D day

[jbmaine]

June 6 1944-----D day--------79 years ago today.

Please never forget the sacrifices our men and women in uniform made for us. Thank you.

 

[VTFan]

The Greatest Generation.  A BIG Heartfelt thankyou to them. 

[BrianMDTX]

Every invasion has a D-Day and H-Hour. Yet say “D-Day” and most will know exactly what your are referencing. The Sixth of June, 1944. The largest amphibious invasion the world had ever seen. Had Hitler released the Panzers immediately and repelled the invasion on the beaches, things may have ended up drastically different. Thankfully he took a sleeping pill and Modell would not awaken him. 

[Swamp Girl]

56 minutes ago, BrianMDTX said:

Every invasion has a D-Day and H-Hour. Yet say “D-Day” and most will know exactly what your are referencing. The Sixth of June, 1944. The largest amphibious invasion the world had ever seen. Had Hitler released the Panzers immediately and repelled the invasion on the beaches, things may have ended up drastically different. Thankfully he took a sleeping pill and Modell would not awaken him. 

 

I did not know this, Brian. Wouldn't our overwhelming air power have made mincemeat of the Panzers? I suppose that would have been weather dependent.

 

If you've never read "Citizen Soldiers," I encourage you to do so. 

[Catt]

Past or present, I remember them all everyday.

 

[BrianMDTX]

46 minutes ago, ol'crickety said:

 

I did not know this, Brian. Wouldn't our overwhelming air power have made mincemeat of the Panzers? I suppose that would have been weather dependent.

 

If you've never read "Citizen Soldiers," I encourage you to do so. 

Even without the reserve Panzer divisions, the invasion almost failed due to the struggles at Omaha. Had all those German tanks been available, the beachhead would likely have become untenable and the invasion may have failed. Allied airpower was superior in numbers but would likely not have stopped three Panzer divisions assigned to Field Marshal Rommel. Of the 2nd, 21st and 116th Panzer divisions assigned to Army Group B under Rommel, the only division that saw any significant action on D-Day was the 21st Panzer at Caen. It stopped the British and Canadian attack and allowed reinforcements to arrive and secure the area. A battle tasked to take one or two days stretched into two months. 
 

Rommel knew that keeping the Panzers in the rear areas in reserve would have opened them to air attack unless moved forward under cover of night or bad weather. He knew that with the varied terrain of coastal France that the invasion needed to be met and thrown back into the sea on the beaches. Fortunately Hitler, along with Field Marshal Von Rundstedt and Generaloberst Heinz Guderian, did not share that sentiment. 
 

 

[Swamp Girl]

11 minutes ago, BrianMDTX said:

Even without the reserve Panzer divisions, the invasion almost failed due to the struggles at Omaha. Had all those German tanks been available, the beachhead would likely have become untenable and the invasion may have failed. Allied airpower was superior in numbers but would likely not have stopped three Panzer divisions assigned to Field Marshal Rommel. Of the 2nd, 21st and 116th Panzer divisions assigned to Army Group B under Rommel, the only division that saw any significant action on D-Day was the 21st Panzer at Caen. It stopped the British and Canadian attack and allowed reinforcements to arrive and secure the area. A battle tasked to take one or two days stretched into two months. 
 

Rommel knew that keeping the Panzers in the rear areas in reserve would have opened them to air attack unless moved forward under cover of night or bad weather. He knew that with the varied terrain of coastal France that the invasion needed to be met and thrown back into the sea on the beaches. Fortunately Hitler, along with Field Marshal Von Rundstedt and Generaloberst Heinz Guderian, did not share that sentiment. 
 

 

 

Thanks!

[Catt]

13 minutes ago, BrianMDTX said:

the invasion almost failed due to

 

Weather ?

[BrianMDTX]

An interesting aside to this is the Naval Gunfire Debate. With all four Iowa class battleships now floating museum ships, and the cancellation of the 155mm Advanced Gun System for the Zumwalt class destroyers, the US Navy possesses nothing larger than the 5” Mark 45 guns for naval bombardment during amphibious landings. Bombs and missles are not quite the substitute for sustained heavy naval gunfire in support of amphibious operations. During the Gulf War, Iraqi shore defenses were shelled by the 16” guns of Missouri and Wisconsin. After a hiatus, Wisconsin took station off the coast to resume shelling and launched its Pioneer UAV to spot targets for the guns. When the Iraqis saw the drone, they surrendered to it vs facing another round of devastating heavy naval gunfire. 
 

Should US troops ever need to invade the shores of an enemy nation again, the lack of heavy naval gunfire may play a role in the success of the invasion and increase in casualties. 

[Mike L]

I remember as a kid my Ma, her sisters and brothers would go to a Cemetery in a West Chicago suburb every year on this date to “Say hello to your Uncle Jim” 

Me, my brothers and cousins had no choice, we all went. 

Sorry, I know I posted this before but his name needs to be repeated.

I’m told that he crash landed in glider behind the lines. Most were killed on impact. 

He was there and died with his boots on…

Uncle Jim

Sargent

101st Airborne Div

Normandy France 

June 6, 1944

 

 

 

 

 

[Catt]

30 minutes ago, Mike L said:

Sorry, I know I posted this before but his name needs to be repeated.

 

I support our veterans & first responders everyday!

 

My Dad on the right

 

 

[Mobasser]

2 minutes ago, Catt said:

 

I support our veterans & first responders everyday!

 

My Dad on the right

 

 

I always support these men too Catt. Stand for our flag and take a knee for our fallen.

[BrianMDTX]

@Mike L God bless Sergeant “Uncle” Jim. If not for men like him, where would we be? 

[CountryboyinDC]

1 hour ago, BrianMDTX said:

Should US troops ever need to invade the shores of an enemy nation again, the lack of heavy naval gunfire may play a role in the success of the invasion and increase in casualties. 

I don't think we're hopping in Higgins boats and assaulting pill boxes in the near future.  Them Navy boys and girls got stuff on cruisers, destroyers, frigates, and fast attacks that have stuff that the old battleships with their 16" guns couldn't have dreamed of.  There is the matter of how many rounds you can hold in your magazines, and the how long it takes to replenish these high-tech munitions, but I don't believe naval gunfire is going to be a determining factor in any invasion that involves a modern military.  We are still jumping out of airplanes in mass tactical formations, so we're still doing some pretty arcane stuff in the military.

 

The D-Day Memorial is in Bedford, VA, my home county.  https://www.dday.org/  If you're passing through, it's worth a stopping off as you go down 460.  The main issue is they built it 25 years too late - most of the D-Day veterans had died by the time it was dedicated.  I still remember that hot day - people passing out everywhere.  I must have started 20 IVs.

 

[ironbjorn]

4 hours ago, BrianMDTX said:

Every invasion has a D-Day and H-Hour. Yet say “D-Day” and most will know exactly what your are referencing. The Sixth of June, 1944. The largest amphibious invasion the world had ever seen. Had Hitler released the Panzers immediately and repelled the invasion on the beaches, things may have ended up drastically different. Thankfully he took a sleeping pill and Modell would not awaken him. 

Note to self: When I feel like a failure just remember that Hitler existed.

[gim]

My Grandfather on my Father's side of the family fought in WW2.  His unit liberated Buchenwald concentration camp in Germany.  He died of cancer about 15 years ago.  He rarely talked about being in the service, mostly because he did some things during his service that he wasn't necessarily proud of.  They did what they were ordered to do and the end result was achieved.

[BrianMDTX]

30 minutes ago, CountryboyinDC said:

Them Navy boys and girls got stuff on cruisers, destroyers, frigates, and fast attacks that have stuff that the old battleships with their 16" guns couldn't have dreamed of.

That is not true. The largest gun in US Navy inventory is a 5” gun. That pales in comparison to an 8” gun that were the armament on cruisers, let alone 12”, 14” or 16” guns on battleships. Modern US warships may have cruise missiles, which are vastly more expensive per shot (albeit with a much longer range). And yeah, not Higgins boats. But any amphibious assault is going to land troops by water. Without sustained heavy naval gunfire, it may not be pretty. 
 

And never say never. After the USSR dissolved, many thought an invasion and land war in Europe was a thing of the past. To which I think most Ukrainians which vociferously disagree. It could be North Korea. Or Taiwan. Who knows what the future holds? 

[TnRiver46]

3 hours ago, Mike L said:

I remember as a kid my Ma, her sisters and brothers would go to a Cemetery in a West Chicago suburb every year on this date to “Say hello to your Uncle Jim” 

Me, my brothers and cousins had no choice, we all went. 

Sorry, I know I posted this before but his name needs to be repeated.

I’m told that he crash landed in glider behind the lines. Most were killed on impact. 

He was there and died with his boots on…

Uncle Jim

Sargent

101st Airborne Div

Normandy France 

June 6, 1944

 

 

 

 

 

Much thanks and honor to uncle Jim! His bravery will not be forgotten. 

[A-Jay]

A-Jay

[CountryboyinDC]

1 hour ago, BrianMDTX said:

That is not true. The largest gun in US Navy inventory is a 5” gun. That pales in comparison to an 8” gun that were the armament on cruisers, let alone 12”, 14” or 16” guns on battleships. Modern US warships may have cruise missiles, which are vastly more expensive per shot (albeit with a much longer range). And yeah, not Higgins boats. But any amphibious assault is going to land troops by water. Without sustained heavy naval gunfire, it may not be pretty. 
 

I'll agree to disagree.  When you have antishipping missiles that can kill any surface ship well over the horizon, a gun isn't really in play.  Sure, if the warship could get into range of the onshore targets it could reek havoc with a cannon.  But that's pretty unlikely with anything other than what today is a primitive opposing force.  And you certainly wouldn't do bother with an amphibious assault against a primitive force. 

 

I've never been to any kind of war strategy institution, just a guy who thinks about the world around him.  I'm a fan of conventional artillery, A-10s, and a lot of things that are unfashionable in the military.  But thinking that we're going back fighting the way we did in the days of the Normandy beaches, Iwo Jima, or anything like that is something that I doubt.  Good thing too, probably.   I certainly wouldn't want to scale a 100' cliff under fire, but I'm thankful there were men with that mettle that did.

[jbmaine]

Thanks everyone for the replies. My dad and uncle both served in WW2, and both came home. Neither talked much about it, but I do know my dad was in the navy on a destroyer, and my uncle was a pilot, flying B 17's in England.

[BrianMDTX]

1 hour ago, jbmaine said:

Thanks everyone for the replies. My dad and uncle both served in WW2, and both came home. Neither talked much about it, but I do know my dad was in the navy on a destroyer, and my uncle was a pilot, flying B 17's in England.

For all you know, your uncle may have flown missions alongside Jimmy Stewart! 

[Columbia Craw]

My Uncle and name sake was a Pathfinder for the Canadian Expeditionary Force on D-Day.  The history has been written.  Those boys tasked to storm the beaches entered hell on earth.  The greatest generation for sure.

[BrianMDTX]

2 hours ago, Columbia Craw said:

My Uncle and name sake was a Pathfinder for the Canadian Expeditionary Force on D-Day.  The history has been written.  Those boys tasked to storm the beaches entered hell on earth.  The greatest generation for sure.

If you’re from Canada, you probably hear a lot of what Canadian forces did in WWII. In the US, it’s mostly what the US did, followed by Britain. But the Canadians fought like hell, and they were all volunteers. 
 

I just watched a great movie on Netflix last week, “The Forgotten Battle”. About the Battle of the Scheldt, which occurred shortly after D-Day in The Netherlands. The Scheldt was an area still heavily fortified by the Germans and prevented the usage of Antwerp as a deep-water port that was required to resupply the Allies push into Germany. If not for the valiant effort of those Canadians, the war in Europe may have turned out differently and Soviet forces may have been able to occupy most of Germany. We should all be proud of their accomplishments! 

[MN Fisher]

34 minutes ago, BrianMDTX said:

If you’re from Canada, you probably hear a lot of what Canadian forces did in WWII.

One man who landed on Juno Beach later became famous for something else. During the night after the landing, he took 6 rounds from a machine gun...four to the leg, one to the chest that was stopped by his cigarette case, and one that took off the middle finger of his right hand...in his later career, he did what he could to hide that, but occasionally it did show.

 

The man was Lt. James Doohan - also known as Chief Engineer Montgomery Scott of the USS Enterprise.

 

https://allthatsinteresting.com/james-doohan

 

Oh, and it was 'friendly fire'...a nervous sentry from his own unit.