Improved/Modified Double San Diego Jam for grass and algae

[txchaser]

Maybe just new to me, but I though it was interesting, someone I fished with tied their double SDJ a little different and it made a big difference in our grassy lakes. Basically just skipping step 4 in this diagram, so you only end up with one tag end facing up/forward, and the two tags part down by the bait and not passed through the loop. 

 

Anyone fished this for any length of time? If so, is it a little weaker or a lot? Seemed to work well last weekend, and I had three big fish with no issue at all, and no apparent slipping of the bottom two tag ends, and it did much better in the really shallow grassy/snotty water I was in.

 

 

 

 

 

[Hammer 4]

As per your diagram, I've always tied mine that way, even in grass and algy.

[Jig Man]

I think that makes it a Pitzen knot.

[Darth-Baiter]

I know a guy that puts a bobber stop in front the knot so it comes thru grass easier.  protects the tag end(s)

[galyonj]

33 minutes ago, Darth-Baiter said:

I know a guy that puts a bobber stop in front the knot so it comes thru grass easier.  protects the tag end(s)

 

That's one of the reasons I switched to a trilene knot a while back for everything. I don't like the tag end picking up hitchhikers.

[Team9nine]

You’ve kind of lost me, but different knot names add to the confusion. Seems some refer to a “double” SDJ as single line twice through the eye, then a normal tie, while others mean doubled line through  the entire knot as diagrammed.

 

If you skip step 4 and just run through the hole created near the eye, you’ve basically just tied a reverse clinch knot, which isn’t appealing to me.

 

If you skip the eye opening and just run straight through the top loop created, you’ve tied a Pitzen - a pretty decent knot. 
 

Based on what you described above, how do you end up with any tag ends going forward? Seems like there would just be the two near the bottom. The one thing you learn is that if your equipment is properly set up and adjusted, all knots work great - even “weaker” ones.

[NorthernBasser]

2 hours ago, galyonj said:

 

That's one of the reasons I switched to a trilene knot a while back for everything. I don't like the tag end picking up hitchhikers.

I'm surprised more people don't use this knot. One of the easiest knots to tie. Has never failed on me. And like you said, the tag end doesn't give you any issues. I used to use Sand Diego Jam for my fluoro but it isn't necessary. I use the Trilene Knot on everything minus braid (Palomar) and connection knots, obviously. Just a great knot. 

[galyonj]

1 minute ago, NorthernBasser said:

I'm surprised more people don't use this knot. One of the easiest knots to tie. Has never failed on me. And like you said, the tag end doesn't give you any issues. I used to use Sand Diego Jam for my fluoro but it isn't necessary. I use the Trilene Knot on everything minus braid (Palomar) and connection knots, obviously. Just a great knot. 

 

Yeah, it's my favorite terminal knot. I've never had it pull out, I've never had it break when I didn't expect to break it.

[txchaser]

Looks like I could have been more clear - when I say double SDJ I mean I double the entire line then tie the SDJ as normal. So I end up with three tag ends facing forward. Or in this case, doing all that but skipping the top-most loop, so two of the tag ends stay down by the hook/bait.

 

I haven't figured out how to get a bobber stop to protect those tags. 

 

On 4/7/2023 at 10:31 AM, Team9nine said:

you’ve basically just tied a reverse clinch knot, which isn’t appealing to me.

 

Ok found some reverse clinch videos and yes it does appear to be that. Tell me more, vs a standard double-line SDJ? Or even reverse clinch vs regular sdj? Does the final tag end(s) going through the top loop add more strength or reduce the slippage possiblity? 

 

I'm definitely not attached to this, I just had to try something different that was going to be good on flouro. 

 

 

[softwateronly]

This might not apply to algae or triple tag ends, but counterintuitively a longer tag has held less weeds than a short, stout tag end for me.  

 

scott

[Team9nine]

10 hours ago, txchaser said:

 

 

Ok found some reverse clinch videos and yes it does appear to be that. Tell me more, vs a standard double-line SDJ? Or even reverse clinch vs regular sdj? Does the final tag end(s) going through the top loop add more strength or reduce the slippage possiblity?

Don’t have much specific knot data on a lot of these. In general, double line knots are almost always stronger than single line knots, but the tradeoff is their bulk. One could argue going back up through the top loop strengthens knots like the clinch (vs. the improved clinch), which is similar to your situation (reverse clinch vs. SDJ). I’ve also seen strong support/data for the strength of double-line clinch knots (DLCK), double line uni, and FnF knot (single line, twice through the eye). In your case, you’re trying to solve for a specific problem, so solving that might be more important than absolute strength. Every knot out there is “strong enough” if the proper setup and drag is used ?

[knotguy]

I've been studying knots in general many years. San Diego Jam is one of the most secure, as is the trilene. I put an extra round turn through the eye of the hook, makes it more effort to tighten the knot, but adds strength.

[txchaser]

So after fishing this SDJ minus the last step for a year now, I haven't had any problems with it. I only use it when there's slop or stringy weeds likely to get caught on the forward tag ends, but it's doing what I hoped it would do.

Generally I'm fishing in that kind of stuff on heavier (17-20lb) line so I've got some slack to play with especially if I run the drag on the light side of correct, which I usually do.