Another kayaker killed

[CountryboyinDC]

14 hours ago, TnRiver46 said:

What’s all this kayak only talk?? You discriminate against canoes?????

Get with the program, nobody's using a bathtub to fish out of anymore.

[Zcoker]

15 hours ago, TOXIC said:

There’s a 25mph speed limit on that entire lake.  Start enforcing the existing rules before you advocate shutting it down.  Most of the offenders are locals who feel the rules don’t apply to them.  We obeyed all the rules when we were there and also slowed to no wake speeds every time we met someone in the canals. 

 

 

 

Like you said, it's the locals who feel they own the place because they've turned it into their livelihood. Those who come out on their own are in the way, so to speak. Signs mean nothing to some of them but a few follow the rules. 

[WIGuide]

I've only had one actual close call with a kayak on the water as most around here seem pretty good about keeping themselves visible, but there's one guy on a lake I fish a lot who likes to take his kayak out in the evenings right out in front of his place. The problem is, his place is right next to the boat ramp and what compounds the issue is as the sun is setting he completely blends into the silhouette, with his dark colored kayak, his dark clothing, and lack of light. The first time I ever saw him out, I had shut down already, but I was only about 40 yards or so from him and despite paying attention to what I was doing that was the first time I had seen him because the angle changed enough that the background was a little lighter. It could have been closer, but it was more along the lines of "What if.." that made it close. Had he been further down the weedline I may have run him over. Now whenever I fish there in the evening, I shut down way earlier to avoid any issues, but it's because I know there's a chance he's there. For someone who doesn't have that information it could make for a bad situation.

 

As important as it is for boaters to pay attention to avoid any possible situations that could arise, it's equally as important for kayakers to make sure they remain as visible as possible also help avoid these situations. They sit low to the water and can easily get lost in the waves at any distance. 

[Choporoz]

My closest call in a kayak was last year near sunset.  Until that evening, I hadn't thought about my invisibility to someone driving into the sun before.  I saw him coming from the east and could see him perfectly.   Was pretty late in the scenario before I realized that he couldn't see me despite chartreuse paddle blades and yellow pfd.  Not making excuses for him being WOT in a channel right into the sun....but I'm a defensive paddler and that was a lesson for me

[Darth-Baiter]

eye and ear open at all times.  i saw a guy in a fishing channel talking with airbuds in both ears.  nope.  i'm not dying wearing those things.  

[airshot]

Back when I had my Kayak, I carried a couple of outdated flares from my big boat.  In one close call a flare was ignited and made myself very visible !!  My kayak was brite orange and a neon green vest with brite yellow paddle blades, but....still hard to spot by a boat traveling 30 plus mph.  

[dickenscpa]

I live about as close to Priest as I do Old Hickory (less than 10 miles) and have only been on Priest maybe 4 or 5 times. I hate that lake and most incidents are almost always on that lake.

 

I broke down and fished a tournament there 4/15 and a guy in a bass boat went out of his way from the boat lane (300' wide) to buzz me because he was mad I got to a spot first. Apparently we were both in a tournament. He was full speed and went on my side of a bridge piling where I had about 25' to the rip rap bank and he had 300" on the other side. Full speed and slammed me against the rip rap.

 

I lost two rods and a net but didn't fall out or flip. Luckily a father and son were crappie fishing close and got his boat number and called the police. Just PURE pettiness that could've killed me.

[Darth-Baiter]

@dickenscpai am so mad for you.  i would be livid.  

 

did the guy get busted?

[TnRiver46]

7 minutes ago, dickenscpa said:

I live about as close to Priest as I do Old Hickory (less than 10 miles) and have only been on Priest maybe 4 or 5 times. I hate that lake and most incidents are almost always on that lake.

 

I broke down and fished a tournament there 4/15 and a guy in a bass boat went out of his way from the boat lane (300' wide) to buzz me because he was mad I got to a spot first. Apparently we were both in a tournament. He was full speed and went on my side of a bridge piling where I had about 25' to the rip rap bank and he had 300" on the other side. Full speed and slammed me against the rip rap.

 

I lost two rods and a net but didn't fall out or flip. Luckily a father and son were crappie fishing close and got his boat number and called the police. Just PURE pettiness that could've killed me.

 

5 minutes ago, Darth-Baiter said:

@dickenscpai am so mad for you.  i would be livid.  

 

did the guy get busted?

A guy I went to college with is a game warden on that lake and he’s a real hard arse 

[Zcoker]

2 hours ago, WIGuide said:

I've only had one actual close call with a kayak on the water as most around here seem pretty good about keeping themselves visible, but there's one guy on a lake I fish a lot who likes to take his kayak out in the evenings right out in front of his place. The problem is, his place is right next to the boat ramp and what compounds the issue is as the sun is setting he completely blends into the silhouette, with his dark colored kayak, his dark clothing, and lack of light. The first time I ever saw him out, I had shut down already, but I was only about 40 yards or so from him and despite paying attention to what I was doing that was the first time I had seen him because the angle changed enough that the background was a little lighter. It could have been closer, but it was more along the lines of "What if.." that made it close. Had he been further down the weedline I may have run him over. Now whenever I fish there in the evening, I shut down way earlier to avoid any issues, but it's because I know there's a chance he's there. For someone who doesn't have that information it could make for a bad situation.

 

As important as it is for boaters to pay attention to avoid any possible situations that could arise, it's equally as important for kayakers to make sure they remain as visible as possible also help avoid these situations. They sit low to the water and can easily get lost in the waves at any distance. 

You are very correct, all bare the responsibility. Most of these kayakers have no sort of running lights, even though they fish at night or evenings, a small headlamp or something, about it, no coast guard approved anything. I've seen it myself many times....some of them are asking for it, if you ask me. As for boaters, they try and pay attention but that one little slip-up can mean disaster. One can only be vigilant in expecting the unexpected, which is the key, like with you shutting down early, preventing a possible collision. 

[gim]

1 hour ago, Darth-Baiter said:

did the guy get busted?

Very likely not.  They have to be caught in the act to issue a citation.  One word against another, unless he admits to it (you'd have to be pretty bone headed to do that).

 

Really no different than reporting someone is speeding at 100 mph.  Unless the trooper catches them doing it, there's nothing they can do.

 

Doesn't make any of it right, its just how the system works.  You need proof.

[dickenscpa]

19 hours ago, Darth-Baiter said:

@dickenscpai am so mad for you.  i would be livid.  

 

did the guy get busted?

Actually yes. The father/son reported him but 5 more witnessed it.

 

He launched at a ramp fairly far away with a traditional boat launch shotgun start. Since I was fishing an open lake kayak tournament I could launch at any ramp on the lake. So I launched at a small cove at the end. This little cove was one way in, one way out by water.

 

So our tournament was on the water at 5AM, lines in at 6AM. I got on the water about 4:30 and only had less than a half a mile where I started under this bridge. I sat there watching the fish boil not being able to throw until 6AM. I submitted my first fish at 6:03 catching one my very first cast. It was so quick I was actually worried they'd think I started fishing early. By 6:33 I had a limit, although not an in the money limit.

 

I have an orange flag with a 360* light, a headlamp, two graphs lit up and two forward facing beam lights on the bow. This guy didn't come thru though until about 9:30 in broad daylight. He for sure saw me because I saw him at a distance and it looked like he was gonna be close. I waved both hands in the air and he waved back and I visually saw him veer closer to me at the last minute. It was 100% intentional.

 

The police came to the ramp I launched at and he was still in the cove. Small cove and the police literally called him to the bank. I followed. He shot himself in the foot because he immediately started raging that my "little kayak" tournament cost him money because I was in his spot and ruined his chances. In reality he cost me because all the hub bub cost me the chance to cull and my day was basically over around 11:30, I had no desire to keep fishing.

 

He made arrangements for someone to pick up his boat and he left in cuffs. Initial court date 6/20/23. I thought they'd confiscate the boat but they didn't. I left early and stopped at Hardees to eat and the guy that picked up his boat was there.

[Blue Raider Bob]

On 5/4/2023 at 9:12 AM, Chris Catignani said:

I fish on Priest...Some of these bass boats a flying up lake...driver looking at the T.V.
Its not real safe...even if you in a boat.

Second this opinion. Percy Priest is less than 30 Min. away, but I drive lots farther to fish safer places. Priest is a madhouse of high traffic mixed with drunken boaters. I don't think any amount of visibility will keep kayakers safe there. So sad someone ran over this poor girl.

[TnRiver46]

6 hours ago, dickenscpa said:

Actually yes. The father/son reported him but 5 more witnessed it.

 

He launched at a ramp fairly far away with a traditional boat launch shotgun start. Since I was fishing an open lake kayak tournament I could launch at any ramp on the lake. So I launched at a small cove at the end. This little cove was one way in, one way out by water.

 

So our tournament was on the water at 5AM, lines in at 6AM. I got on the water about 4:30 and only had less than a half a mile where I started under this bridge. I sat there watching the fish boil not being able to throw until 6AM. I submitted my first fish at 6:03 catching one my very first cast. It was so quick I was actually worried they'd think I started fishing early. By 6:33 I had a limit, although not an in the money limit.

 

I have an orange flag with a 360* light, a headlamp, two graphs lit up and two forward facing beam lights on the bow. This guy didn't come thru though until about 9:30 in broad daylight. He for sure saw me because I saw him at a distance and it looked like he was gonna be close. I waved both hands in the air and he waved back and I visually saw him veer closer to me at the last minute. It was 100% intentional.

 

The police came to the ramp I launched at and he was still in the cove. Small cove and the police literally called him to the bank. I followed. He shot himself in the foot because he immediately started raging that my "little kayak" tournament cost him money because I was in his spot and ruined his chances. In reality he cost me because all the hub bub cost me the chance to cull and my day was basically over around 11:30, I had no desire to keep fishing.

 

He made arrangements for someone to pick up his boat and he left in cuffs. Initial court date 6/20/23. I thought they'd confiscate the boat but they didn't. I left early and stopped at Hardees to eat and the guy that picked up his boat was there.

Thanks for the details!!

[Jleebesaw]

On 5/4/2023 at 8:31 AM, flyfisher said:

I have been told by many boaters that what i wear and the kayak color doesn't matter for the exact reasons you stated but they did say having bright colored paddle blades draws attention much more.  Unfortunately so many fishing kayaks are now motorized or pedal power you don't see the paddles in the air as often.  I am lucky that I have a lot of lakes are HP restricted or electric only.  On the few places I fish that I have a concern of motorized boats I use my flag and flashing strobe.  

This is true. When I'm in my boat going 60mph and the wind is Maki g my glasses vibrate around, i usually see the paddles before I see the person or the kayak. I bought a fishing kayak and made sure to get very flashy bright paddle blades for that very reason. It's just something I've noticed.

[jhoffman]

As a guy whos owned multiple boats and still owns a kayak there are certain places and certain times I wouldnt DREAM of taking a kayak. Common sense these days is far from common and getting worse. You gotta run a kayak or small boat like a motorcycle with the mentality that everyone and everything is trying to kill you.

[Darth-Baiter]

thanks @dickenscpa.  

 

 

[Bankc]

2 hours ago, jhoffman said:

As a guy whos owned multiple boats and still owns a kayak there are certain places and certain times I wouldnt DREAM of taking a kayak. Common sense these days is far from common and getting worse. You gotta run a kayak or small boat like a motorcycle with the mentality that everyone and everything is trying to kill you.

Good advice.  

 

I have a "holiday lake" that I go to on Memorial Day weekend, 4th of July, Labor Day weekend, stuff like that.  It's a terrible fishing lake, but it's also not very crowded (probably because it's a terrible fishing lake and you can't waterski except in a small part right next to the dam).  And when everyone hits the good lakes all at once and is drinking and talking to their friends, it's just too dangerous to get out on the crowded lakes in a kayak.  

 

There's a good "fishing lake" that is better than my normal lakes (though a good bit of a drive) that I'll avoid on the best weather days.  Not so much because it's dangerous.  It's crowded enough with anglers that you can't really get up to speed even if you wanted to.  But I just don't find it fun.  That lake has an unwritten rule when it's crowded.  Everyone is supposed to start at one end and run around the lake counterclockwise, trolling about 15-20 feet from the bank.  If you move too slowly, they get mad at you.  If you drop anchor, they get mad at you.  If you try to pass someone, they get mad at you.  You can drop anchor offshore and fish; they'll let you do that.  Otherwise, it's like a fishing carousel that runs about 3mph.  

[Darth-Baiter]

@jhoffman  agreed 100%.

 

i just sold my motorcycle.  it got to hairy at times.  it was exhausting being at alert level orange all the time.  

 

but great parallel comparing motorcycles to small craft.  

[dickenscpa]

On 5/12/2023 at 10:26 AM, jhoffman said:

As a guy whos owned multiple boats and still owns a kayak there are certain places and certain times I wouldnt DREAM of taking a kayak. Common sense these days is far from common and getting worse. You gotta run a kayak or small boat like a motorcycle with the mentality that everyone and everything is trying to kill you.

True. I rode Harleys from 1999 until I sold my last one April '21. Cars hit each other all the time and it hurts worse if you're on a bike. I took the beginner rider's course when I got my first bike, and to be honest I only took it for the discount on my insurance. We rode supplied 500cc thumpers and I learned SO much from that course. At the time they also had an intermediate and advanced course. I don't think they offer the intermediate anymore but I learned so much in the beginner I took all three.

 

We were on our own bikes for intermediate and advanced and I rode a big bagger. One thing they taught us was a lot of bikers will say, " I had no choice but to lay her down," and they taught us that wasn't necessarily true. They made us get up to 70mph and lock'em up without going down. You had to do it over and over until you got it.

 

The most important thing was awareness. I got to the point I could be in traffic and pick out the idiot and just know to stay away from them. It carried over into driving a vehicle and on the water. I saw the guy coming in the boat and I knew it wasn't going to be good. I tried to position myself and get away to a certain extent but when they veer toward you, you don't have much of a chance.

 

My son often says his superpower is hindsight, but he realized a few minutes later it didn't help much. LOL! In hindsight I guess I just never dreamed he would come at me like he did. In the future I won't take that for granted.

 

However, I'll drop my scenario from this thread. I kinda feel like I took away from the young lady who lost her life which I feel deep sorrow for her and her family.

[softwateronly]

On 5/10/2023 at 10:49 AM, WIGuide said:

I've only had one actual close call with a kayak on the water as most around here seem pretty good about keeping themselves visible, but there's one guy on a lake I fish a lot who likes to take his kayak out in the evenings right out in front of his place. The problem is, his place is right next to the boat ramp and what compounds the issue is as the sun is setting he completely blends into the silhouette, with his dark colored kayak, his dark clothing, and lack of light. The first time I ever saw him out, I had shut down already, but I was only about 40 yards or so from him and despite paying attention to what I was doing that was the first time I had seen him because the angle changed enough that the background was a little lighter. It could have been closer, but it was more along the lines of "What if.." that made it close. Had he been further down the weedline I may have run him over. Now whenever I fish there in the evening, I shut down way earlier to avoid any issues, but it's because I know there's a chance he's there. For someone who doesn't have that information it could make for a bad situation.

 

As important as it is for boaters to pay attention to avoid any possible situations that could arise, it's equally as important for kayakers to make sure they remain as visible as possible also help avoid these situations. They sit low to the water and can easily get lost in the waves at any distance. 

 

I think it's good to talk about what makes you seen as well, and I think you hit on it.  The brain perceives silhouette first and foremost.  With both a kayak and bass boat sitting low in the water, most objects are sitting right along the horizon.  The background, if not on an inland sea, is likely cluttered and an ideal way to camouflage/hide the silhouette.  Add in bright sun, deep shadow lines, and waves, trolling motor mounts, it can be very difficult for experienced and actively looking boaters to see certain hazards. 

 

I had a somewhat close call last week w/ 2 kayakers last week and I was just idling away from my dock on a glass calm, sunny, late afternoon.  They were crossing my bow for over 45yds before I caught one of their white paddles drawing attention, I was probably only 35yds away when I made a hard turn right.  At 4-5mph, there was plenty of time, but I easily could've used those first 40 yds as an opportunity to get on pad and it could have been tragic.  

 

scott