When I talk about the larger diameter of US bass rods...

[ska4fun]

From left to right, some rods from brazilian market:

 

1- Rapala TS2 Spinning (30lb, H-power)

2- Shimano Compre (a 20lb rod underrated as a 15lb one, in the most shimanoish way. Actually the brand used the good reputation of the previous models, to sell a rod with cheaper carbon blank. 36ton to 24ton downgrade). The green old compres are the real deal.

3- Saint Datsun (10lb, ML-Power) - braziliam OEM brand

4- Maruri H y p e r i o n (8lb, UL-power)- brazilian OEM brand. Seems like the rod name trigger someone here since it's automatically censored.

5- Rapala Gold II (8lb, UL-power)

 

In the past, I noted US brands were using cheaper carbon meshes, in their rods, even more so in the mid to high-end lines. The large diameter is a classic indicator of cheaper carbon mesh, in spite of the fiber density, or tonnage.

 

I saw a Phenix Classic BFS rod and It has the same diameter as the first blue H-power rod in the picture, just above the foregrip. The same thing happens in the Dobyns Sierra Series, Shimano Expride...

 

None of the rods pictured are trout ones, all classic bass rods.

[ironbjorn]

My Expride isn't fat.

[ska4fun]

2 hours ago, ironbjorn said:

My Expride isn't fat.

 

This one?

[Hulkster]

Enter the fat ones into the annual Miss Bum Bum competition

[Tatulatard]

Japanese BFS rods have similar large diameters at the reel seat.  Its why they are so powerful.  They are designed for fishing bass lures around cover.  From the prototype modern BFS rod from fenwick japan to the newest BFS offerings they all have a pretty large diameter blank once you get down to the reel seat.  Most completely shut off from the 1st guide to the butt.  As bass rods they need this power down deep to steer fish out of cover.  It's actually the defining characteristic of identifying a BFS rod over a regular taper L or UL casting rod.  Its not a BFS rod unless it's big like that.  Otherwise its just a normal L or UL casting rod and those predate BFS rods.

[GetFishorDieTryin]

Its difficult to draw conclusions about a blank just from its dia.  The older (pre IPC) SC blanks had a considerably thinner dia.  I didnt like the ergonomics or looks of the newer blanks, a M power as slightly thicker then the older H power.  Ive got a pre IPC and post 6'6 MH F Tidemaster.  If anything the later model with the thicker blank is more sensitive.  At the same time you can look the explosion of slow pitch rods up here in the NE.  They dont look or feel like they would be strong enough to be an effective jiggin rod, but the backbone in those thin blanks is deceptively strong.

[Logan S]

Some of the lightest and most sensitive blanks I've ever used are also considerably large on diameter near the butt.  It's a function of overall blank design and simply comparing brand X to brand Y on blank diameter alone tells you almost nothing.  

[ska4fun]

2 hours ago, Tatulatard said:

Japanese BFS rods have similar large diameters at the reel seat.  Its why they are so powerful.  They are designed for fishing bass lures around cover.  From the prototype modern BFS rod from fenwick japan to the newest BFS offerings they all have a pretty large diameter blank once you get down to the reel seat.  Most completely shut off from the 1st guide to the butt.  As bass rods they need this power down deep to steer fish out of cover.  It's actually the defining characteristic of identifying a BFS rod over a regular taper L or UL casting rod.  Its not a BFS rod unless it's big like that.  Otherwise its just a normal L or UL casting rod and those predate BFS rods.

This need of power is very strange for me...  So bass fishing needs more powerful rods than Peacock Bass fishing, known for fighting both hard and dirty? Someone quoted using 65lb or something like that for bass fishing in structures. This is way above what is used for giant Peacock bass fishing in Amazon.

 

10 minutes ago, GetFishorDieTryin said:

Its difficult to draw conclusions about a blank just from its dia.  The older (pre IPC) SC blanks had a considerably thinner dia.  I didnt like the ergonomics or looks of the newer blanks, a M power as slightly thicker then the older H power.  Ive got a pre IPC and post 6'6 MH F Tidemaster.  If anything the later model with the thicker blank is more sensitive.  At the same time you can look the explosion of slow pitch rods up here in the NE.  They dont look or feel like they would be strong enough to be an effective jiggin rod, but the backbone in those thin blanks is deceptively strong.

That's a pretty good point. Here I see these large diameter being used by a cheap local  brand called Lumis rods. The thing who allows thinner blanks is a combination of intermediate to  high tonnage carbon (36-40ton at least) blended with high-quality resin.

3 minutes ago, Logan S said:

Some of the lightest and most sensitive blanks I've ever used are also considerably large on diameter near the butt.  It's a function of overall blank design and simply comparing brand X to brand Y on blank diameter alone tells you almost nothing.  

That's strange, since the evolution of carbon mesh modules is what allowed thinner and lighter blanks, with the muscle carbon/36ton being the turning point in the matter. Would love to understand the reason behind it.

[garroyo130]

9 hours ago, ska4fun said:

From left to right, some rods from brazilian market:

 

1- Rapala TS2 Spinning (30lb, H-power)

2- Shimano Compre (a 20lb rod underrated as a 15lb one, in the most shimanoish way. Actually the brand used the good reputation of the previous models, to sell a rod with cheaper carbon blank. 36ton to 24ton downgrade). The green old compres are the real deal.

3- Saint Datsun (10lb, ML-Power) - braziliam OEM brand

4- Maruri H y p e r i o n (8lb, UL-power)- brazilian OEM brand. Seems like the rod name trigger someone here since it's automatically censored.

5- Rapala Gold II (8lb, UL-power)

 

In the past, I noted US brands were using cheaper carbon meshes, in their rods, even more so in the mid to high-end lines. The large diameter is a classic indicator of cheaper carbon mesh, in spite of the fiber density, or tonnage.

 

I saw a Phenix Classic BFS rod and It has the same diameter as the first blue H-power rod in the picture, just above the foregrip. The same thing happens in the Dobyns Sierra Series, Shimano Expride...

 

None of the rods pictured are trout ones, all classic bass rods.

 

So in the picture, what's fat and what isn't? The Hyper ion looks fattest for its rating to me. Also, y'all don't use Kg ratings?

[ska4fun]

3 minutes ago, garroyo130 said:

 

So in the picture, what's fat and what isn't? The Hyper ion looks fattest for its rating to me. Also, y'all don't use Kg ratings?

For both BFS rods in the picture, the Hyper.ion (what bassresource has against this name), it show how it's 24ton blank diameter is larger than the 36ton one for the Rapala Gold II and the 40ton one for the Saint Datsun. It has the same diameter, slightly thinner than thw 24ton Shimano Compre. But it is way thinner than the one for the H-power Rapala TS2.

[garroyo130]

Still confused. So the rapala gold and datsun are good and everything else is cheap?? 

[ska4fun]

26 minutes ago, garroyo130 said:

Still confused. So the rapala gold and datsun are good and everything else is cheap?? 

No. The first blue one is thicker because it is a H-power rod. It's just as thick as a bass fishing, evem bfs rod. The Rapala Gold (36ton) and the Saint Datsun (40ton) have better blanks, reflecting on their diameter and weight. The Shimano Compre has a very cheap blank, I suspect the same of the slx series, of lower quality than the older compre series (36ton).

[Darth-Baiter]

i think in Summary, the Brazilians have smaller rods?    

 

i'll be in Brazil soon. the guide instructed us to spool up with nothing smaller than 65lb braid.  i am gonna bring one reel with 40, just cuz the line is so new.   i'll be the grinning dude with a big Peacock.  i will be playing with the guides diminutive rods.  the brazil noodle.  

[ska4fun]

Just now, Darth-Baiter said:

i think in Summary, the Brazilians have smaller rods?    

 

i'll be in Brazil soon. the guide instructed us to spool up with nothing smaller than 65lb braid.  i am gonna bring one reel with 40, just cuz the line is so new.   i'll be the grinning dude with a big Peacock.  i will be playing with the guides diminutive rods.  the brazil noodle.  

That's what I said before. A dude was saying it was using such braid for bass because he is fishing in cover... I simply can't conceiving a bass needing the same kind of line used for Temensis Giant Peacock basses. Something just don't add up.

 

Playing? Surely after removing the thick fat cover, LOL!

[Darth-Baiter]

1 minute ago, ska4fun said:

That's what I said before. A dude was saying it was using such braid for bass because he is fishing in cover... I simply can't conceiving a bass needing the same kind of line used for Temensis Giant Peacock basses. Something just don't add up.

 

Playing? Surely after removing the thick fat cover, LOL!

here in some of our water, we yank big bass out of very tight cover.  some lily pads, etc. i dont have lily pads in my waters, but i have these thick veggie mats that are 1 meter thick, and below that is dark cool waters.  i sometimes punch a big heavy bait offering into them.  the vegetation is so thick, my fishing line plays an almost musical note, when it draws up against it.  sounds like a very badly tuned violin.   if and when a bass grabs on, you set the hook HARD, and literally which it thru the thick mat and haul it in.  there is no "playing" the fish.  the thick braid can help slice thru the mess.  

 

i have only that reel spooled with 65, but sometimes we dont play the fish.  we haul it in with zero fanfare.  

[Tatulatard]

1 hour ago, ska4fun said:

This need of power is very strange for me...  So bass fishing needs more powerful rods than Peacock Bass fishing, known for fighting both hard and dirty? Someone quoted using 65lb or something like that for bass fishing in structures. This is way above what is used for giant Peacock bass fishing in Amazon.

 

That's a pretty good point. Here I see these large diameter being used by a cheap local  brand called Lumis rods. The thing who allows thinner blanks is a combination of intermediate to  high tonnage carbon (36-40ton at least) blended with high-quality resin.

That's strange, since the evolution of carbon mesh modules is what allowed thinner and lighter blanks, with the muscle carbon/36ton being the turning point in the matter. Would love to understand the reason behind it.

Yeah we are a weird bunch.  North American freshwater bass inhabit cover and will dive into that cover upon hookset or any reason at all.  The ability to lift and steer a fish away from cover is important.

[ska4fun]

32 minutes ago, Tatulatard said:

Yeah we are a weird bunch.  North American freshwater bass inhabit cover and will dive into that cover upon hookset or any reason at all.  The ability to lift and steer a fish away from cover is important.

Peacock bass inhabits cover, Eichornia, Ceratophyllum, logs, rocks, mangrove roots, Mimosa roots (very spiny), and don't demand such heavier lines, except for the Amazon Giants, Pinima and Temensis.

[ironbjorn]

8 hours ago, ska4fun said:

 

This one?

Yeah I have model B and I don't consider it fat at all. The ridiculously fat rods I've seen for their power rating come in the form of cheap combos from Lew's or Abu or rods like the Berkley Shock rod. Maybe I'm just used to what you consider fat rods so I don't consider them fat.

[ska4fun]

3 minutes ago, ironbjorn said:

Yeah I have model B and I don't consider it fat at all. The ridiculously fat rods I've seen for their power rating come in the form of cheap combos from Lew's or Abu or rods like the Berkley Shock rod. Maybe I'm just used to what you consider fat rods so I don't consider them fat.

Makes sense to me.

[WRB]

The larger diameter rod lower half with thinner wall cross section are common with composite construction and fiberglass blanks to increase hoop to yield strength reducing weight.

Smaller diameter high modulus graphite blanks are stronger then composite and can maintain strong wall construction with reduced blank diameters. 

The newer rod designs are adopting graphite light weight rod handles in lieu of building up butt diameters to accommodate reel seats saving weight.

Comparing diameters for performance is like apples and oranges, meaningless.

Tom

[ska4fun]

18 hours ago, WRB said:

The larger diameter rod lower half with thinner wall cross section are common with composite construction and fiberglass blanks to increase hoop to yield strength reducing weight.

Smaller diameter high modulus graphite blanks are stronger then composite and can maintain strong wall construction with reduced blank diameters. 

The newer rod designs are adopting graphite light weight rod handles in lieu of building up butt diameters to accommodate reel seats saving weight.

Comparing diameters for performance is like apples and oranges, meaningless.

Tom

This don't make sense. Several high modulus carbon rods, still keep a reduced overall diameter, like the Major Craft Benkei and Speedstyle, World Shaula... Increase diameter to anchor reel seats is a way to make production easier and cheaper, avoiding the use of inserts.

[garroyo130]

This thread is almost as pointless as the Temu banner ad I get at the top of this page ...

 

[ska4fun]

1 hour ago, garroyo130 said:

This thread is almost as pointless as the Temu banner ad I get at the top of this page ...

 

And yet you gave time to comment on it. Quite exquisite when words and actions are uncoordinated.

[Tatulatard]

3 hours ago, garroyo130 said:

This thread is almost as pointless as the Temu banner ad I get at the top of this page ...

 

You can shop like a billionaire

[WRB]

Making visual side by side comparisons try adding accurate measured rod diameters, takes away the subjective guess work.

Most fishing rod blanks are rolled tapered tip to butt before adding rod handles and reel seats that are not expanded blanks to accommodate the components. 

Tom