are the slackers you say? Nope.  My daughter is 26 and isn’t blogging living in a van, she owns her own business works hard and knows the value of a dollar.  Kids coming out of college with huge student loan debt and a degree in Art History demanding a “living wage” are forgetting who builds and maintains the infrastructure of this country…..the trades.  Without them we don’t exist, no roads, no buildings, no housing, no transportation.  It’s way past time to squash the thought that the only way to be successful is to go to college and that the trades are for those who can’t. 

I'm not guaranteed 70, 75, 80 or whatever. I'm guaranteed the moment, and I make the most of it. Nobody who works 40 hours should struggle to live to begin with, and nobody who works 40 hours (which let me remind you is FULL TIME ALREADY) is a lazy bum who is destined to live off other people's work.

[ironbjorn]

5 hours ago, Mobasser said:

Your correct TOXIC. There will always be a need for skilled tradesmen.

And ya better pay em like it if want to keep them around. You can't be paying people less for skilled trade than the 19 year old makes for selling chicken nuggets. If they can't understand that then owning a business probably isn't in their best interest.

[TOXIC]

36 minutes ago, ironbjorn said:

I'm not guaranteed 70, 75, 80 or whatever. I'm guaranteed the moment, and I make the most of it. Nobody who works 40 hours should struggle to live to begin with, and nobody who works 40 hours (which let me remind you is FULL TIME ALREADY) is a lazy bum who is destined to live off other people's work.

Who called anybody a lazy bum?  My point is simple economics, you don’t work enough to have a supplemental income to support yourself when you quit working then don’t ask me to fund your retirement through social programs that I pay for out of my taxes.  You want to live the good life and be “fulfilled” now, fine then plan on working the rest of your life.  And since when did working 40 hours automatically qualify you for a living wage?  Every job I have ever had, I advanced because I was willing to work harder, longer or better than what was required.  This attitude of minimum work for minimum pay has been around forever.  The unemployment ranks are full of that attitude.  I never once blamed my employers for underpaying me because I showed up and did the minimum.  

[MediumMouthBass]

@Jar11591 yet another person missing the point. Im not saying work for free, im saying all small businesses and trades will eventually all fail because they will never be able to compete with companies worth billions and hundreds of millions.

 

The entitlement im talking about isnt the pay, it was about the workers in my generation, the laziest generation to ever exist in all of humanity, the people my age either 1 go to college and come out thinking everyone else should pay for it, and they should be treated like royalty. 2 they barely ever show up to a job, and if they do they let everyone else do the work while they take their 20th brake of the hour. This is just my experience working with people my age so far.

[Mobasser]

Maybe it comes down to what people want to do. Be a skilled tradesman, or sell chicken nuggets. It's an individual choice. And, would you like fries with your nuggets sir?

[Mobasser]

I'll reiterate this: trade work is skilled work. 18.00 per hr is not great, but if your brand new and know nothing, it's not bad.                                             If you owned a contracting company, would you send a complete novice to install a new hot water tank in a house? What about an expensive door?  Of course you could never do this.  He has no experience, will make mistakes, and could possibly ruin your company name.                                Have him come along and watch, help, and learn. When he can be trusted to do these things correctly, of course he'll make more money, possibly 30 or more dollars per hr. But, he has to learn the skills first. It's been this way forever. If folks can make better money from day one,  working Wal Mart or fast food so be it. It's an individual choice.

[gim]

1 hour ago, ironbjorn said:

Nobody who works 40 hours should struggle to live to begin with

The problem as I see it with this is that the version of adequate living wage may be different from one person to the next, also depending on where you live.  For a single guy with minimal debt a livable wage is far different than one who has 3 kids, a mortgage, and a car payment.  What gripes me is when you see people complaining about livable wages even when working two jobs is that they almost always kids.  Kids aren't cheap.  They are very expensive.  Kids are not an entitlement either.  You shouldn't be having them if you can't afford it.  Its a personal choice you made.  Granted, the costs these days associated with them are borderline outrageous, but that's another topic for another day.  I hear of people having 3 or 4 kids and I just think "d**n, you must make a lot more money than I do."

 

 

[Mobasser]

Just now, gimruis said:

The problem as I see it with this is that the version of adequate living wage may be different from one person to the next.  For a single guy with minimal debt a livable wage is far different than one who has 3 kids, a mortgage, and a car payment.  What gripes me is when you see people complaining about livable wages even when working two jobs is that they almost always kids.  Kids aren't cheap.  They are very expensive.  Kids are not an entitlement either.  You shouldn't be having them if you can't afford it.  Its a personal choice you made.  Granted, the costs these days associated with them are borderline outrageous, but that's another topic for another day.  I hear of people having 3 or 4 kids and I just think "d**n, you must make a lot more money than I do."

 

 

True. I raised four kids. If I had a dollar for every gallon of milk, or pack of diapers I bought, I'd be driving a new boat now.

[gim]

4 minutes ago, Mobasser said:

True. I raised four kids. If I had a dollar for every gallon of milk, or pack of diapers I bought, I'd be driving a new boat now.

I hear ya.  I don't know how people do it.  I must be really lacking in the time, patience, and financial department compared to a lot of other people.

[Tackleholic]

7 hours ago, Mobasser said:

Your correct TOXIC. There will always be a need for skilled tradesmen.

When you need a skilled tradesman, and can't find one, "who ya gonna call, Ghostbusters"?  Go ahead and repair your own broken sewer line, replace the HVAC unit, re-roof your house, and get your 10 year old Mercury running again.