Spinning Tackle Casting Distance ?

[J.Vincent]

I’m not the best with spinning gear in general, but I use it for obvious finesse stuff like drop shot, Ned rigs, flick shake, Neko rigs, tube jigs, etc…but recently I’ve been trying to really perfect my finesse approach and I’m still having a heck of a time getting good casting distance. I keep thinking it could be my line or maybe the micro guides on my Spinning rods. What kind of distance should I expect to achieve with an an All purpose 6ft9 Medium Fast Spinning rod with micro guides and a 2500 series Shimano Sedona spooled with 20 pound Braid and rigged with a 1/4 ounce lure ? 

[detroit1]

You should be able to cast further than you need to. I am not a fan of micro guides on a spin rod, Last year my bud bought a new rig  that had that funky 2 ring guide (closest to the reel) and he couldn't cast very far. This year he removed that inner ring and distance is much better, but not near as far as my old school large guided rods. 

[WRB]

2500 Shimano Sedona spool diameter and reel long stem may be creating too high a angle for the line to enter the 1st larger guide. Either use a rod with longer guide foot to be in line the spool or use a size 1000 reel.

Changing to Fins 10# Spin5* braid with 5# Maxima UG copoly leader may help. 

Should be able to cast 1/8 lures over 30 yards.

Tom

*10#(.004D) 15# (.005D)

[PhishLI]

50 minutes ago, J.Vincent said:

I keep thinking it could be my line

@bulldog1935 turned me on to this 16.7 lb (#0.8) Varivas line shown below and I don't hate spinning gear anymore. I'm enjoying it now. Can really sling a finesse TRD on a 1/15oz head much farther with this line, and as the weight goes up the distance is crazy good. Tatula LT 3000 on a Daiwa XT 6'6" MF.

 

[FryDog62]

One of the reasons I have adapted to BFS is because of the much greater casting distance I can get over spinning. Second is that I can use fluorocarbon with a much better/uniform sink rate, and 3rd - little to no line twist. 

[bulldog1935]

@PhishLI My buddy Stevo bought two salt finesse spinning rods - NS Black Hole Dark Horse, 8' and 8'6" (I have the 8' also, which is where he tried the combos first).  He didn't have reels yet last fall, and I brought along my finesse Stradics (C2000SHG and 1000S) to let him borrow for the Redfish Rodeo.  One had YGK PE#0.8, the other Varivas PE#0.8.  

He was blown away with the light-lure distance, went home and ordered the same reels with Varivas threadline braid for them.  

I'll also admit to preferring the same lines on my BFS combos.  

 

[J.Vincent]

41 minutes ago, WRB said:

2500 Shimano Sedona spool diameter and reel long stem may be creating too high a angle for the line to enter the 1st larger guide. Either use a rod with longer guide foot to be in line the spool or use a size 1000 reel.

Changing to Fins 10# Spin5 braid with 5# Maxima UG copoly leader may help. 

Should be able to cast 1/8 lures over 30 yards.

Tom

Something is definitely not matching up well with this combo, because my distance is only about 50 to 60 feet with 4 carrier 20lb test No Fade Braid (casting 1/4 ounce Flick shake).

[J.Vincent]

1 hour ago, detroit1 said:

I am not a fan of micro guides on a spin rod

I actually like them on my Topwater/Jerkbait Bait-casting rods but starting to wish I would have avoided micros on my spinning rods. After reading a few replies here, it just sort of confirms my gut instinct about the micro guides as the main problem. 

[islandbass]

@J.Vincent: The first thing I’d examine is my casting mechanics. Sadly, anglersnusing spinning gear can get away with murder when it comes to casting mechanics. It’s so easy to be sloppy but yet still yield a fair cast. Ensure that the weight of your lure properly loads the rod and you’ll be well on your way. 

[J.Vincent]

1 hour ago, PhishLI said:

@bulldog1935 turned me on to this 16.7 lb (#0.8) Varivas line shown below and I don't hate spinning gear anymore. I'm enjoying it now. Can really sling a finesse TRD on a 1/15oz head much farther with this line, and as the weight goes up the distance is crazy good. Tatula LT 3000 on a Daiwa XT 6'6" MF.

 

 So does an 8 carrier 16.7 pound braid GREATLY improve casting distance over say a 4 carrier 20 pound braid ? 

[J.Vincent]

2 minutes ago, islandbass said:

@J.Vincent: The first thing I’d examine is my casting mechanics. Sadly, anglersnusing spinning gear can get away with murder when it comes to casting mechanics. It’s so easy to be sloppy but yet still yield a fair cast. Ensure that the weight of your lure properly loads the rod and you’ll be well on your way. 

I 100% agree with you, and I even examined my own casting mechanics for 60 minutes today; just casting this combo in very light rain and zero wind. I was trying to determine how well the rod was loading on the back cast. From what I can tell, the rod is loading properly with the 1/4 ounce flick shake and does throw its own energy into the cast. Line flows off the spool in almost perfectly even coils but I think the front micro guide is just so much smaller than the coils flying off the spool, that it’s hindering the distance. But I’m going to try a different rod that loads up better tomorrow, before I can 100% confirm the culprit. 

[PhishLI]

11 minutes ago, J.Vincent said:

 So does an 8 carrier 16.7 pound braid GREATLY improve casting distance over say a 4 carrier 20 pound braid ?

This line in this test is quite a bit thinner than Power pro Super Slick 15lb and feels much smoother which is also part of the equation. Between those two qualities, light baits go significantly farther without the feeling you get from coarser lines which seem to bite into themselves and shorten the casting distance. This stuff is for real with very light baits. Tie on a weightlessly rigged Fat Ika and the casts are absurdly long especially if you've spooled the line up to the limit. Do that and spool lip friction is less of a factor as line is payed out on the cast.

[bulldog1935]

Japan X-braids are all made by Izanas - when introduced in 2018, they cost $1/yd - the price has come down to earth now.  Here's the marketing blurb on YGK Oddport, which was the first.  

 

80% of the line strength is in the high-strength center strand, which contains an oriented high-crystalline content.  Here's the Izanas process.  

https://www.toyobo-global.com/products/hp_fiber/category/dn_izanas/index.html

The photo on their applications page shows 4 different brands using the process, which has become the PE standard in Japan.  

The braid construction uses finer fibers, a tighter weave, and it's fused when a teflon-based FEP coating is applied.  Varivas has a US website and Amazon store.  

 

Since X-braid is so thin, you may want to use your existing braid for backing, and top the spool with a working charge of PE#0.8.  

 

I was using 6-lb Sufix 832 for finesse fishing until I discovered Japan X-braid, which is 16-lb for the same diameter, harder, rounder.  832 is good line, and also FEP-coated.  Varivas, YGK, Duel X-wire are just next-level.  

 

[MickD]

The contention that micro guides cost distance is false.  As is the contention that the Microwave guide train costs distance.  Proper guide train design (reduction guides) is necessary, but micros if anything increase distance. 

 

The biggest factor in distance, assuming good guide train design and execution is the line.  With high quality braid of less than about 15 pound test almost any guide/reel combination will cast very well.  If set up this way and still having distance problems, it may be technique and not having a rod that loads properly (power vs lure weight). 

 

I use all micro equipped spin and cast rods and have no problems with distance. 

7 hours ago, PhishLI said:

So does an 8 carrier 16.7 pound braid GREATLY improve casting distance over say a 4 carrier 20 pound braid ?

Yes.

[Susky River Rat]

I run 10lb 832. I have never had an issue casting into any tree I didn’t want to that I thought was to far away.

[Will Ketchum]

A thinner and more limp line gives more casting distance. Casting accuracy outweighs distance.

[jjwalker67]

11 hours ago, bulldog1935 said:

@PhishLI My buddy Stevo bought two salt finesse spinning rods - NS Black Hole Dark Horse, 8' and 8'6" (I have the 8' also, which is where he tried the combos first).  He didn't have reels yet last fall, and I brought along my finesse Stradics (C2000SHG and 1000S) to let him borrow for the Redfish Rodeo.  One had YGK PE#0.8, the other Varivas PE#0.8.  

He was blown away with the light-lure distance, went home and ordered the same reels with Varivas threadline braid for them.  

I'll also admit to preferring the same lines on my BFS combos.  

 

 

Will this Varivas braid stop dig ins? I've tried many different lines on my baitcaster setups and always get line dig in. Tried all the recommendations to help but nothing works. I think it is due to my casting style which is more of a quick wrist snap instead of casting like I'm chuckin live bait. 

[bulldog1935]

@jjwalker67 Absolutely, no dig with PE#0.8 on BFS-mod Steez and Silver Wolf.  

Spinning line dig is affected by the reel line management (and spool shimming), but I've never had a problem on Shimano worm-drive reels, Stradic, and Vanquish.  

Since I've already showed the others, here's Twin Power in wide-range MH with PE#1.2 (the Japanese call this a sea bass ML).  

 

[Jar11591]

4 hours ago, Will Ketchum said:

Casting accuracy outweighs distance.

Except when it doesn’t. Like fishing an expansive milfoil flat. For fishing certain specific pieces of cover or contours, of course accuracy is better than distance. But there are plenty of situations where accuracy matters none, but distance is what will get you the most bites…like expansive hydrilla and milfoil forests with no contours.
 

Being stealthy is also a situation where distance is important, but in these cases accuracy is usually equally important as well. 
 

[J.Vincent]

4 hours ago, MickD said:

The contention that micro guides cost distance is false.  As is the contention that the Microwave guide train costs distance.  Proper guide train design (reduction guides) is necessary, but micros if anything increase distance. 

 

The biggest factor in distance, assuming good guide train design and execution is the line.  With high quality braid of less than about 15 pound test almost any guide/reel combination will cast very well.  If set up this way and still having distance problems, it may be technique and not having a rod that loads properly (power vs lure weight). 

 

I use all micro equipped spin and cast rods and have no problems with distance. 

Yes.

I don’t have casting distance issues with my 6-9 , 7-0, 7-2 and 7-6 Baitcasting Rods that are equipped with Micro Guides. So maybe you are right, maybe it’s not the actual micro guides creating the problem. Maybe 20 pound 4 carrier Braid is just to coarse or I just forgot how to cast a spinning rod ?

[PhishLI]

2 hours ago, J.Vincent said:

Maybe 20 pound 4 carrier Braid is just to coarse

This is your answer. An ultra slick line, similar to the Varivas that's been posted, bites in on itself far less than average 8 carrier braids, which is why I made reference to Power Pro SS in my earlier post. You'll be quite surprised at the increase in distance with very light baits.

2 hours ago, Jar11591 said:

Except when it doesn’t. Like fishing an expansive milfoil flat. For fishing certain specific pieces of cover or contours, of course accuracy is better than distance. But there are plenty of situations where accuracy matters none, but distance is what will get you the most bites…like expansive hydrilla and milfoil forests with no contours.

Exactly. This is my situation in the lakes/ponds I wade, and often in 4 feet of water or less. They're just a monolithic weed from end to end where bass can be and are anywhere depending on where the bait has fled to and set up in on any given day. I get my fair share of bites parallel to the bank in cover and close to my position, but a high percentage come at or near the end of my longest possible cast. My catch count would be split in half if I were unable to reach and probe those zones, so anything that increases my reach like this line does is aces in my book. I actually had two spinning rigs out with me on my last trip which is something that hasn't happened in years. I'll go further by saying that of all the tips I've picked up on BR over the years, this recommendation of Varivas by @bulldog1935 is at the top of the list where exceeding expectations is the standard. A game changer for sure.

[MickD]

2 hours ago, J.Vincent said:

Maybe 20 pound 4 carrier Braid is just to coarse or I just forgot how to cast a spinning rod ?

I think most of them are.  It will be very easy to try something like 10 pound premium (8 carrier braid) braid and see what happens.  Keep in mind that braid lasts most of us for years so price is not as big an issue as it seems when you first see it.    You also don't need to fill the reel, put about 100 yards on so that the spool of the reel is properly filled.  Insufficient line costs distance.  

 

My casting technique when going for distance is two handed overhead, rotate the rod back to about 2 oclock and without really stopping aggressively rotated it back to about 10 oclock with a sharp stop.  This loads the rod really well.  The lower hand goes forward when the rod is rotating back, and it pulls sharply on the butt of the rod when it's going forward.  Try it.  When you get it right you'll say "why didn't I think of that?"   It's that simple and obvious.

[J.Vincent]

After stepping down to 15 pound test Braid with 6 or 8 pound test leader, my casting distance with this spinning combo has slightly improved. I’m probably going to consider a 7ft to 7ft3 Medium Light spinning rod to replace my 6ft9 in the future, hopefully I can add another 10 to 15 yards with the longer stick. and Thank you everyone who offered their input ? 

[Delaware Valley Tackle]

It’s the reduction guides on spinning rods that determines how well they cast , not the running guides in this case micros. Finesse spinning rods are a prime application for micros 

[J.Vincent]

4 hours ago, Delaware Valley Tackle said:

It’s the reduction guides on spinning rods that determines how well they cast , not the running guides in this case micros. Finesse spinning rods are a prime application for micros 

Would the reduction guide be the first and closest line guide to the Spinning reel ?