Long vs "short" flipping/punching rods

[Cody28]

I know the standard for a flipping/punching rod is 7'6" to 7'11", but what is the benefit to this added length? I am debating between getting the St. Croix LTB 7'11" HMF (rated to 2.5 oz) and 7'4" HF (rated to 1.5 oz). I typically am punching 3/4 to 1 oz and maybe have used 1.5 oz once in my life. Not really casting the weight anyways, so this may not even matter. Any opinions on these two rods or rods for this technique in general would be helpful, as I am slightly worried the 7'11" will be too much rod to use all day. 

[Delaware Valley Tackle]

We float fish 10hrs a day with 13’ rods for steelhead. You’ll be ok. I like longer rods especially for flipping. Extra reach and ability to move lots of line for Hook sets and moving the fish. 

[r83srock]

I don’t punch a lot and I don’t have the exact rods you are enquiring about but close. I had the Mojo Bass 7’11” flipping rod and couldn’t get comfortable with it at all. I ended up with a Mojo Bass and Bass X 7’ 4” H and it works great for me. The little bit I punch it works great, otherwise I have an A rig tied on or a frog. Punching is pretty vertical and don’t think you need a super long rod imo.

[Hammer 4]

I'm with DVT. I generally use a 8' rod, but I have used a 7'6" a couple of times, I prefer the 8 footer.

[Cody28]

6 hours ago, Delaware Valley Tackle said:

We float fish 10hrs a day with 13’ rods for steelhead. You’ll be ok. I like longer rods especially for flipping. Extra reach and ability to move lots of line for Hook sets and moving the fish. 

Gotcha. I'll give it a try I guess. That being said, a 13 foot steelhead rod is a feather compared to any bass rod. Plus its a totally different style of rod use all day. I whip those around all day in the rivers no problem. 

[Cbump]

If I was using the 1oz weight plus hook plus plastic I would want the 2.5oz rated rod. 

[KP Duty]

I had a 7-6" flippin' stick, and added a lightweight 7-11" rig this winter.  Something I never hear mentioned is how your bait is affected, as in how the rod moves the bait.  When tight to cover, I want to drop my bait in the petfect spot and if not bit on the initial fall, I want to pop my bait straight up...not move it towards me like a shorter rod will do.

[Captain Phil]

When Dee Thomas started winning tournaments back in the 80s, his fishing technique opened a lot of eyes.  Contrary to what many people believe, Dee didn't invent flipping, he refined it.  For hundreds of years, bass fishermen had been using long cane poles to present bait vertically into cover .  They called it "Tule Dipping".  In the South, they called it "Doodle Socking".   Some tournament competitors complained that Dee had an unfair advantage with his rod length.  Ray Scott asked Dee how long a rod did he need?  For lack of an answer, Dee told Ray 8' 6" was long enough. 

 

The question is "Do you need a long rod to flip/pitch/punch for bass"?  All are vertical fishing techniques. When using these techniques, at least 95% of bass hit the lure on the way down or just off the bottom.  It is the fall that triggers the strike.  I have seen a few times when bouncing the lure off the bottom triggered a strike in the dead of winter.  Keep in mind that I only fish in Florida, so this may be different in colder states.  My feeling is using a long heavy rod when flipping is not necessary and it may in fact cost you fish.  Sure you can reach father, but you also lose sensitivity.   What I want is a rod that I can hold all day without fatigue. I want it to be sensitive so I can feel if the fish has the lure in it's mouth before I pull it out.  I have flipped with 8' 6" flipping sticks so stiff you could pole vault with it.  I have also flipped with a 7' 2" modern composite rod and I don't see the difference in fish catching ability.  Everyone is different, what feels better to you is what you should use.

[WRB]

When the OP states flipping the longer the rod the better because you don’t cast using the reel, only the rod.

Casting longer rod a short distance accurately pitching is far more accurate, basically flipping using the reel to let out additional line.

Punching the shorter rod works good as you are making a cast higher off the water to punch the weight through cover.

Shorter rod is far more accurate to cast and hit smaller targets.

Choices!

Tom 

[T-Billy]

For all around pitching I prefer 7'4" - 7'6". They're less fatiguing than the longer rods and just generally more comfortable for me. For punching, pitching deep grass, or flippin/pitching brushy stuff where I'll be stroking the bait with my line draped over a limb, I'll take the long rod every time. It's ability to move more line helps keep me in position to set the hook without having to reel down. A 1.5 oz rating is minimum, with 2 or 2.5 being better for all lengths. 

[Captain Phil]

While we are on this subject, the question sometimes arises if it's better to flip/pitch standing up or sitting down.   For years I flipped standing while leaning against a butt seat. As I grew older, I started to have trouble standing for long periods of time, so I started flipping sitting down.  It took me some time to get used to this as you have to lift your arms higher than when standing.   The best flippers are tall left handed anglers who have a farther reach and can lift the bait over reeds and surface obstacles.  Left handed anglers can also flip without changing hands.  Sitting down also has an advantage in that you are less visible to the fish.  Casting a shadow on the water when flipping is something I try to avoid.  I believe it also helps if you dress in nature colors. 

[WRB]

The late Dee Thomas always flipped sitting and Dave Gliebe stood pitching. Dee was shorter and stout, Dave was tall and thin. Dee started with 12’ rods until rule changes forced him to use 8’ rods with a reel. Dave used 8’ rods with a reel.

Don’t believe physic makes a difference, sitting is less tiring vs standing let’s you see into the water better.

Nearly 80 but prefer standing, easier for me to cast more accurately.

I use Irod IRG754F (7’5”) rod for flipping, pitching, punching casting swim, wake, glides to 2 oz., not ideal but worked good.

Tom

 

[DEPS_250]

The way I see it...

 

Short Rod Pros

_ More Sensitivity

_ Better Accuracy

_ Less Fatiguing/Tiring/Taxing

 

Short Rod Cons

_ Less line pickup on hook set

_ Less leverage on getting fish to the surface and out of cover

 

Long Rod Pros 

_ More line pickup on hook set

_ More leverage on getting fish to the surface and out of cover

 

Long Rod Cons

_ Less Sensitivity

_ Reduced Accuracy

_ More Fatiguing/Tiring/Taxing

 

Height of the angler plays a little too I think. I am short and I prefer a short rod for flipping and punching. 7'4" to 7'6" is about the range of rods I like for flipping and punching sticks. I will absolutely not go over 7'6". Tried a 7'11" flipping stick and it is way too long and taxing/tiring/fatiguing.

 

Taller guys can definitely get away with fishing longer rods if they have the strength and stamina to do so/last. Ish Monroe and Jared Lintner are some of the best modern era pro west coast flippers/punchers. I believe Ish is 6'2"-6'3". Jared Lintner is 6'4". Some of the best flippers and punchers on the west coast are over 6' tall and most of them use 7'11" or 8'0" rods. 

 

On the other hand, I also know some short guys around my height who can also flip with 7'11" rods too. I am pretty sure shorter guys can flip longer rods given if they practice enough and get a 'dialed in' setup going that they can than master.

 

I think Dee Thomas is 5'6"-5'7" right? 

 

I also know some guys who are tall and that prefer shorter rods also. Therefore, its all personal preference and what you are willing to spend time on and sacrifice with.

 

Are there any anglers in here who are tall (6'0"+) and that prefer shorter rods for flipping and punching? Does anyone know of a pro angler who is short and that likes to flip and punch with a long (7'9"-8'0") rod?

 

 

[WRB]

If you have a reel on the rod it takes up 2’ of line with each full handle turn faster then a long rod. Only hook set with the rod when the lure is nearly vertical with a straight lift.

Learned to do this with 5’ pistol grip rod back in 50’s, more then 1 way to stick a bass.

Tom

 

[Captain Phil]

When traditional flipping, you do not use the reel to cast the bait. I am 6' tall and flip sitting down.  I am right handed, so I hold the rod in my right hand and control the line with my left. For a long time I had problems if I did not move my left hand to the reel on the drop.  If I got a strike, I would jerk the rod up to set the hook. If I hooked a fish, this put me in an awkward position with too much line off the reel.  You don't want to see a ten pound bass jumping around on slack line.  It's happened to me and it's not a good feeling.  The amount of slack line is controlled by the position of your hand holding the line.  I don't know if anyone else has ever had this issue, but it's something I have struggled with.

[Bass Rutten]

On 6/3/2023 at 6:48 PM, DEPS_250 said:

Short Rod Cons

_ Less line pickup on hook set

_ Less leverage on getting fish to the surface and out of cover

I don't think that's right, the shorter rod will give you more leverage for lifting power, not less. Many people confuse a first class lever (think pry bar) with a third class lever (think shovel or fishing rod) when discussing leverage. Longer is more leverage only when the fulcrum is between the force and the load.

[Cody28]

On 3/26/2024 at 11:09 AM, Bass Rutten said:

I don't think that's right, the shorter rod will give you more leverage for lifting power, not less. Many people confuse a first class lever (think pry bar) with a third class lever (think shovel or fishing rod) when discussing leverage. Longer is more leverage only when the fulcrum is between the force and the load.

My understanding is less leverage in the sense that a longer rod pulls the fish straight up out of the cover more than through it. Not so much the physics definition of leverage.