Do you feel like smallmouth fishing has gotten progressively worse over the last couple years?

[TnRiver46]

11 hours ago, Ohioguy25 said:

How is this possible, considering it takes a smallmouth 10-15 years to reach 18/19 inches?

People always use the fact that it takes them 10 years to get to that size up north. That really has nothing to do with anything, that just means they spawned more times 

[Dwight Hottle]

11 hours ago, Dye99 said:

I fish northern Idaho lakes so we have a short season up here.

 

I cant tell if its better or worse, seems the same to me.

But there are definitely more fisherman. More bass boats and traffic as well.

 

I fish out of a rigged kayak so as long as they dont try to run me over I dont care, but its odd to paddle out to my spots that used to be empty to find 6 boats hovering...

 

 

 

 

Your not fishing Dworshak Reservoir. It's been on fire with big fish & a new record for several years now. 

https://www.google.com/search?q=idaho+state+record+smallmouth+bass&sxsrf=APwXEddnylqV09LjPAp96OYpQSlpM6OU3w%3A1686571808703&source=hp&ei=IAuHZKWdKKCvqtsP_c-9wA4&iflsig=AOEireoAAAAAZIcZMOCUzhwmzKWB3KNNJsMlmYeP_vGn&

 

[Susky River Rat]

5 hours ago, TnRiver46 said:

People always use the fact that it takes them 10 years to get to that size up north. That really has nothing to do with anything, that just means they spawned more times 

Pollution and viruses is what plagued the river. I’m not saying catch and release isn’t helping. It’s just another helping hand. Also smallies were once considered invasive in the susky.

[PABASS]

1 hour ago, Darnold335 said:

Pollution and viruses is what plagued the river. I’m not saying catch and release isn’t helping. It’s just another helping hand. Also smallies were once considered invasive in the susky.

SMB are an invasive species, sadly most bass are.  I recall an article specifically about SMB and the susky and thinking about it had something to do with a train maybe carrying tons of them that crashed and released them in the river..

I didnt know this till a few years ago but literally every sewer plant dumps into the susqy, "after the waste water is cleaned" of course but that's why the susky has an odd odor from these plants as they smell just like it.  For a long time in central pa sewage was the main polluter until the Chesapeake bay forced everyone to get the clay, cracked, leaking pipes fixed.

Fracking now will have a huge impact I am afraid.  Yourtuber, I cant recall his name but he fishes below Harrisburg where its only catch and release and came here and fished where its not and he said the average size is allot smaller here.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Kirtley Howe]

36 minutes ago, PABASS said:

SMB are an invasive species, sadly most bass are.  I recall an article specifically about SMB and the susky and thinking about it had something to do with a train maybe carrying tons of them that crashed and released them in the river..

I didnt know this till a few years ago but literally every sewer plant dumps into the susqy, "after the waste water is cleaned" of course but that's why the susky has an odd odor from these plants as they smell just like it.  For a long time in central pa sewage was the main polluter until the Chesapeake bay forced everyone to get the clay, cracked, leaking pipes fixed.

Fracking now will have a huge impact I am afraid.  Yourtuber, I cant recall his name but he fishes below Harrisburg where its only catch and release and came here and fished where its not and he said the average size is allot smaller here.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

In almost all places, SMB are NOT considered to be an INVASIVE species. They are considered to be an EXOTIC species. An invasive species is bad because they out-compete native species for resources (food, spawning areas, etc), and/or destroy the habitat.  An Exotic species is one that is not native to an area, but its' introduction to the area is not detrimental, as they don't directly compete for the same resources in a manner that will hurt local species, and they do not destroy the habitat. 

[TnRiver46]

In TN, smallmouth bass is a native species and a more common catch than about anything here in the eastern portion 

[Ohioguy25]

1 hour ago, Kirtley Howe said:

In almost all places, SMB are NOT considered to be an INVASIVE species. They are considered to be an EXOTIC species. An invasive species is bad because they out-compete native species for resources (food, spawning areas, etc), and/or destroy the habitat.  An Exotic species is one that is not native to an area, but its' introduction to the area is not detrimental, as they don't directly compete for the same resources in a manner that will hurt local species, and they do not destroy the habitat. 

Where is it native to?

[TnRiver46]

4 minutes ago, Ohioguy25 said:

Where is it native to?

TN , Ohio, Kentucky, Missouri, Mississippi River and lots of it’s tributaries 

[Ohioguy25]

1 hour ago, TnRiver46 said:

TN , Ohio, Kentucky, Missouri, Mississippi River and lots of it’s tributaries 

Did they originate in southern Ontario/Great Lakes region?

[TnRiver46]

3 minutes ago, Ohioguy25 said:

Did they originate in southern Ontario/Great Lakes region?

 

sure looks like it, among other places like the entire Midwest 

[Dye99]

11 hours ago, Dwight Hottle said:

 

Your not fishing Dworshak Reservoir. It's been on fire with big fish & a new record for several years now. 

https://www.google.com/search?q=idaho+state+record+smallmouth+bass&sxsrf=APwXEddnylqV09LjPAp96OYpQSlpM6OU3w%3A1686571808703&source=hp&ei=IAuHZKWdKKCvqtsP_c-9wA4&iflsig=AOEireoAAAAAZIcZMOCUzhwmzKWB3KNNJsMlmYeP_vGn&

 

That was an awesome fish! D-shack is indeed awesome but even in my neck of the woods it's not uncommon to pull 4-7 pounders to the boat. North Idaho definitely has an amazing fishery when it comes to smallies...

Being a Texas fisherman Ive slowly but surely become a fan of the brown back over largies.

[1984isNOW]

I think there's a little bit of a conflation of terms here regarding what people mean by keeping fish and its impact on population.

 

Keeping bass in general isn't necessarily detrimental, but keeping big bass is indeed detrimental to "big bass population." If there's 10,000 bass taking a few is no big deal, if there's 100 bass over 7 pounds taking a few is a big deal.

 

My cousin ate a 7 pound smallie,  he was bragging about catching a monster. I told him he took the chance of his boy ever catching that fish away. He took the chance of any other angler away, I'm not impressed I'm disappointed. You wanna eat smallies fine, but let the ones who made it live. Nobody should be allowed to take a bass over 4 - that's a fish who's seen a lot and earned his place.

 

 

[TnRiver46]

31 minutes ago, Kites R4 Skyfishing said:

I think there's a little bit of a conflation of terms here regarding what people mean by keeping fish and its impact on population.

 

Keeping bass in general isn't necessarily detrimental, but keeping big bass is indeed detrimental to "big bass population." If there's 10,000 bass taking a few is no big deal, if there's 100 bass over 7 pounds taking a few is a big deal.

 

My cousin ate a 7 pound smallie,  he was bragging about catching a monster. I told him he took the chance of his boy ever catching that fish away. He took the chance of any other angler away, I'm not impressed I'm disappointed. You wanna eat smallies fine, but let the ones who made it live. Nobody should be allowed to take a bass over 4 - that's a fish who's seen a lot and earned his place.

 

 

Or one that is old, has quit spawning 2-3 years ago, and going to die anyway 

 

it should be based on science not human emotion, nostalgia, or preferences 

[MassBass]

It's my understanding that the bigger the female, the more eggs are produced, the more likely some will survive.. Fish don't have menopause. There is truth to the theory of big fish genes, and through over harvest of big fish, the gene pool becomes all small fish.

[TnRiver46]

1 hour ago, MassBass said:

It's my understanding that the bigger the female, the more eggs are produced, the more likely some will survive.. Fish don't have menopause. There is truth to the theory of big fish genes, and through over harvest of big fish, the gene pool becomes all small fish.

It’s a bell curve and there is a downhill side if they live long enough 

[IcatchDinks]

On 6/12/2023 at 3:37 PM, TnRiver46 said:

TN , Ohio, Kentucky, Missouri, Mississippi River and lots of it’s tributaries 

You forgot the Great Lakes. 

[TnRiver46]

6 hours ago, IcatchDinks said:

You forgot the Great Lakes. 

I got them in my next post when I said the entire Midwest 

[IcatchDinks]

17 hours ago, TnRiver46 said:

I got them in my next post when I said the entire Midwest 

oops. I missed that. lol

 

[TnRiver46]

7 hours ago, IcatchDinks said:

oops. I missed that. lol

 

Nowadays they look like Great Lakes groupers, all swollen on gobies. Love em 

[Ohioguy25]

40 minutes ago, TnRiver46 said:

Nowadays they look like Great Lakes groupers, all swollen on gobies. Love em 

Yeah I saw a graph somewhere of their growth from the start of the Gobie invasion to now and it was pretty much a J curve, they exploded. Zebras helped tremendously too.

[TnRiver46]

The beasts have been unleashed 

[dytmook]

Seems good to me. The fish I catch look healthy and while not exactly the same I have caught a ton of obese rock bass this year. Seems our system is pretty healthy 

[MassBass]

The fishery in my backyard, a fairly sizable system, is all stunted smallmouth. Three years here and I have not caught a solid 3lber, or really anything close to that. If you ask locals, you might hear a legend, but as of now I believe the gene pool is stunted. 

[gim]

On 6/13/2023 at 10:58 AM, TnRiver46 said:

Or one that is old, has quit spawning 2-3 years ago, and going to die anyway 

 

it should be based on science not human emotion, nostalgia, or preferences 

With that mindset, they're all going to eventually die anyways, so why release them.

 

The regs here only allow harvest of fish under 17 inches (Mille Lacs).  I know its the exact opposite of the regulation you have there but eating larger fish is also unhealthier too because they have more bio-accumulation built up in their bodies.

 

Its generally good to have a mix of younger AND older fish in a specific population.  The issue is that its much harder to replace older fish because they are a long term investment.  Its like chopping down an 80 year old tree.  You can plant a new one, but we're still 80 years from actually replacing it.

 

Removing some small to mid-size fish for harvest can be very beneficial.  There's only so much a population a body of water can handle based on available carrying capacity.  I would prefer to be more cautious and actively prevent a stunted or reduced population rather than try to fix it after a problem has occurred.  The MN DNR made that mistake here with northern pike and they've been trying to fix it for 20 years now.  We need to look beyond the forest and see the fire coming, not let it start and then try to put it out.

[TnRiver46]

34 minutes ago, gimruis said:

With that mindset, they're all going to eventually die anyways, so why release them.

 

 

Don’t tempt me with a good time……….

 

sometimes your tree is 75 and not 80 and falls over dead, happened at my house. Also you don’t have to plant another tree, they do that on their own 

 

we do have a slot limit on free flowing rivers in TN. You can keep fish under 13 and over 17, the ones inbetween 13 and 17 have been found to be the prime breeders, opposite of what everyone thinks so they protect that length range. The ones over 17” have already spread their DNA for several years 

 

All that said, most biologists will tell you Mother Nature is going to kill way more fish than any human can with a fishing pole. It’s called consumptive mortality and it’s documented extensively. No matter what humans take, Mother Nature takes way more and adjust herself accordingly. People arguing over what each other harvest is mainly just ado over nothing in the big scheme. People must blame each other for everything, tale as old as time