Reel Bearing Brands/Real World Comparison

[1984isNOW]

Hey all,

 

I was wondering if anybody has any experience ordering Bearings from auction sites or very fast magic carpet sites?

 

Any real world comparison between bearing brands or off brands?

 

Measured comparisons between stock and upgraded bearings or other brands?

 

Mainly I'm thinking most US purchased bearings are built in China, and we just pay for the American company to put their name on it - I'm really leaning towards full ceramic Magic Carpet Express delivery.

 

 

 

[JediAmoeba]

I have bought all sorts of bearings - from the most reputable sites down to questionable sites...I have never seen an improvement that made me go WOW, I need to put these in every reel. To me it's fun and I have all sorts of spacers to make sure all the components line up correctly and are spaced with just the right amount if play.

 

But the only bearings that really matter are the ones in the spool, the others are just meh in a performance upgrade. In fact, a normal flush by taking the bearing retainers off and cleaning them with alcohol and using a high quality oil will give you a pretty decent performance upgrade. Most of the top reel companies but good bearings on their spools.

[FishTank]

5 hours ago, PUTitinYOURmouthFISH said:

Hey all,

 

I was wondering if anybody has any experience ordering Bearings from auction sites or very fast magic carpet sites?

 

Any real world comparison between bearing brands or off brands?

 

Measured comparisons between stock and upgraded bearings or other brands?

 

Mainly I'm thinking most US purchased bearings are built in China, and we just pay for the American company to put their name on it - I'm really leaning towards full ceramic Magic Carpet Express delivery.

 

 

 

What reel are you trying to upgrade? Is this a repair? Depending on the reel,  the factory bearings may be a better choice. Also, it has been my experience that purchasing bearings from a trusted supplier is key to getting the most out of them.

[Jrob78]

I've used spool bearings from all the big bearing companies and I've been disappointed more often than not. I'm usually putting them in higher end reels and I don't feel they make that much of an improvement over clean, (ultra sonic cleaner) properly lubricated stock bearings in most cases.

 

The reels I saw the most improvement were the old green Curado E Series reels, for whatever reason. I still change out bearings sometimes because I like tinkering and it doesn't hurt but I don't normally expect to see a massive difference. 

[1984isNOW]

 @JediAmoeba

thanks , I'm planning just the spool bearings. If you've tried from all kinds of sites and brands and can't advise against Chinese I just may do that.

 

@FishTank

First I will upgrade some old cheap reels to practice and see how it feels. I have an SLX MGL that saw an entire fall outside by the shed last year and I can see it needs a cleaning, no idea what the guts look like but I'm assuming a colonoscopy is in order. Figured I'd upgrade while I'm going in anyway, like taking out the hemeroids.

 

I also got an OG concept Z that either needs it's bushings replaced or brakes greased _ I've never done either but here they might resolve the squealing casts.

 

For kicks an Abu Garcia black max and ultra max and my Lews custom black combo reel.

 

Question for you _ "in your experience" meaning you've tried the Chinese ceramics and find them lacking?

 

   Thanks for sharing @Jrob78 , I can see higher end gear not needing an upgrade, I would certainly hope not anyway haha

[Lead Head]

I have been switching in the hybrid bearings from China recently. Only major performance upgrade I noticed was with bfs spools. I'm doing it because they don't need lube, and I don't mind the noise. It's a experiment to see how long they last without oil. 

 

I will mention, 2 of the 10 I have ordered so far did not spin freely. The other 8 put stock bearings (flushed and oiled with tsi321) to shame from a free spin perspective. Not much of a noticeable difference when casting though. 

[1984isNOW]

24 minutes ago, Lead Head said:

I have been switching in the hybrid bearings from China recently. Only major performance upgrade I noticed was with bfs spools. I'm doing it because they don't need lube, and I don't mind the noise. It's a experiment to see how long they last without oil. 

 

I will mention, 2 of the 10 I have ordered so far did not spin freely. The other 8 put stock bearings (flushed and oiled with tsi321) to shame from a free spin perspective. Not much of a noticeable difference when casting though. 

My understanding is that upgraded bearings are less about increased casting distance and more about a decrease in the power needed for about the same distance, which leads to more controlled casts and greater accuracy.

 

Which is likely why you see the greatest benefit in BFS applications where spool start up speed and smooth/consistent rotations of the bearings can be achieved with a lighter more fluid cast than trying to chuck a lure afap.

 

Have you tried full ceramic?

 

Also I'd imagine that lower quality ss bearings upgraded to full ceramic would have a more discernable improvement on the reel/casting.

 

Edit to add

Thanks for letting me know about the percentage of quality, I'll order a couple extra of each as back up - if they're all good I'm sure they'll find a home eventually.

 

[Lead Head]

No full ceramic. 

[bulldog1935]

The only place full-zirconia bearings are an advantage is in the salt.  I've tried them in spool bearings - they are faster and slicker, but in spool bearings, they also make so much noise, your friends 150' away will talk about them.  

Where I prefer them are in small sizes on handles, LW and, especially, ball-bearing spur gear and idler gear on custom Ambassadeur.  

I'll venture to say I've tried more bearing combinations than anyone else here.  

There's a  noted quality difference between USM high-grade bearings such as Boca, and high-grade JDM bearings such as NMB, versus cheap Chinese bearings.  

However, quality among Chinese bearings is also going to vary - it's a hit and miss gamble.   

I've found Hong-Kong-based Roro bearings to be as good as any made elsewhere.  

 

Silicon-nitride-ball hybrid ceramic bearings (sic SiC) are a noted upgrade in spool bearings vs. all-steel.  Part of this results from decreased rotating mass.  The second is tolerance to little or no lubrication.  You actually slow them down by oiling them, but you do make them quieter.  

 

As far as this statement

14 hours ago, PUTitinYOURmouthFISH said:

My understanding is that upgraded bearings are less about increased casting distance and more about a decrease in the power needed for about the same distance, which leads to more controlled casts and greater accuracy.

you should always read improved cast distance as reduced effort and, thereby, improved accuracy - people who don't read it that way just want to argue.  

Cast distance remains the empirical measurement to compare bearing efficiency.  

[GPtimes2]

I researched and tried orange seal, full ceramic, and cleaning existing bearings. Then I read about Hedgehog Studio air bearings. Do yourself a favor and order one set from them and compare to some others. Chances are you will end up replacing all your spool bearings with them.

[Delaware Valley Tackle]

The deal with bearings is yes, many brands originate from the same sources but counterfeit is problem in the industry. For the few bucks you’ll save a reel or two, the legwork to find cheap and dependable suppliers isn’t worth the effort. 

[FishTank]

16 hours ago, PUTitinYOURmouthFISH said:

 @JediAmoeba

 

 

@FishTank

First I will upgrade some old cheap reels to practice and see how it feels. I have an SLX MGL that saw an entire fall outside by the shed last year and I can see it needs a cleaning, no idea what the guts look like but I'm assuming a colonoscopy is in order. Figured I'd upgrade while I'm going in anyway, like taking out the hemeroids.

 

I also got an OG concept Z that either needs it's bushings replaced or brakes greased _ I've never done either but here they might resolve the squealing casts.

 

For kicks an Abu Garcia black max and ultra max and my Lews custom black combo reel.

 

Question for you _ "in your experience" meaning you've tried the Chinese ceramics and find them lacking?

 

   Thanks for sharing @Jrob78 

 

I ordered some bulk bearings years ago that came in a tube off of ebay and none of them were great and maybe 2 out 10 were totally bad. They shipped directly from China and were about $2 a piece.  They were not worth it. 

 

As far as your SLX goes, if it's been sitting outside and exposed to the weather there is no telling how bad the insides are. My guess is you will have other parts you are going to need besides spool bearings.  I would take the reel apart, clean it and assess what you have going on.  I would get the parts you need directly from Shimano. If all you need are the spool bearings, I would get the bearings for the Antares. I believe they are the same size and would be a good upgrade for your reel. They run about $14 a piece and will last a lifetime if properly taken care of.

 

[JediAmoeba]

1 hour ago, FishTank said:

I ordered some bulk bearings years ago that came in a tube off of ebay and none of them were great and maybe 2 out 10 were totally bad. They shipped directly from China and were about $2 a piece.  They were not worth it.

I have bought these as well and they work fine for your knobs but require some work to get them going - take both retainers off and soak them alcohol, use a fine tooth brush on them and then resoak them for a bit and then spray them with air. They will work great after that; grease or oil after that and install them.

 

I wish they would make some alternative material bushings for reels - there is bushing material that is really good and won't corrode. I would swap out all my worm gear, reel handle and main gear bearings for bushings if they did...

[bulldog1935]

44 minutes ago, JediAmoeba said:

I wish they would make some alternative material bushings for reels - there is bushing material that is really good and won't corrode. I would swap out all my worm gear, reel handle and main gear bearings for bushings if they did...

this is Exactly where MR74CE full zirconia bearings from China plug in at $4/ and $4 to mail.  

They don't need lube and they're Permanent.  

You'd also have to be a cat to hear these tiny things.  

[Zcoker]

I like Boca Bearings. They are down the road from me in Boynton Beach. I've been to their warehouse and it's first rate. Reason I like them is because they carry just about every size bearing imaginable for most all reals...millions of them in stock and at a fair to good price. I can go up to the counter and ask for just about any bearing for the reel that I'm working on and they have it in stock ready to go. The fit for most reels is direct and precise. I've used their ceramic hybrid bearings with good results, mostly for line roller replacements in Stella reels. Talk about smooth! 

[Delaware Valley Tackle]

6 hours ago, FishTank said:

 

I ordered some bulk bearings years ago that came in a tube off of ebay and none of them were great and maybe 2 out 10 were totally bad. They shipped directly from China and were about $2 a piece.  They were not worth it. 

 

As far as your SLX goes, if it's been sitting outside and exposed to the weather there is no telling how bad the insides are. My guess is you will have other parts you are going to need besides spool bearings.  I would take the reel apart, clean it and assess what you have going on.  I would get the parts you need directly from Shimano. If all you need are the spool bearings, I would get the bearings for the Antares. I believe they are the same size and would be a good upgrade for your reel. They run about $14 a piece and will last a lifetime if properly taken care of.

 

After market ABEC 5 ss bearings from a trusted source will be cheaper than OEM bearings and as good or better, but if your ordering parts paying shipping twice might eat into the difference. 

[GRiver]

4 minutes ago, Delaware Valley Tackle said:

After market ABEC 5 ss bearings from a trusted source will be cheaper than OEM bearings

I’m no expert on this but, for what found, a lot stock bearings are unrated….not that stock bearings are bad, just quantity control is lacking. Abec 5 or 7 SS are a big improvement, ceramics are too loud for me. But I’ve hat changing the bearings gave me a quiet, smoother, consistent cast which improved my accuracy. 

[Delaware Valley Tackle]

1 hour ago, GRiver said:

I’m no expert on this but, for what found, a lot stock bearings are unrated….not that stock bearings are bad, just quantity control is lacking. Abec 5 or 7 SS are a big improvement, ceramics are too loud for me. But I’ve hat changing the bearings gave me a quiet, smoother, consistent cast which improved my accuracy. 

Yes, a good quality, SS bearing flushed and lightly oiled is plenty fast in real world scenarios. Bearings can be of ABEC quality but not gone thru the verification process which I suspect is the case with shimanos spool bearings. 

[Hammer 4]

Back in 2009 I had my Shimano Curado E 7 fitted with ABEC 5 bearings, was a fairly big improvemnet over the stock bearins. Smoother and it cast a tad farthure.

[FishTank]

35 minutes ago, Delaware Valley Tackle said:

Yes, a good quality, SS bearing flushed and lightly oiled is plenty fast in real world scenarios. Bearings can be of ABEC quality but not gone thru the verification process which I suspect is the case with shimanos spool bearings. 

 

Could you suggest a quality source? The ones I ordered on ebay were not of good quality, even after being cleaned and oiled but this was quite some time ago. I have since replaced the ones I used on my own reels with Boca's. For the Shimano reels I have worked on, I have ordered from them directly.  Their low end 3x10x4 use to run about $3 a piece. When I phoned in an ordered, Shimano told me their bearings were a minimum of an ABEC 3.  For some reason the stock part bearings always seem better to me than the ones in the reels. 

[ska4fun]

On 4/26/2023 at 5:26 PM, JediAmoeba said:

I have bought all sorts of bearings - from the most reputable sites down to questionable sites...I have never seen an improvement that made me go WOW, I need to put these in every reel. To me it's fun and I have all sorts of spacers to make sure all the components line up correctly and are spaced with just the right amount if play.

 

But the only bearings that really matter are the ones in the spool, the others are just meh in a performance upgrade. In fact, a normal flush by taking the bearing retainers off and cleaning them with alcohol and using a high quality oil will give you a pretty decent performance upgrade. Most of the top reel companies but good bearings on their spools.

Quite normal. Baitcasting doesn't allow us to feel a tangible improvement in casting distance, under bearing upgrades, if the factory ones are decent. You see it marginal in pitching.

 

Braking system is tuned to the factory bearing and its spool spinning capabilities. Bearings upgrades, even more so with hybrid/ceramic ones, will create overspinning and a equivalent overbraking, negating distance gains.

 

For extreme distance casting, think of Daiwa 7HT and related stuff,  the gains are solid, since the long trajectories and advanced braking systems, allow to braking adjustments in the air.

 

A lot of people boasts about bearings upgrades, because a lot of companies are making money over it.

[Delaware Valley Tackle]

12 hours ago, FishTank said:

 

Could you suggest a quality source? The ones I ordered on ebay were not of good quality, even after being cleaned and oiled but this was quite some time ago. I have since replaced the ones I used on my own reels with Boca's. For the Shimano reels I have worked on, I have ordered from them directly.  Their low end 3x10x4 use to run about $3 a piece. When I phoned in an ordered, Shimano told me their bearings were a minimum of an ABEC 3.  For some reason the stock part bearings always seem better to me than the ones in the reels. 

Boca is the big player. I have some here if you want to email me I’ll make a PayPal invoice

[FishTank]

17 minutes ago, Delaware Valley Tackle said:

Boca is the big player. I have some here if you want to email me I’ll make a PayPal invoice

Thanks. I have Boca's ABEC 7s, non orange seals, in a few of my reels. They have been great. 

 

I'm good at the moment. I usually do projects, like upgrades, during the cabin fever season.  I can reach out to you then. I will probably have a reel or two for you as well. ?

[Delaware Valley Tackle]

1 hour ago, FishTank said:

Thanks. I have Boca's ABEC 7s, non orange seals, in a few of my reels. They have been great. 

 

I'm good at the moment. I usually do projects, like upgrades, during the cabin fever season.  I can reach out to you then. I will probably have a reel or two for you as well. ?

Anytime. You know where to find me. 

[1984isNOW]

On 4/27/2023 at 11:42 AM, FishTank said:

 

I ordered some bulk bearings years ago that came in a tube off of ebay and none of them were great and maybe 2 out 10 were totally bad. They shipped directly from China and were about $2 a piece.  They were not worth it. 

 

As far as your SLX goes, if it's been sitting outside and exposed to the weather there is no telling how bad the insides are. My guess is you will have other parts you are going to need besides spool bearings.  I would take the reel apart, clean it and assess what you have going on.  I would get the parts you need directly from Shimano. If all you need are the spool bearings, I would get the bearings for the Antares. I believe they are the same size and would be a good upgrade for your reel. They run about $14 a piece and will last a lifetime if properly taken care of.

 

Maybe I'll try to send it off then, I'd have no idea what I'm looking at to know what needs work.

 

I'll say I'm now curious about those micro bearings. Hard for me to drop money like that seeing how they are cheaper elsewhere with a different name and for all we know made in the same factory - anything made in China can be sold from China for less without the name brand mark up

 

I appreciate all the input yall!

 

If full ceramic are too loud how do hybrids compare in noise and in improved ease of casting?

On 4/26/2023 at 11:10 PM, bulldog1935 said:

The only place full-zirconia bearings are an advantage is in the salt.  I've tried them in spool bearings - they are faster and slicker, but in spool bearings, they also make so much noise, your friends 150' away will talk about them.  

Where I prefer them are in small sizes on handles, LW and, especially, ball-bearing spur gear and idler gear on custom Ambassadeur.  

I'll venture to say I've tried more bearing combinations than anyone else here.  

There's a  noted quality difference between USM high-grade bearings such as Boca, and high-grade JDM bearings such as NMB, versus cheap Chinese bearings.  

However, quality among Chinese bearings is also going to vary - it's a hit and miss gamble.   

I've found Hong-Kong-based Roro bearings to be as good as any made elsewhere.  

 

Silicon-nitride-ball hybrid ceramic bearings (sic SiC) are a noted upgrade in spool bearings vs. all-steel.  Part of this results from decreased rotating mass.  The second is tolerance to little or no lubrication.  You actually slow them down by oiling them, but you do make them quieter.  

 

As far as this statement

you should always read improved cast distance as reduced effort and, thereby, improved accuracy - people who don't read it that way just want to argue.  

Cast distance remains the empirical measurement to compare bearing efficiency.  

 

Thanks for the write up man, how much digging did you do into factory direct from China?