Keith Poche

[JediAmoeba]

Has anyone been following the Keith Poche story? I believe Bassmaster is really messing up on this one - they should chalk this up to a learning experience and better define future tournament boundaries. Give him his win back IMO.

 

 

[gim]

So I've been trying to find some better information and details on this, but there's not a lot out there.  Maybe someone can explain in specific plain english what exactly happened.  This is about all I can find.

 

The disqualification was handed down based on a violation of Rule 15 of the Bassmaster Opens Series rules, which reads in part: “Boats must remain in tournament waters during tournament days. Competitors must leave from and return to official checkpoints by boat. Anglers must remain in the boat at all times except in case of dire emergency or with permission from the Tournament Director.”

[JediAmoeba]

1 hour ago, gimruis said:

So I've been trying to find some better information and details on this, but there's not a lot out there.  Maybe someone can explain in specific plain english what exactly happened.  This is about all I can find.

 

The disqualification was handed down based on a violation of Rule 15 of the Bassmaster Opens Series rules, which reads in part: “Boats must remain in tournament waters during tournament days. Competitors must leave from and return to official checkpoints by boat. Anglers must remain in the boat at all times except in case of dire emergency or with permission from the Tournament Director.”

He has put out some information and from what I gathered he went over a roller dam which his tin boat allows him to go over - glass boats can't do it. He never left the boat and drove it to these spots. He seemed to do his research.

[gim]

2 hours ago, JediAmoeba said:

He has put out some information and from what I gathered he went over a roller dam which his tin boat allows him to go over - glass boats can't do it. He never left the boat and drove it to these spots. He seemed to do his research.

BASS says the area beyond that roller dam was off limits during the tournament, is that correct?

 

Randy Blaukat put a video out there on this but I can’t hardly watch that guy anymore.

[Ski]

11 hours ago, gimruis said:

BASS says the area beyond that roller dam was off limits during the tournament, is that correct?

 

Randy Blaukat put a video out there on this but I can’t hardly watch that guy anymore.

Not sure how they arrived @ that conclusion.

[TnRiver46]

On 5/12/2023 at 2:43 PM, JediAmoeba said:

Has anyone been following the Keith Poche story? I believe Bassmaster is really messing up on this one - they should chalk this up to a learning experience and better define future tournament boundaries. Give him his win back IMO.

 

 

His win? He finished 29th before they DQ’d his day 1 weight 

[NavyToad]

@Ski it looks to me like Poche was within the rules. Petty as it sounds, I think it boils down to the fact that Poche's tin boat was able to access water that his competitors were not. They chose the advantage of a bigger, fully outfitted bass boat, and Poche chose the advantage of a smaller boat that allowed him access to water that his competitors boats couldn't access.

Petty Bs IMO or what I'd call making it up as you go along. Poche put out a video on FaceBook that explains his side of it, and your "tournament Information" post seems to back up his argument.

[gim]

I am not in any way familiar with the area he tried to access and was DQ’d for. There are usually two sides to a story though. Thanks for posting the info @Ski.

 

Is it possible he left his boat to access this area? I don’t think you can physically leave your boat during tournament hours.

[TnRiver46]

25 minutes ago, gimruis said:

I am not in any way familiar with the area he tried to access and was DQ’d for. There are usually two sides to a story though. Thanks for posting the info @Ski.

 

Is it possible he left his boat to access this area? I don’t think you can physically leave your boat during tournament hours.

I saw something that said he didn’t leave the boat online, it mentioned a 200 foot roller ramp whatever that is. I did see Poche leave his boat and drag it thru rapids in an MLF event earlier this season and also saw someone get out of their boat and walk along a dock to get a lure back so I guess that’s not a rule like we thought 

[Kirtley Howe]

If I recall correctly, in MLF it is a 5 minute no fishing penalty for leaving your boat. In BASS, it is a disqualification for leaving your boat except in an emergency and/or with the Tournament Directors permission. Rules differ by organization and type of tournament. Rules are even different in Opens as opposed to Elites. Either way, Keith did not leave his boat. The disqualification is based on the idea that he left tournament waters. His argument is that the spot he fished was within tournament waters but other contestants could not reach it in their bigger, heavier fiberglass boats....which he felt was their problem, not his problem. BASS disagreed with his opinion, and since they are the sanctioning authority, they can do that. I personally disagree with their opinion, but it is their ballgame, so they can make rules and interpetations as they see fit.

[gim]

Good post @Kirtley Howe. That explains it pretty well.

[Woody B]

Gator Trax is not a BASS sponsor.  The sponsor boat companies probably don't like a "cheap" boat going places their boats can't go.  Just another reason I don't follow any professional sport.   

[Catt]

It is my understanding that Keith was in North Toledo Bend Wildlife Management Area. This is a 3,600 acre area located on Toledo Bend Reservoir. The project includes the impoundment of a 500 acre area on lands owned and made available by the SRA of Texas. SRA - Sabine River Authority 

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.toledo-bend.com/attractions/ntbwma/

[Tennessee Boy]

I remember about 30 years ago Roland Martin switched from his normal boat to a jet powered aluminum boat so he could run way up in a river.  He was not disqualified and BASS covered it heavy in the TV coverage of the event.  He was a high profile angler sponsored by Ranger.  If I remember correctly,  he called Rangers and they delivered the special boat to him at the tournament site.

[volzfan59]

3 hours ago, Tennessee Boy said:

I remember about 30 years ago Roland Martin switched from his normal boat to a jet powered aluminum boat so he could run way up in a river.  He was not disqualified and BASS covered it heavy in the TV coverage of the event.  He was a high profile angler sponsored by Ranger.  If I remember correctly,  he called Rangers and they delivered the special boat to him at the tournament site.

You're correct, Roland did use a jet rig to win a tournament. After numerous complaints from other angler's of the time, B.A.S.S. made the use of jet rigs illegal the next year.

 

That's why Ott Defoe built his custom prop, tunnel hull rig with two jack plates several years ago. One J/P set the motor back, the other was a hydraulic J/P. Used the rig to win a Douglas Lake Open. He had B.A.S.S. approval every step of the way as announced by the then Open Series Tournament Director, I don't remember his name. Mike Watson built OTT's boat and one for himself to use in the tournament. There were two other's also. Anyway, after complaints from some crybabies, B.A.S.S. made those boats illegal. Now you have to use the same type of rig all season, hince Keith using a 17' boat. History lesson is over.

[Logan S]

Would've been pretty easy to clarify with the TD before the tournament started...Just an observation from the sidelines. 

 

The way the rules are on all the trails these days...If you have to jump over something to get into a spot - Or cut your way into something to get into a spot - Or cross some other type of barrier to get into a spot...It's probably against the rules or at the very least questionable.  In which case you'd be smart clarify with the TD ahead of time if you wanted to fish whatever the spot was.  I'm not commenting whether the rules are right or wrong, just stating reality.

 

Side note...People think it's too expense to compete at the Opens/Pro level right now with the cost of boats and electronics and accessories.  If those single-boat rules weren't in place you'd have guys with literally a fleet of boats for each season....Jet or tunnel hull for river tournaments, normal bass boat for normal lakes, walleye or deep-V for big water, and maybe even more depending on the schedule.

[AlabamaSpothunter]

Dude was on the second best/hottest lake in the country, a lake that is absolutely massive at 185,000 acres, and he flirted with the gray area over 500 acres ?

 

It's his niche, from what I can gather his success is predicated on reaching places other anglers won't go to and uses a special boat to do so.  

 

I watched Randy's video on this subject, and imho felt just the opposite.   If you are among the most Elite level anglers on the planet you shouldn't have to rely on uneducated fish in gray boundary areas.   

 

That's kind of the whole point of Elite level events, to catch fish on popular public bodies of water that us mere mortals will be impressed and entertained by.   

 

As Logan S said above it's easy to call Lisa, or the Open director....and I see or hear anglers doing it often on Bass live.

 

Just my opinion on a very opinionated subject, I can see the argument for why people love his niche.   

[volzfan59]

If anyone wants to hear an in depth interview with Keith on this very subject, go listen to Luke Dunkin's Low Budget Live podcast or Luke's YouTube channel. It's interesting. I'm a huge Keith Poche fan, that said, he should have called the T/D (he admits that he didn't). That would have taken the monkey off of Keith's back. Just like when Ott legally built his river tunnel hull prop rig. He called the Open Series T/D every step of the way, with every modification. Made the whiner's protest invalid. All of that was talked about on the stage by the way.

 

Again, I'm a fan of Keith's, love his style of fishing. That said, there is always two sides to every story. I'd like to hear the B.A.S.S. side. Probably never going to happen and I'm good with that too. 

[Choporoz]

1 hour ago, Logan S said:

Would've been pretty easy to clarify with the TD before the tournament started...Just an observation from the sidelines. 

 

1 hour ago, AlabamaSpothunter said:

Dude was on the second best/hottest lake in the country, a lake that is absolutely massive at 185,000 acres, and he flirted with the gray area over 500 acres ?

 

.......   If you are among the most Elite level anglers on the planet you shouldn't have to rely on uneducated fish in gray boundary areas.   

 

That's kind of the whole point of Elite level events, to catch fish on popular public bodies of water that us mere mortals will be impressed and entertained by.    

 

It's always easy to blame the ref.  

[volzfan59]

1 hour ago, Logan S said:

Side note...People think it's too expense to compete at the Opens/Pro level right now with the cost of boats and electronics and accessories.  If those single-boat rules weren't in place you'd have guys with literally a fleet of boats for each season....Jet or tunnel hull for river tournaments, normal bass boat for normal lakes, walleye or deep-V for big water, and maybe even more depending on the schedule.

I get what you're saying. Where I'm  from (east TN) there are plenty of angler's with two or more rigs. Heck, at one time I had a Stratos/Evinrude lake rig and G3/Yamaha river rig plus a canoe and kayak. My neighbor's loved to look in my boat garage!

Edited May 15, 2023 by volzfan59

[Logan S]

28 minutes ago, volzfan59 said:

I get what you're saying. Where I'm  from (east TN) there are plenty of angler's with two or more rigs. Heck, at one time I had a Stratos/Evinrude lake rig and G3/Mercury river rig plus a canoe and kayak. My neighbor's loved to look in my boat garage!

It's like that here too...I fish against guys with that have jet boats and full size fiberglass rigs.  They'll run the jets on places where they can run up rivers and the glass boats on normal lakes.  Our local tournament trails allow it and I personally don't care....More power to them.  

[Catt]

From Texas Parks & Wildlife 

The North Toledo Bend WMA has 3,650 acres and is located in Shelby County, adjacent to Toledo Bend Reservoir.

 

Some interpret this as meaning the WMA is NOT part of the lake. Others say the WMA wasn't there until the lake was formed.

 

From SRA 

Visitors may access the area by vehicle as well as enter the 500 acre impoundment via a roller boat ramp which has been constructed on the 200 foot long embankment.

 

The question is how did Keith cross the rollers?

[volzfan59]

@Catt, On Luke Dunkin's Low Budget Live podcast Keith said that he jumped it.

[Catt]

1 hour ago, volzfan59 said:

@Catt, On Luke Dunkin's Low Budget Live podcast Keith said that he jumped it.

 

IDK, I would have to see that done!

[AmmoGuy]

3 hours ago, Catt said:

 

IDK, I would have to see that done!

 

I believe this is the jump in question? 

https://www.instagram.com/p/CsL6XSYublv/?hl=en

 

ETA: 

I linked the wrong post. Below is the intended video. 

https://www.instagram.com/p/CrJlKB7r_E5/

 

Judging by the geography seen in that video, compared to google earth satellite image of the area in question, and based on his description in the LD podcast, I'd say that's the spot. The rollers would have been "behind" the camera man. 

I don't think he actually used the rollers (at least going in). If you look at the google earth image, the timber would have prevented a good run-up at the rollers.