Lithium Batteries ??????

[CincyGus]

12 hours ago, HenryPF said:

I have to replace my agms in 2-5 years. Ill go lithium trolling/electornics with an AGM for starting. But until someone absolutely proves to me that Dakota, Battleborn, Ionic batteries are SO much better than the cheapo Amazon ones, I am going that route. The argument of "Customer Service" is pointless. Garmin and PowerPole have great customer service, but unless you need it, the point is moot. Your Ionic or whoever battery goes out during a tournament? You sure ain't getting one that day or the next.

 

The price of the Top Tier batteries are twice as expensive as anything else out there. I could replace my brand new lithiums in 5 years, but another set, and still come out ahead due to their pricing and 10 year warranty.

 

Bluetooth? Yeah it sounds nice but I can buy a $30 Wyze Cam with a 12v to USB converter and point it at my battery chargers. I don't the worth of $75+ per battery if I want to see it on the phone.

 

 "The argument of "Customer Service" is pointless....but unless you need it, the point is moot."

 

The point of buying something expensive from someone with great customer service is in CASE YOU NEED IT! If it's not worth it to you to protect a large investment to pay a little more, that's a personal decision but it's insurance as far as I'm concerned. Buy your cheap battery at amazon from someone in china that doesn't even have contact information. Hope there's no problem with it. If I have a problem, I'm getting a replacement or getting it repaired. AND I'm continuing to fish the tournament, without even coming off the water, because I can drop down to a 24v TM because I was smart enough to buy a Garmin Force.

 

ICONIC 12v-50ah batteries are currently $349 on sale which is what I paid for mine a month ago. Walmart's cheapest AGM 12v-100ah (which will give you approximately the same amount of run time) are $229 on sale. So there is a 50% difference, not 100%. And with the lithium, I get full strength the entire day, not dwindling power levels on a windy day that I have to have my TM maxed out in the afternoon to move the same amount I did at 50% level in the morning when they were fully charged. So you pay $229 every 2-5 years and tell people your getting off cheaper than I am at $349 per 10-11 years? You're using fuzzy math.

 

 

 

[WIGuide]

52 minutes ago, Siebert Outdoors said:

Thats a rough estimate but I do not have a power pole charge.  Straight battery's.  The Ghost TM uses very little juice compared to motors that are brushed.

That they do, I absolutely love my ghost! I haven't looked into lithium's too hard, but it seems like a lot of the videos I've seen are pro's talking about how little they've drained over the course of a day, but they all seem to have the charge too. Wasn't sure if the 50 ah would be enough without it, but it sounds like they definitely are. 

[gim]

3 hours ago, CincyGus said:

ICONIC 12v-50ah batteries are currently $349 on sale which is what I paid for mine a month ago.

That’s actually pretty reasonable. Looks like they may be slowly coming down in price.

 

Something else not mentioned yet is when you buy batteries online, and then have an issue, I assume you have to ship them back? I would prefer to buy mine in person locally and then simply bring them in if there’s an issue. Shipping batteries seems time consuming and expensive.

[MN Fisher]

That's why I'm sticking with Mighty Max when I upgrade - Lowes and Home Depot both have 'ship to store' for MM batteries....have a problem, take it back there.

[Siebert Outdoors]

3 hours ago, WIGuide said:

That they do, I absolutely love my ghost! I haven't looked into lithium's too hard, but it seems like a lot of the videos I've seen are pro's talking about how little they've drained over the course of a day, but they all seem to have the charge too. Wasn't sure if the 50 ah would be enough without it, but it sounds like they definitely are. 

 

I'm fishing a Tournament on LOZ this weekend.  It will be the true test for them.  I've fished Lake St Clair in the wind and current last year.  If I remember correctly after the day I was down to about 87%.  Remind me monday and I'll let you know how low they got and the conditions.  I'm guessing since I will be using a lot of motor I'll hit about 50-60% in the roughly 8 hrs.

[MN Fisher]

10 minutes ago, gimruis said:

I would prefer to buy mine in person locally and then simply bring them in if there’s an issue.

Well Lowes doesn't have the LiFePo4 from MM....BUT

https://www.homedepot.com/b/Electrical-Batteries/MIGHTY-MAX-BATTERY/N-5yc1vZc28mZojv

[GaryH]

34 minutes ago, gimruis said:

That’s actually pretty reasonable. Looks like they may be slowly coming down in price.

 

Something else not mentioned yet is when you buy batteries online, and then have an issue, I assume you have to ship them back? I would prefer to buy mine in person locally and then simply bring them in if there’s an issue. Shipping batteries seems time consuming and expensive.

Come on bud… you need to come over to the dark side ???

[gim]

On 4/2/2023 at 4:41 PM, wdp said:

This & I’ll take it a step further. By my logic & reasoning, if the Li battery I bought for $300 has twice the lifetime as a traditional Lead acid battery that costs $150, then the cost is a wash.

I don’t think lithium batteries cost only twice as much. They are more like 3 times as much as a standard battery. If you’ve found a $300 lithium battery, we’d like to know about it. Everything I’ve seen is quite a bit more.

 

So simple math says that if your paying three times as much, you should expect to get three times the lifespan. If you get 3 full seasons out of a standard battery, you should get 9 years out of a lithium one. In theory, of course.

[WRB]

Take a look at VMax Tank Deep Cycle Marine Li-Iron 12V batteries. LFP22-1255 (55 AH) $275, LFP24-1265 (65AH) $300.

Tom

[Dangerfield]

I went down the rabbit whole looking for a good-long lasting Lithium battery for my FF. Don't be fooled by Li-Ion, they're oddly priced close to LiFePo4 batteries but do not maintain consistent voltage like the latter and are less prone to combustion and thermal runaway.

[gim]

Anyone have any experience with the Tracker Lithium batteries from Bass Pro and Cabela's?

[MN Fisher]

@gimruis - look for reviews on Relion - Trackers are just relabeled Relions.

[immortl]

On 5/3/2023 at 11:13 PM, HenryPF said:

<snip>

 

Bluetooth? Yeah it sounds nice but I can buy a $30 Wyze Cam with a 12v to USB converter and point it at my battery chargers. I don't the worth of $75+ per battery if I want to see it on the phone.

Eh, with that $30 you can actually buy a bluetooth capable shunt to add to your batteries, traditional or LiFePO4 Ought to give you most of the same info as the built in deals I think, minus maybe the cycles, not sure.

[Bankc]

Check out Will Prowse Solar's YouTube channel.  He has lots of tear downs and reviews of off brand lithium batteries.  Some even have long term reviews, which don't just rely on his personal experience over the long term, but the experience of his followers.  

Now, considering a 100Ah 12v battery in lead acid will run you a minimum of $150, and a 100Ah 12v battery LiFePo4 battery on the internet can be had for around $350-400, it's almost a no-brainer.  The average charge and discharge cycles a LiFePo4 can handle are supposed to be between 1000-3000, or 9 years.  A lead acid is around 300-1000 and 3 years. So that LiFePo4 should have about TRIPLE the lifespan, making up for the price difference right there. 

 

AND, a LiFePo4 battery can be drained between 80-90% of their capacity without doing significant damage, meaning you almost get double the usable power in the same size package (that weighs about 80% less).  So it's almost not fair to compare a 100Ah lead acid battery with a 100Ah LiFePo4 battery.  It's probably more fair to compare a 100Ah lead acid battery with a 60Ah LiFePo4 battery, since both yield around 50Ah of usable charge.  

 

In other words, we've crossed the threshold where lead acid batteries are actually more expensive to own over the long term.  That's what the simple math says now.  

[gim]

Not quite.  I get more than 3 years out of my lead acid batteries.  I got 4.5 out of my deep cycles for my bow mount and a whopping 6 seasons out of my original cranking one.  I don't pay $150 for them either.  Its about $100 because I get a trade in and an employee discount through a relative.

 

Additionally, I don't fish for 10 hours at time either.  My outings are about 4 hours in time length, so the daily longevity thing is a moot point for me.

 

I'd very likely have to also invest into a two new chargers as well.  I would have to check both my on-board chargers to confirm this.

 

The only major advantage for someone like me would be the weight reduction.

[Kirtley Howe]

What you say is very true. But if you don't have the budget to buy the lithium battery, it really doesn't matter. As an article I read put it....Good shoes will always last a lot longer than cheap shoes, so they actually are the "cheap" shoe. Yeah, but good quality shoes go for $60-$100 or more, and cheap shoes can be bought for $20.00. If I am barefoot right now and need shoes, and all I have to spend is $20.00, guess what shoes I am buying?

[gim]

I could go out and buy some today if I wanted to.  The budget isn't the issue.  My issue is that there's nothing wrong with my current batteries so if its not broken I'm not going through the process of trying to fix it.

 

When the time comes for replacement, I will consider it.  Now is not that time.

[Bankc]

Yeah.  While lithium batteries are typically more cost effective in the long run (though the cost of a new charger will push back the break-even point), they're not cost effective if you're replacing perfectly fine batteries before their lifespan is up. 

 

But there will come a day in the not-too-distant future where these lead acid batteries won't be available.  Just look at the old zinc carbon (original AA, C, D cell batteries) and zinc chloride (Heavy Duty) batteries.  Once the zinc manganese dioxide batteries came out (our modern day alkaline) the old batteries gradually went away because it made little sense for manufacturers to maintain the equipment that made them.   It's already happening to gel cell batteries.  AGM and lead acid won't be too far behind.  Maybe 10 more years?  

[Johnbt]

I suppose that depends on whether or not the U.S. can get enough lithium from overseas. A reliable supply.

 

Top 9 Lithium-producing Countries (Updated 2023)

• Chile. Mine production: 39,000 MT. ...
• China. Mine production: 19,000 MT. ...
• Argentina. Mine production: 6,200 MT. ...
• Brazil. Mine production: 2,200 MT. ...
• Zimbabwe. Mine production: 800 MT. ...
• Portugal. Mine production: 600 MT. ...
• Canada. Mine production: 500 MT. ...
• United States. Mine production: withheld.

https://investingnews.com/daily/resource-investing/battery-metals-investing/lithium-investing/lithium-production-by-country/

 

[Siebert Outdoors]

This is from today. Running graphs and at2 on the 125.   Then the 50’s ran the ghost a lot today and wind was pretty strong. Roughly 15 mph or more. We fished from about 9-4

[WRB]

You forgot #1 Austria 61,000MT Lithium 

Batteries also require cobalt being mined in Africa Congo region by child slave labor*.

Tom

*Cobalt Red, read it!

 

[wdp]

On 5/4/2023 at 9:32 PM, gimruis said:

I don’t think lithium batteries cost only twice as much. They are more like 3 times as much as a standard battery. If you’ve found a $300 lithium battery, we’d like to know about it. Everything I’ve seen is quite a bit more.

 

So simple math says that if your paying three times as much, you should expect to get three times the lifespan. If you get 3 full seasons out of a standard battery, you should get 9 years out of a lithium one. In theory, of course.

When I bought this battery at beginning of year, it was only $300. It’s gone up to $350 now. Last lead acid battery I looked at while in Academy Sports was $150. 
 

https://www.amazon.com/LiFePO4-Battery-Perfect-Applications-Warranty/dp/B084DB36KW/ref=mp_s_a_1_3?crid=202ZWL4666GOC&keywords=li+time+battery+12v+100ah&qid=1683430301&sprefix=li+time+%2Caps%2C112&sr=8-3

[Johnbt]

Is Austria's Wofsberg Project even running yet?

 

3/8/23 " lithium developer European Lithium (ASX: EUR) (OTC: EULIF) announced the results of its definitive feasibility study (DFS) for the company's wholly owned Wolfsberg lithium project, located in Austria."

 

www.kitco.com/news/2023-03-08/European-Lithium-announces-robust-DFS-results-for-its-Wolfsberg-project-in-Austria-with-NPV-of-1-5B.html

 

I know there are Austrian companies involved in lithium production in Australia and other countries as well as the other way around.

 

Then there's this 1/13/23 article   www.argusmedia.com/en/news/2409190-australias-european-lithium-eyes-lioh-plant-in-austria

 

"Australian lithium producer European Lithium on 13 January signed a non-binding agreement with Saudi Arabian asset manager Obeikan Investment to build and operate a lithium hydroxide facility at its Wolfsberg lithium project in Austria."

 

 

 

 

[casts_by_fly]

On 5/5/2023 at 10:38 PM, Siebert Outdoors said:

This is from today. Running graphs and at2 on the 125.   Then the 50’s ran the ghost a lot today and wind was pretty strong. Roughly 15 mph or more. We fished from about 9-4

that’s about what I would expect on the house battery. You ran down 50 ah is 7 hours. That about 7 amps drawn. A 9” graph draws about 2-2.5. Live imaging about the same. So 2 9” plus at2 should be about 7-7.5 amps.

 

that’s incredible on the ghost though. That’s 12 ah drawn at 36v. That would be 36 ah on 12v equivalent that’s next to nothing for a full day.

[gim]

I just saw a segment of 60 minutes CBS on this. An area just east of the Salton Sea in Southern California is loaded with lithium mineral rich deposits. There is more than half of the worlds current known supply in the ground there. Several companies are currently in the process of setting up mining operations using clean geothermal energy that will extract it for commercial use by 2025.