When fishing extremely tiny creeks/streams, do you find an ultralight setup to be more ideal?

[Ohioguy25]

I typically have three types of water I fish:

 

Small-medium sized rivers (50-75 yards across & 4-6’ deep,) small rivers/creeks (narrow and windy but still navigable by kayaks/canoes) and true creeks (inches deep with the occasional 1-2’ hole.)

 

The brushy creeks I am describing are so shallow you can walk across them in most places.  For the middle category, smaller rivers I use a 6’3” MLXF Legend Walleye which seems to be a pretty perfect fit.  

However, I’m wondering if this is too much rod for the little creek fish in the smaller ones which rarely get over 10-12” long and if a shorter UL setup might be more fun. What do you use in these little streams?

[bulldog1935]

L to UL finesse rods are pretty perfect for small headwaters creeks. 5-1/2' down to as short as 3'8"

This Smith Dagger Stream telescopes down to 17" and can carry it in a bike bag to fish county road crossings where you're not allowed to park a car.  

The little Ambassadeur is raced out, and the combo fishes 1/16 to 1/4 oz.  

Short glass rods will let you fish heavier lures.  One place you might want to look is Graywolf rods, who just rolled a batch of blanks.  

This is 5' MM Bright River Concorde from JP.  

This is a great choice for kayak, keeping a larger fish from going under the boat.  

[KP Duty]

Really depends on the creek and current you are dealing with.  I routinely fish spring creek here in NE Oklahoma, and I wouldn't go below a ML power unless the creek is low with no current.  Even 10-12" bass in this creek pull hard and head for whatever isolated piece of cover they see.

[Ohioguy25]

52 minutes ago, KP Duty said:

Really depends on the creek and current you are dealing with.  I routinely fish spring creek here in NE Oklahoma, and I wouldn't go below a ML power unless the creek is low with no current.  Even 10-12" bass in this creek pull hard and head for whatever isolated piece of cover they see.

Yeah, so you stick with a 6-6.5’ ML?

[Tatulatard]

I would use an ul stream rod in either spinning or casting.  2 pc so I can back pack it in.  

[KP Duty]

24 minutes ago, Ohioguy25 said:

Yeah, so you stick with a 6-6.5’ ML?

Yes.  I usually use texas rigged finesse worms, so there is also the hookset to contend with.  If walking the bank, you may need to drag the fish to you as well.  I know dudes use UL's all the time...I'm just not looking for a challenge.  

[Ohioguy25]

26 minutes ago, KP Duty said:

Yes.  I usually use texas rigged finesse worms, so there is also the hookset to contend with.  If walking the bank, you may need to drag the fish to you as well.  I know dudes use UL's all the time...I'm just not looking for a challenge.  

What about light?

[Deleted account]

Most of the time yes, but there are some rare times where I want a bit more oomph.

[WRB]

Depending on how difficult it is to reach the smaller creeks, what you have works for bass. A pack rod is easier to carry and any “trout” spinning rod or light fast bass rod about 5 1/2’ works good.

California has hundreds of small trout streams in the Sierra Neveda ( High Sierra) mountain range that runs 430 miles long back packing is a big sport.

Lots of trout rods available in a wide price range. 
I would also consider a 750 size spinning reel.

 

[thunderblack]

I'd go after the St. Croix 6'-4" Light trout rod that just came out. 2 piece and looks sweet. I hope to pick up this model soon. 

[ATA]

Thats where I do BFS fishing only, Same setup as @bulldog1935

But a ML or L combo with 6lb test will do the job as well.

[Ohioguy25]

2 hours ago, ATA said:

Thats where I do BFS fishing only, Same setup as @bulldog1935

But a ML or L combo with 6lb test will do the job as well.

Is there any situation where light would be too little?

2 hours ago, thunderblack said:

I'd go after the St. Croix 6'-4" Light trout rod that just came out. 2 piece and looks sweet. I hope to pick up this model soon. 

Why can’t I seem to find a light rod with an XF tip? Do I not want that? I’m trying to make it a do it all creeking rod, with the XF tip for finesse sensitivity.

[ATA]

1 hour ago, Ohioguy25 said:

Is there any situation where light would be too little?

4 hours ago, thunderblack said:

there is, Like when the current is fast and you have bigger fish to catch and so and so... ML with 6lb test fluro is the least for me.

[bulldog1935]

I've landed 4-lb smallmouth on 6' 3-wt fly rod, which is lighter than any UL finesse casting rod.  As a rule, even where you find rare big bass in headwaters creeks, they're eating nickel-size crayfish and dime size minnows, so if you're not using finesse tackle, you should probably be using a mid-length, mid-weight glass flyrod.  A big bass in a still pool is not going to live with forage-size bluegill - he already et em, and even the big bluegill will be spooky.  

You also won't find a largemouth in fast current - that's not their natural niche - that's where you'll find spotted bass.

The point - you're unlikely to find big bass in headwaters creeks, and you'll catch more of the fish your targeting fishing finesse lures.  

The guys who really know how to use the current against you are red-ears.  

[Ohioguy25]

6 hours ago, bulldog1935 said:

I've landed 4-lb smallmouth on 6' 3-wt fly rod, which is lighter than any UL finesse casting rod.  As a rule, even where you find rare big bass in headwaters creeks, they're eating nickel-size crayfish and dime size minnows, so if you're not using finesse tackle, you should probably be using a mid-length, mid-weight glass flyrod.  A big bass in a still pool is not going to live with forage-size bluegill - he already et em, and even the big bluegill will be spooky.  

You also won't find a largemouth in fast current - that's not their natural niche - that's where you'll find spotted bass.

The point - you're unlikely to find big bass in headwaters creeks, and you'll catch more of the fish your targeting fishing finesse lures.  

The guys who really know how to use the current against you are red-ears.  

So you would go light or ultralight?

[bulldog1935]

Go by weight you want to throw, 1 to 7 g or 2 to 10 g.  

My Smith UL lands everything I want to catch, but the 5-pc telescoping configuration gives it a faster taper and powerful butt.  

Before I bought the Smith, I also bought a Tailwalk 55L/C rated 2 to 7 g - I like the Smith better, and it fishes full range 1/16 - 1/4 oz very well.  

The guy who really has a quiver of these rods in varied lengths, MOC and taper is @redmeansdistortion Maybe he'll show up.  

 

My small-water kayak rods are 5' to 6', ML and MM glass, and MH graphite.  The ML glass will fish 3 to 4 g really well.  MH graphite is a veggie frogger.  

[redmeansdistortion]

5 hours ago, bulldog1935 said:

Go by weight you want to throw, 1 to 7 g or 2 to 10 g.  

 

This right here. 

 

@Ohioguy25, fishing creeks can be a challenge, but it's a fun challenge.  Your typical UL parabolic blank generally isn't going to be of much use in a tiny creek.  In the creeks, there is a lot of cover for the fish, and something with backbone is needed to keep them out of the wood.  A progressive taper should be used since it will have the backbone required to turn fish whether you're fishing a L or UL.  I prefer something under 5'6" for this type of fishing, they are much easier to cast in the confines of brush and trees giving you more choices for casting targets.  Another reason short rods rule for creeks; one-handed casting.  Casting with one hand gives you greater range of motion which translates to better accuracy, plus it opens the door to other techniques like flip casting, backhand casting, and spiral casting which really shine in close quarters.  Those techniques have very little back cast involved, so you're loading the tip in a very short distance but still able to cast far upstream if need be. 

 

There are a lot of options out there.  Many like to think of the trout rods as being like a fairy wand, but that couldn't be further from the truth.  Some of them have tremendous backbone in spite of their small stature.  They are purpose built tools just like bass rods.  Some of these are made specifically for cherry salmon and migratory rainbow, both of which attain good size and weight, and also known for being fierce fighters.  In your shoes, I'd look at a Major Craft Finetail 5' L 2-10g, it'll do exact what you need and have plenty of beef down low for even bigger fish if you so choose.

[Ohioguy25]

10 hours ago, redmeansdistortion said:

This right here. 

 

@Ohioguy25, fishing creeks can be a challenge, but it's a fun challenge.  Your typical UL parabolic blank generally isn't going to be of much use in a tiny creek.  In the creeks, there is a lot of cover for the fish, and something with backbone is needed to keep them out of the wood.  A progressive taper should be used since it will have the backbone required to turn fish whether you're fishing a L or UL.  I prefer something under 5'6" for this type of fishing, they are much easier to cast in the confines of brush and trees giving you more choices for casting targets.  Another reason short rods rule for creeks; one-handed casting.  Casting with one hand gives you greater range of motion which translates to better accuracy, plus it opens the door to other techniques like flip casting, backhand casting, and spiral casting which really shine in close quarters.  Those techniques have very little back cast involved, so you're loading the tip in a very short distance but still able to cast far upstream if need be. 

 

There are a lot of options out there.  Many like to think of the trout rods as being like a fairy wand, but that couldn't be further from the truth.  Some of them have tremendous backbone in spite of their small stature.  They are purpose built tools just like bass rods.  Some of these are made specifically for cherry salmon and migratory rainbow, both of which attain good size and weight, and also known for being fierce fighters.  In your shoes, I'd look at a Major Craft Finetail 5' L 2-10g, it'll do exact what you need and have plenty of beef down low for even bigger fish if you so choose.

Thank you for the informative response, I’ll check it out! You recommend pairing with the Miravel or Nasci 1000?

[Ohioguy25]

11 hours ago, redmeansdistortion said:

This right here. 

 

@Ohioguy25, fishing creeks can be a challenge, but it's a fun challenge.  Your typical UL parabolic blank generally isn't going to be of much use in a tiny creek.  In the creeks, there is a lot of cover for the fish, and something with backbone is needed to keep them out of the wood.  A progressive taper should be used since it will have the backbone required to turn fish whether you're fishing a L or UL.  I prefer something under 5'6" for this type of fishing, they are much easier to cast in the confines of brush and trees giving you more choices for casting targets.  Another reason short rods rule for creeks; one-handed casting.  Casting with one hand gives you greater range of motion which translates to better accuracy, plus it opens the door to other techniques like flip casting, backhand casting, and spiral casting which really shine in close quarters.  Those techniques have very little back cast involved, so you're loading the tip in a very short distance but still able to cast far upstream if need be. 

 

There are a lot of options out there.  Many like to think of the trout rods as being like a fairy wand, but that couldn't be further from the truth.  Some of them have tremendous backbone in spite of their small stature.  They are purpose built tools just like bass rods.  Some of these are made specifically for cherry salmon and migratory rainbow, both of which attain good size and weight, and also known for being fierce fighters.  In your shoes, I'd look at a Major Craft Finetail 5' L 2-10g, it'll do exact what you need and have plenty of beef down low for even bigger fish if you so choose.

I can’t seem to find the Major Craft, any chance you could link me? I’m a pretty big fan of St Croix, would a 6’ LF Avid  possibly be a viable alternative?

 

 

[bulldog1935]

This is a stream rod

https://www.digitaka.com/item/29/6/6/4560350821749

 

Asian Portal has stock on ebay.  

 

Better price on ebay - I've used this vendor before.  

 

Plat has the casting model in stock, if you're interested in adding a BFS reel.  

 

Guess this thing isn't on.  

[Ohioguy25]

2 hours ago, bulldog1935 said:

This is a stream rod

https://www.digitaka.com/item/29/6/6/4560350821749

 

Asian Portal has stock on ebay.  

 

Better price on ebay - I've used this vendor before.  

 

Plat has the casting model in stock, if you're interested in adding a BFS reel.  

 

Thanks!

[WIGuide]

Personally I'd prefer a light power rod somewhere in the 6'+ range. As much as I like UL's for panfishing with live bait, I feel like if you're throwing some sort of artificial bait they lack the power to actually impart action on the bait and that's where the light power seem much better. 

[Ohioguy25]

52 minutes ago, WIGuide said:

Personally I'd prefer a light power rod somewhere in the 6'+ range. As much as I like UL's for panfishing with live bait, I feel like if you're throwing some sort of artificial bait they lack the power to actually impart action on the bait and that's where the light power seem much better. 

Yeah I’m looking at the St Croix Avid 6’ LF. Prob a decent fit?

[Ohioguy25]

16 hours ago, redmeansdistortion said:

This right here. 

 

@Ohioguy25, fishing creeks can be a challenge, but it's a fun challenge.  Your typical UL parabolic blank generally isn't going to be of much use in a tiny creek.  In the creeks, there is a lot of cover for the fish, and something with backbone is needed to keep them out of the wood.  A progressive taper should be used since it will have the backbone required to turn fish whether you're fishing a L or UL.  I prefer something under 5'6" for this type of fishing, they are much easier to cast in the confines of brush and trees giving you more choices for casting targets.  Another reason short rods rule for creeks; one-handed casting.  Casting with one hand gives you greater range of motion which translates to better accuracy, plus it opens the door to other techniques like flip casting, backhand casting, and spiral casting which really shine in close quarters.  Those techniques have very little back cast involved, so you're loading the tip in a very short distance but still able to cast far upstream if need be. 

 

There are a lot of options out there.  Many like to think of the trout rods as being like a fairy wand, but that couldn't be further from the truth.  Some of them have tremendous backbone in spite of their small stature.  They are purpose built tools just like bass rods.  Some of these are made specifically for cherry salmon and migratory rainbow, both of which attain good size and weight, and also known for being fierce fighters.  In your shoes, I'd look at a Major Craft Finetail 5' L 2-10g, it'll do exact what you need and have plenty of beef down low for even bigger fish if you so choose.

Do I lose much casting accuracy with a 6’ vs a 5-5’6”? I sort of want to be able to make semi-long casts when the water is low and creek fish are spooky.

[WIGuide]

1 hour ago, Ohioguy25 said:

Yeah I’m looking at the St Croix Avid 6’ LF. Prob a decent fit?

I think it would work pretty well. I had an older St. Croix Panfish 6'4" L/F that I loved using for stuff like that.