Help Diagnosing a Potential Equipment Change

[Ryanralston07]

I've started fishing a chatterbait a lot more, lately, and even caught a new PB on a bluegill patterned CB. Here's my current setup for running the chatterbait: 

 

Rod - Basspro Johnny Morris Platinum Signature Rod, 7'1", MH/F (I'd say it's between MH and H and between fast and extra fast)

Reel - Lew's MP 7.xx:1 ratio
Line: 40# Powerpro Braid

 

Here's my problem: I lose a lot of fish by pulling the hook out of their mouths, unintentionally, or not even having time to set the hook because there's no give in my current setup when the fish hits the CB. I don't want to change out the line on my current setup because it's my favorite t-rig setup, but it's the best setup I currently have for running a CB, so I run it. I bank and kayak fish a lot and really want to only carry 4 rods with me, the MH/F, a spinning M/F, a bc M/F, and then whatever this setup will be. I throw t-rigs on the MH/F (braid), finesse on the spinning setup (braid to fluoro), wacky rigs and top water on the M/F (Yozuri hybrid), and figured this new rod would be good for crank/CB/spinner baits.

 

My thought process is to get another rod for an extra reel (6.8:1 ratio) I have and run a 7'+ rod in either a MH/M flex with fluorocarbon or a MH/MF flex with fluorocarbon/mono depending on the give of the rod.

 

Where I fish I have a lot of algae and I rip the CB out of algae and grass on the regular since I like to slow-roll a CB on the bottom, so would the MH/MF be better than the MH/M because of that? I've read so many threads on this topic my head is spinning, and I know not every manufacturer is the same with regard to rating rods. I mostly run a 3/8 oz CB and have no desire for a glass rod.

 

Also, I don't want to spend over $150 on a new rod, so there's that.

 

So, what would y'all do?

[MN Fisher]

Most people say a mod-fast for chatters/spinners, and given my experience I'd agree.

 

So for under $150 I'd suggest what I use for those - Dobyns Fury 705CB.

[Tatulatard]

12 to 15 lb big game leader.  That will be your stretch.

[gim]

Straight braid is not going to have any stretch, that is why you are ripping hooks out of their mouth sometimes. If you want to keep using it, I would suggest not doing such an obvious hard hook set. Just give the rod a bit of a snap instead. You may have a hard time adjusting to this given that hooksets are often pretty natural in response when there is a bite.

[Fishin Dad]

If you are using a MH fast action rod, you should use fluorocarbon or mono for some stretch.  If you are using a moderate action rod, braid would be ok.  
 

I fish a chatterbait a ton, and love a glass or composite rod.  I actually just picked up a Daiwa Rebellion 7’4” glass and it is perfect for chatterbaits.  The Rebellion is light and more sensitive than most glass/composite rods, but still has the parabolic action that helps.   I have other glass (composite) rods as well and lose a lot less fish with them.  I know it seems like you either love or hate glass (composite) rods.   Put me in the love category. 

[BigAngus752]

I spoke on the phone with someone at Duckett Fishing awhile back.  I was describing what I wanted in a rod for vibrating jigs and larger spinner baits.  I told the guy I wanted a "moderate" MH rod with a good parabolic bend for long casts, hard hooksets with braid, and the flexibility to keep the fish pinned but it needed a strong backbone for hauling the fish out of slop and strong hooksets with thick hooks.  The guy told me that what I said was almost word for word what Jacob Wheeler told them he wanted for the same lures.  I bought a Duckett DFJW73MH-C and it is exactly what I asked for.  I now own four Duckett rods.  Keep your braid and you don't need a leader with this rod. 

[T-Billy]

I've been through a BUNCH of rods looking for a chatterbait rod I was happy with. I found it in the Ark Invoker 7'4" H MF composite. I like this rod so much, I now have four of them. They're great for all things single hook moving bait, and baits with big stout trebles. The MH MF is too soft IMO. The H MF has the needed tip with plenty of backbone though the mid and butt sections. I also throw a chatterbait on braid and a 7 speed reel. 

[Pogues2300]

I use poison adrena 7’3” versatile which is mh/mf and I love that action. I think it strikes a good balance of being able to rip it through grass and still some give to help while fighting the fish. I know some people use glass but that wouldn’t feel right for me. 

[PhishLI]

14 hours ago, Ryanralston07 said:

Here's my problem: I lose a lot of fish by pulling the hook out of their mouths, unintentionally, or not even having time to set the hook because there's no give in my current setup when the fish hits the CB. I don't want to change out the line on my current setup because it's my favorite t-rig setup, but it's the best setup I currently have for running a CB, so I run it.

This was my problem throwing CBs in the past on my preferred crisp MHF utility rig with straight braid. I figured out that each time I missed it had almost entirely to do with me pointing the rod directly at the bait on the retrieve. Even going to a moderate or composite rod with straight braid wouldn't have solved this problem because my doing this takes any rod of the equation. Once I started fishing a CB with a higher rod tip, which created an angle to the payed out line, my hookups increased. Furthermore, once I relaxed my grip slightly on the rod/reel they increased dramatically. At some point I realized that I was quite rigid from my grip right up to my shoulders when I fished this bait which compounded the lack of give. Who knows why? Once I fixed this I rarely miss at all now. Between the corrected angle of the rod and my relaxed grip I've achieved a mechanical delay without having to change a thing gear-wise. Nearly every big fish I caught last year bit a chatterbait on a stout MHF or a HF rod. Maybe none of this is related to your issue, but maybe it is.

[Ryanralston07]

Thanks, y'all!

 

I guess to summarize what y'all are saying, look for a mh/f with fluoro, or a mh/m-mh/mf with braid? I'd like to be able to throw crankbaits on this rod, too, so would the mh/m or mh/mf rod be the ticket? 

[Ryanralston07]

On 6/18/2023 at 12:45 PM, Pogues2300 said:

I use poison adrena 7’3” versatile which is mh/mf and I love that action. I think it strikes a good balance of being able to rip it through grass and still some give to help while fighting the fish. I know some people use glass but that wouldn’t feel right for me. 

What line are you running?

On 6/18/2023 at 4:09 PM, PhishLI said:

This was my problem throwing CBs in the past on my preferred crisp MHF utility rig with straight braid. I figured out that each time I missed it had almost entirely to do with me pointing the rod directly at the bait on the retrieve. Even going to a moderate or composite rod with straight braid wouldn't have solved this problem because my doing this takes any rod of the equation. Once I started fishing a CB with a higher rod tip, which created an angle to the payed out line, my hookups increased. Furthermore, once I relaxed my grip slightly on the rod/reel they increased dramatically. At some point I realized that I was quite rigid from my grip right up to my shoulders when I fished this bait which compounded the lack of give. Who knows why? Once I fixed this I rarely miss at all now. Between the corrected angle of the rod and my relaxed grip I've achieved a mechanical delay without having to change a thing gear-wise. Nearly every big fish I caught last year bit a chatterbait on a stout MHF or a HF rod. Maybe none of this is related to your issue, but maybe it is.

I think part of it is. I usually find myself gripping the rod/reel tightly, but my main problem is reeling through the bite. If the bit isn’t just an absolute thrash of a strike, I often set the hook too soon and pull the cb out of their mouth. I’ve also had a few hits where they hit right at the bank/kayak and the stiffness of my rod didn’t allow any load for them to actually inhale the bait. I love the fast action and feeling everything the bait hits but I’m thinking I need a softer tip, too, to allow the fish to get it in their mouth more. Looser grip and more limber rod should work better.

[Pogues2300]

2 hours ago, Ryanralston07 said:

What line are you running?

I think part of it is. I usually find myself gripping the rod/reel tightly, but my main problem is reeling through the bite. If the bit isn’t just an absolute thrash of a strike, I often set the hook too soon and pull the cb out of their mouth. I’ve also had a few hits where they hit right at the bank/kayak and the stiffness of my rod didn’t allow any load for them to actually inhale the bait. I love the fast action and feeling everything the bait hits but I’m thinking I need a softer tip, too, to allow the fish to get it in their mouth more. Looser grip and more limber rod should work better.

I use 30lb suffix 832 to16# sniper fluoro for chatterbaits with that rod. Don’t feel I’m pulling the hook from the fish but maybe I’m old and slow lol

[txchaser]

For whatever reason this particular bait seems to draw more 'what rod' comments than any other. 

 

I went through a bunch of rods trying to find the right one for chatterbaits, and where I fish most of the chatterbait action is in weedy areas so the ability to wrist-snap to clear weeds is important. 

 

Try just setting the hook the same way you clear weeds - little wrist snap will do it - you only need to move the bait a few inches on braid to actually set the hook. 

 

Alternatively you might play with just not really setting at all, just reel down on it. I dont think you will actually be able to do it for real, but it might be that backing waaaay off of the hookset solves what you are solving for. 

 

Daiwa's "regular" action seems about perfect. I think it's a mod fast. I found what I was ultimately looking for in a Kistler Heavy Medium Heavy. IMO MH is too light, and H is too heavy. Something about this rod worked for me. I did -not- want any glass or composite -there's a lot going on with the bait and I want to feel it all. 

 

[Ryanralston07]

Ark Invoker Series of rod in 7'4 MH/R (graphite) seems to be a good setup with fluorocarbon. Am I correct?

[Wildbillb]

I don't set the hook.  I lean back and keep realing.

[Ryanralston07]

49 minutes ago, Wildbillb said:

I don't set the hook.  I lean back and keep realing.

What’s your setup?

[Deephaven]

I'd check your rod position and set as well.  I use a MHF and straight braid and have no interest in using one of my moderate rods for CB.  

[Functional]

why not spool up your spare reel with 12 or 15lb big game and put it on one of your MH-F rods? I'd bet getting a bit of stretch in your line would help and I've used MH-F rods on chatterbaits just fine with mono. This would give you a better indication if you needed a slower rod or if just a line change would help and narrow down your rod selection. Very cheap to try. 

 

Out of your price range but my dedicated chatterbait/spinnerbait rod (and occasional crank) is a Dobyns Sierra Micro 704C. Slower action than a typical fast and works well for the application. I do wish it was a bit more sensitive though. 

[Ryanralston07]

21 minutes ago, Functional said:

why not spool up your spare reel with 12 or 15lb big game and put it on one of your MH-F rods? I'd bet getting a bit of stretch in your line would help and I've used MH-F rods on chatterbaits just fine with mono. This would give you a better indication if you needed a slower rod or if just a line change would help and narrow down your rod selection. Very cheap to try. 

 

Out of your price range but my dedicated chatterbait/spinnerbait rod (and occasional crank) is a Dobyns Sierra Micro 704C. Slower action than a typical fast and works well for the application. I do wish it was a bit more sensitive though. 

Now, that is an idea and it means more fishing ? Thanks!

[Wildbillb]

4 hours ago, Ryanralston07 said:

What’s your setup?

St croix premier 6' 6". Yozri hybrid 12 pound and a lews 6 speed super duty