4 VS 8 Strand Braid When Tying FG Leader Knots...???

[DEPS_250]

I like to fish braid to a leader for all of my swimbaits. I am currently using Daiwa J braid x8 grand tied to a 15-25lb mono/fluoro leader with an FG knot.

 

The problem is...I am finding that I am getting a lot of braid slippage when tying the FG knot with the Daiwa J braid x8 grand. Seems to me like the 8 strand braid is too round, too smooth and too soft. I think the roundness, smoothness and softness is causing my braid to slip and is therefore 'not digging/biting' into the mono/fluoro properly in order for the FG knot to work and perform to its maximum potential/strength. 

 

I have tried almost every leader knot there is. I like the FG knot the most. Its the thinnest and does not interfere with the line guide in my reel. I like using Daiwa reels with the T-Wing system and almost every other leader knot that I have tried with 15-25lb test lines, always interferes with the T-Wing system. The FG knot is the only knot that is thin enough to go through the T-Wing system in the heavier lb test lines. 

 

Should I stop using the 8 strand Daiwa J braid and switch over to a 4 strand braid? 4 strand braids are 'known' for having way more abrasion resistance than an 8 strand braid. 4 strand braids are also known for being less round, more stiff and feeling a lot more coarse.

 

Therefore would the stiffness, coarseness and less roundness of a 4 strand braid actually aid/help in letting the braid 'dig/bite' into the mono/fluoro properly and therefore eliminate and/or mitigate the braid from slipping when tying an FG knot? 

[MN Fisher]

You're not winding it tight enough when building the knot would be my first guess.

 

I don't have knot slippage when tying FC, Mono or YZH as leaders to my Sufix 832 with the FG

[FishTank]

I use 8 Strand Varivas Dead or Alive with leader and don't have that issue.  I also use an Albright knot but this on PE 1.5. It's pretty thin compared to most US lines. You would think a heavy line should have better knot strength. 

 

https://www.animatedknots.com/albright-knot

 

[softwateronly]

I'm using 8 strand with, normal for me, fg problems, maybe 8/10 tied correctly the first time.  Check your winds and technique, it will work.  The alberto knot is my on the water, cold fingers knot, when I can't seem to tie the fg.

 

scott

[DEPS_250]

Albertos, Albrights and Uni to Uni knots are not going to work for me. I have already tried them out and they will not fit through my line guide. I like to fish big swimbaits with heavy line. These knots are too big and thick with 15-25lb mono/fluoro and will not pass through the T-Wing system line guide. 

 

I wish Daiwa would make the T-Wing line guide a tad bit bigger for people who like to fish heavier baits and heavier lines using leader knots. Than that way, I might not even have to use the FG knot at all and could just get away with a Uni to Uni knot. 

[Bdnoble84]

I have not noticed a difference between 4 and 8 strand. Its crucial that you take your time on the wraps. The more tight and orderly are, the better the knot will perform.

[DEPS_250]

I could just fish 'very short' leaders (~6 foot-ish) and have my leader knot sit outside in front of my reel right?

 

Than that way, I can fish whatever leader knot I like, even if its thick and bulky. I like tying the Uni to Uni knot the most since its easy but its gets too big and bulky in 20+lb mono/fluoro line sizes.  

[jejenkyns]

Make sure your leader line is a thicker diameter than your braid.

[Bdnoble84]

20 hours ago, DEPS_250 said:

I could just fish 'very short' leaders (~6 foot-ish) and have my leader knot sit outside in front of my reel right?

 

Than that way, I can fish whatever leader knot I like, even if its thick and bulky. I like tying the Uni to Uni knot the most since its easy but its gets too big and bulky in 20+lb mono/fluoro line sizes.  

Try the alberto as well. I think its allittle better than the uni. Its slightly thinner and stronger and quicker than the fg but not as strong or low profile. I will opt for it when retying on the water sometimes. 
 

however, for me if diameter is a concern, fg is absolutely the way to go. It takes practice to master, and i use a lighter on the finish to really make it great. But its worth the trouble. Honestly, once you get the know down its almost as fast as anything else you can tie.

Also, i do not see a big need for tying leaders greater than 6 ft long. Just isnt necessary to me.

[Bankc]

On 4/8/2023 at 1:08 PM, DEPS_250 said:

Albertos, Albrights and Uni to Uni knots are not going to work for me. I have already tried them out and they will not fit through my line guide. I like to fish big swimbaits with heavy line. These knots are too big and thick with 15-25lb mono/fluoro and will not pass through the T-Wing system line guide. 

 

I wish Daiwa would make the T-Wing line guide a tad bit bigger for people who like to fish heavier baits and heavier lines using leader knots. Than that way, I might not even have to use the FG knot at all and could just get away with a Uni to Uni knot. 

If I'm fishing something that's constantly moving, like a swimbait, I don't even mess with a leader.  The only time I find leaders worth the hassle is with slow moving or standing still style finesse baits, where the fish has time to take a look at your line.  A reaction style bait shouldn't need one.  And if you need fluoro or mono for some reason, it's better to fill the whole spool up with it.  

 

As for the FG and 8 strand, it should still hold just as well.  As noted, you're probably not keeping it tight enough while you tie it.  What I do is give it a little cinch after each twisted pair, and pinch the knot between my fingers.  Then when I go to give it the big cinch after wetting the knot at the end, it moves very little, since it's already very tight.  

[Bdnoble84]

5 hours ago, Bankc said:

As for the FG and 8 strand, it should still hold just as well.  As noted, you're probably not keeping it tight enough while you tie it.

I really focus hard on the first few wraps. I pull the braid tight in my teeth, pinch the leader tight in fingers as close to the intersection as possible and focus on really tight overlays.
 

Each time i go around i try to catch the tag end with my off hand, pinching where the lines join together. Then i make another really tight overlay. Pay close attention and make sure every wrap works down the leader. If they do not or start bunching stop and start over. This is where you will get a bulge that causes issues. Once you get a good base you can go quicker.
 

 

[txchaser]

Three things made a difference for me:

 

1) always cinch the first two half hitches very tight; do this before you try to set the knot.

2) if it doesn't catch and start biting, try small pops/jerks instead of a steady pull. Once it starts biting it'll finish.

3) last ditch and seems backwards, but wetting the braid has sometimes helped it bite. 

 

I mostly only run into this issue when using hard leaders and very smooth braid. 

[Bankc]

18 hours ago, Bdnoble84 said:

I really focus hard on the first few wraps. I pull the braid tight in my teeth, pinch the leader tight in fingers as close to the intersection as possible and focus on really tight overlays.
 

Each time i go around i try to catch the tag end with my off hand, pinching where the lines join together. Then i make another really tight overlay. Pay close attention and make sure every wrap works down the leader. If they do not or start bunching stop and start over. This is where you will get a bulge that causes issues. Once you get a good base you can go quicker.
 

 

This sounds exactly like what I do.  Works every time!  Takes a minute, but is foolproof.  

[Bdnoble84]

16 minutes ago, Bankc said:

This sounds exactly like what I do.  Works every time!  Takes a minute, but is foolproof.  

Yes. The finish is very important as well. I do two overhand knots with the leader tag end. Make sure it doesnt cross o to the knot. 5-6 braid tagend overhands around mainline and leader tag end. Again pull tight and make sure nothing overlaps. 3 overhands braid tagend over mainline. Pull really tight each time. If your knot is kinking from the tension, you got sloppy somewhere.

 

i then trim my tag ends leaving only a couple millimeters exposed of each. I take a lighter and melt the tag ends down flush to the know. This is the key to the knot not being able to unravel.

[DEPS_250]

Sorry to revive the thread, I started thinking a lot more and now I am thinking its actually the leader and not the braid that is causing my fg knot to slip. I started practicing my fg knots again a couple days ago and now I am thinking it could be the leader that I am using that is causing my fg knot to slip.

 

I noticed my FG knots tend to slip more with 'stiff' and 'slick' fluorocarbons. The braid did not dig as hard or deep into the fluorocarbon. On the other hand, tying FG knots with a soft and supple copolymer was much better and the fg dug and held much more tightly/stronger around the softer line. 

 

Looks like I should go with the soft and supple lines if I want to tie the FG. What do you guys think? 

[bulldog1935]

that would be Seaguar Blue label leader.  

 

You're going to get my standard Improved Allbright knot answer now.  

This knot is impossible to slip, and tied properly, is almost as skinny as FG, and definitely glides through microguides.  

It works fine with hard fluoro leader.  

The trick to tightening this knot, remember which direction you rolled the braid loops.  Lightly snug all four (standing and tag) ends.  First tighten the braid tag end while rolling the braid loops in the same direction you wrapped them.  Before it's completely tight, take up the leader tag to bury the bend in the loops.  Finish tighten the braid tag (still rolling braid loops), then final tighten by pulling both standing ends.  I finish by wetting the knot with pink-label Zap CA+

[LrgmouthShad]

12 hours ago, DEPS_250 said:

Sorry to revive the thread, I started thinking a lot more and now I am thinking its actually the leader and not the braid that is causing my fg knot to slip. I started practicing my fg knots again a couple days ago and now I am thinking it could be the leader that I am using that is causing my fg knot to slip.

 

I noticed my FG knots tend to slip more with 'stiff' and 'slick' fluorocarbons. The braid did not dig as hard or deep into the fluorocarbon. On the other hand, tying FG knots with a soft and supple copolymer was much better and the fg dug and held much more tightly/stronger around the softer line. 

 

Looks like I should go with the soft and supple lines if I want to tie the FG. What do you guys think? 

I am loyal to the FG knot on my braid to leader spinning setups. It occasionally gives me pains to tie, but most of the time I get it done in about 45sec and it never ever fails me when I tie it correctly, which is just about all of the time. 
 

Couple things on the FG. I agree with your original assessment that a smoother 8 strand is going to be a little more troublesome if you do not cinch each turn tightly. If you cinch each turn properly, you’ll be fine with 8 strand or 4 strand. Another note: the FG works best when the leader material is a bit thicker than the main line. The most trouble I have with the FG is when I’m using a setup like 15lb to 8lb. Again, I’m fine if I cinch everything tight enough, but the smoother the braid and the smaller the leader, the more careful I have to be. Check every FG knot you tie. Pull it hard. If there is any slippage, any at all, even a little, retie 

[Motoboss]

GT Knot

 

Easy, fast and very very strong.

[Team9nine]

21 minutes ago, Motoboss said:

GT Knot

 

Easy, fast and very very strong.

 

FYI, FWIW: That's the "bogus" version of the GT knot. Not sure what it's really called, but supposedly pretty weak compared to an FG and others based on this SaltStrong analysis a couple years back. 

 

"Fake" GT knot

[MN Fisher]

14 minutes ago, Team9nine said:

 

FYI, FWIW: That's the "bogus" version of the GT knot. Not sure what it's really called, but supposedly pretty weak compared to an FG and others based on this SaltStrong analysis a couple years back. 

 

"Fake" GT knot

Here, Luke actually tests the 'popular' GT knot vs a FG

Like he says - avoid the GT. Albright, Alberto, Twin-Uni he says are all better...and the FG still wins overall.

[Motoboss]

1 hour ago, Team9nine said:

 

FYI, FWIW: That's the "bogus" version of the GT knot. Not sure what it's really called, but supposedly pretty weak compared to an FG and others based on this SaltStrong analysis a couple years back. 

 

"Fake" GT knot

There’s a video for every side of any topic nowadays!

I’ll guarantee it’s not weak, at least the version I use. Last week I pulled up a tree stump when I hooked a fluke on it and trying to break the leader off, 15lb fluro tied to 20lb braid. It would not break! I’m talking a distance of 6ft with a direct straight pull. Had to go back and cut it off. It plain out works and easy to tie and extremely small . I will say I use 3 turns on the leader then eight wraps with the braid.

Tie it with braid and fluor and see if you can break the knot before cutting your fingers off! I bet the hook knot will break before the uni knot will.

 

THIS is the version I use, just a little different, so not the true FG knot.
Look at the title ……IGFA tested…..just say’n

[Team9nine]

2 hours ago, Motoboss said:

 

THIS is the version I use, just a little different, so not the true FG knot.
Look at the title ……IGFA tested…..just say’n

If it works for you, great  The IGFA rated claim is false as explained in the SaltStrong video. I only use braid/leader on my finesse spinning stuff, but I’ll stick with FG and Alberto. I’m comfortable tying both at this point.

[Motoboss]

Like I said, options for everyone. Always do what is more confident. 

[detroit1]

No need to change if it's working for you.