When casting heavy (1-3 oz) baits over head, will a stiffer/higher powered rod alleviate more of the strain on your shoulder than a more moderate rod?

[Ohioguy25]

I’ve found that repeatedly casting these heftier baits (smaller swimbaits and glides) can be taxing on your joints.  I’ve heard some say that the parabolic bend or a moderate/mod-fast rod makes it less straining over extended periods of time by acting as a sort of sling shot but wouldn’t a stiffer rod give you more leverage?

[garroyo130]

I'm not the most experienced big bait fisherman, but I will tell you that after switching to a more sidearm, baseball swing-like cast I'm much more comfortable chucking swimbaits out there 

[looking45]

A stiffer rod will make it harder on you. Use a more

flexible rod and use a lob cast. Let the rod do the work

[VolFan]

Flexible rod, more gradual stroke - the rod flexes and creaks instead of the things that are holding your shoulder together. I also have gone to an almost underhand golf flip of a cast, where space allows. More comfortable and much easier on my body. I’ve never understood trying to overhead muscle big baits.

[WRB]

1 to 3 lures shouldn’t be an issue casting all day if your casting motion is correct. 
Fishing rods are not baseball bats and shouldn’t be swung like one.

The rod should load up and launch the lure with the casting casting motion as 3/4 to 1 oz lures.

Most swimbait rods are moderate action similar to crank bait rods only longer.

Tom

[Hammer 4]

Yeah, trying to chuck big baits with an overhand cast isn't the best way to get em way out there. As mentioned above more of a sidearm cast, and as Tom said, let the rod load up before releasing the thumb bar. Been chucking big swimbaits a long time, never had any issues.

[Tatulatard]

15 hours ago, Ohioguy25 said:

I’ve found that repeatedly casting these heftier baits (smaller swimbaits and glides) can be taxing on your joints.  I’ve heard some say that the parabolic bend or a moderate/mod-fast rod makes it less straining over extended periods of time by acting as a sort of sling shot but wouldn’t a stiffer rod give you more leverage?

Maybe but thats not the root cause of the issue.  With baits in that weight range with a 7'-7-3", 15" handle rod you can and will naturally want to use the same casting motions to cast 3 oz as you do 3/8 oz baits.  This is actually advantagous because you can place baits with high accuracy and control tight to cover from a kayak in a way you can't with an 8' rod with a 23" handle but it puts stress on your joints.  I use these short big bait rods extensively but stop at about 2.5 to 3 oz.  Beyond that weight range the baits place too much stress on my joints and are difficult to place quietly in the water.  For open water casting and baits over 3 oz I prefer a "bend and send" over head type cast where the rod does the work.  This is where the long rods with long handles come into play. You're just loading the stick and letting it act like a lever and spring.

[Ohioguy25]

7 minutes ago, Tatulatard said:

Maybe but thats not the root cause of the issue.  With baits in that weight range with a 7'-7-3", 15" handle rod you can and will naturally want to use the same casting motions to cast 3 oz as you do 3/8 oz baits.  This is actually advantagous because you can place baits with high accuracy and control tight to cover from a kayak in a way you can't with an 8' rod with a 23" handle but it puts stress on your joints.  I use these short big bait rods extensively but stop at about 2.5 to 3 oz.  Beyond that weight range the baits place too much stress on my joints and are difficult to place quietly in the water.  For open water casting and baits over 3 oz I prefer a "bend and send" over head type cast where the rod does the work.  This is where the long rods with long handles come into play. You're just loading the stick and letting it act like a lever and spring.

So what is the shortest rod/handle length you think I can achieve this “bend and send” technique with? 

[Bankc]

15 hours ago, Ohioguy25 said:

I’ve found that repeatedly casting these heftier baits (smaller swimbaits and glides) can be taxing on your joints.  I’ve heard some say that the parabolic bend or a moderate/mod-fast rod makes it less straining over extended periods of time by acting as a sort of sling shot but wouldn’t a stiffer rod give you more leverage?

It all depends.  There's a point where a slower rod will give you more casting distance due to the sling shot effect.  But that point depends on the weight of the lure, the speed of your cast, and the strength of the rod.  If the rod is underpowered for the weight, it won't load properly and you'll lose distance.  If the rod is overpowered for the weight, it won't recover in time to do a sling shot.  

 

Really, with heavier baits, I tend to use more of a lob than a cast and prefer a stiffer rod for this.  It doesn't affect distance than much and is much easier on my body.  

[Deleted account]

1 to 3 oz weights are actually easier to cast than smaller ones most times, the trick is more power and less action. With the proper motion, the lure will load the rod further down the blank naturally, side arm or 3/4 a better option than overhand most times. Let the rod do the work, and use bigger muscles, you can't use a snap or twist of the wrist and forearm to load the rod, hip and shoulder rotation.

[Tatulatard]

30 minutes ago, Ohioguy25 said:

So what is the shortest rod/handle length you think I can achieve this “bend and send” technique with? 

I still use my 15 .5" handle short big baits rods if that is all I brought with me.  Its a casting technique but you will get better distance with a long rod.  I was throwing a 4 3/4 oz Savage gear pulse tail trout the other day sending it down a point from shallow to deep from a kayak with a 7'2" rod .  With a bait that heavy and no target casting being required I used the bend and send over head cast.  Earlier I was using the same rod to cast a 1.5 oz gantarel jr towards the bank like I would a senko with a normal rod relying heavily on wrist and elbow rotations with lots of forearm.  Different casting techniques for different baits.  I will say that a long rod and handle is more better suited for casting with a bend and send and a shorter rod for target casting.  For a long traditional swimbait rod for casting while seated in a kayak I would want about 17" handle max with a 7'4" 7'8" length range. 

21 minutes ago, Deleted account said:

Let the rod do the work, and use bigger muscles, you can't use a snap or twist of the wrist and forearm to load the rod, hip and shoulder rotation.

Yep.  Although you can use that other casting motion you will get worn out.  I do use them but only in target casting fashion with a shorter rod and a max weight of 3 oz. Putting 5 and 6 inch 3D bluegills and gantarels around docks gets me a big bite every year while everyone else is throwing the currrent meme glide in the middle of the lake.

[Ohioguy25]

42 minutes ago, Tatulatard said:

I still use my 15 .5" handle short big baits rods if that is all I brought with me.  Its a casting technique but you will get better distance with a long rod.  I was throwing a 4 3/4 oz Savage gear pulse tail trout the other day sending it down a point from shallow to deep from a kayak with a 7'2" rod .  With a bait that heavy and no target casting being required I used the bend and send over head cast.  Earlier I was using the same rod to cast a 1.5 oz gantarel jr towards the bank like I would a senko with a normal rod relying heavily on wrist and elbow rotations with lots of forearm.  Different casting techniques for different baits.  I will say that a long rod and handle is more better suited for casting with a bend and send and a shorter rod for target casting.  For a long traditional swimbait rod for casting while seated in a kayak I would want about 17" handle max with a 7'4" 7'8" length range. 

Yep.  Although you can use that other casting motion you will get worn out.  I do use them but only in target casting fashion with a shorter rod and a max weight of 3 oz. Putting 5 and 6 inch 3D bluegills and gantarels around docks gets me a big bite every year while everyone else is throwing the currrent meme glide in the middle of the lake.

So would the Irod SB Jr be my best bet for this? What about standing in a kayak?

[Darth-Baiter]

i vote for a longer handle so you can take advantage of the leverage offered. 

[Ohioguy25]

48 minutes ago, Darth-Baiter said:

i vote for a longer handle so you can take advantage of the leverage offered. 

Where does “longer handle” begin?

[Darth-Baiter]

30 minutes ago, Ohioguy25 said:

Where does “longer handle” begin?

Not sure I understand the question. 
 

it depends on the individual for sure.  But a two handed lob isn’t bad.  I surf fish this way. 
 

or are you asking where …. Not sure what you are asking. 

[Deleted account]

32 minutes ago, Darth-Baiter said:

Not sure I understand the question. 

 

13 63/128th"

[Tatulatard]

1 hour ago, Ohioguy25 said:

Where does “longer handle” begin?

Longer than all your other normal bass rods.  For me it's over 15".  

2 hours ago, Ohioguy25 said:

So would the Irod SB Jr be my best bet for this?

If you want a longer kayak big bait stick for under $150 then it seems like a good fit.

 

2 hours ago, Ohioguy25 said:

What about standing in a kayak?

You'll shoot your eye out

[Ohioguy25]

10 minutes ago, Tatulatard said:

Longer than all your other normal bass rods.  For me it's over 15".  

If you want a longer kayak big bait stick for under $150 then it seems like a good fit.

 

You'll shoot your eye out

Would casting while standing be less straining on my shoulder than from a seated position?

[Tatulatard]

7 minutes ago, Ohioguy25 said:

Would casting while standing be less straining on my shoulder than from a seated position?

I find it to be more efficient. With a bend and send type cast you are just placing the rod over your shoulder and loading up the rod with the weight of the bait and pulling down and back with your the hand on the rear grip then following through with the rest of the cast.  Don't put too much into it with the arm and shoulder holding the rod by the grip behind the reel seat.  Remember, this is a casting technique change 1st and foremost.  You dont get to buy a longer rod and keep casting like you would normal bass baits and expect things to be different.  

[WRB]

Irod IRG783SB 7’8” rod vs IRG794SB 7’9” rod is 1” longer handle, reel lock rig forward is the same.

if you plan on using lures over 4 oz the 794 rated for 3 oz to 6 oz is a better choice. The 794 is more moderate action and casts 1 oz lures OK and 4 1/2 oz like 8” Hudds.

Sitting and casting prevents 00 degree over head casting motion, it should be more of a 45 degrees. 
Hold the reel with your thump point at your ear, other hand on the rod butt end allowing the butt to rotate forward. Very little elbow rise. Foreword swing is excellerated by pulling the rod butt end towards the elbow and rotating your thumb 45 degrees towards you not straight up as most of todays casters do to get the reel spool parallel to the water. The wrist rotation towards you reduces tendon stress and is the proper casting motion.

Sit in a chair and practice the above casting motion until it feels natural and comfortable with any casting rod. 
Using a longer rod isn’t or shouldn’t be tiring and your casts will travel long distance as your timing improves.

Tom

[Ohioguy25]

2 hours ago, WRB said:

Irod IRG783SB 7’8” rod vs IRG794SB 7’9” rod is 1” longer handle, reel lock rig forward is the same.

if you plan on using lures over 4 oz the 794 rated for 3 oz to 6 oz is a better choice. The 794 is more moderate action and casts 1 oz lures OK and 4 1/2 oz like 8” Hudds.

Sitting and casting prevents 00 degree over head casting motion, it should be more of a 45 degrees. 
Hold the reel with your thump point at your ear, other hand on the rod butt end allowing the butt to rotate forward. Very little elbow rise. Foreword swing is excellerated by pulling the rod butt end towards the elbow and rotating your thumb 45 degrees towards you not straight up as most of todays casters do to get the reel spool parallel to the water. The wrist rotation towards you reduces tendon stress and is the proper casting motion.

Sit in a chair and practice the above casting motion until it feels natural and comfortable with any casting rod. 
Using a longer rod isn’t or shouldn’t be tiring and your casts will travel long distance as your timing improves.

Tom

Was the 7’8” you’re recommending the Quercus or reg SB Jr?

[WRB]

On 3/29/2023 at 1:56 PM, Ohioguy25 said:

Was the 7’8” you’re recommending the Quercus or reg SB Jr?

Believe the Quercus may use the same blank? with full cork handle and through blank lighter weight reel seat and upgraded guide train, 

Call Matt and ask him.

Was referring to Gen 111 originally, but like the newer Q series!

Tom

[Bird]

All my rods have longer handles to accommodate a 2-handed cast.

My right wrist is shot.

[Ohioguy25]

On 3/28/2023 at 6:27 PM, looking45 said:

A stiffer rod will make it harder on you. Use a more

flexible rod and use a lob cast. Let the rod do the work

How about split grip vs full cork?

[Hammer 4]

6 hours ago, Ohioguy25 said:

How about split grip vs full cork?

These days, i.e, in the last few years, I prefer a split grip, but everyone has their preference.

As a side note, When I was float tubing alot, I could cast my Dobyn's 8' heavy swimbait rod with out any issues, sitting in a float tube you are more restricted in how you can move, so cast a rod 7'9 and longer is doable, just takes some practice.

Also note, I have scoliosis and arthritis in my back, casting big baits all day never really affected me.