Comparing warranty length on lithium batteries

[wasabi_VA]

Probably going to add a trolling motor to the bow of my kayak soon so am shopping for a lithium battery. I'll be going with one of the bigger brands and have the following two high on my list.

 

• Dakota Lithium 100aH $799 and 11 year warranty
• Amped Outdoors 100ah $749 and 5 year warranty

 

Both these prices include a charge, although my main focus is on the difference in warranty. Can I realistically expect these batteries to last 11+ years with proper maintenance? Is the 11 year Dakota warranty actually that much better or is it written where it is hard to collect?

 

[Tennessee Boy]

Read the fine print.  It’s a 6 year warranty and an eleven year manufacture defect warranty.  
 

“Dakota Lithium advertises the minimum expected lifespan of 6 years, or roughly 2,000 recharge cycles at regular use – 4X the recharge cycles of lead acid batteries. 6 years is the guaranteed lifespan under this warranty per the terms above. Batteries that do not meet this guaranteed lifespan of 6 years will be repaired or replaced (warranty exclusions apply, see below). Batteries older than 6 years are still covered by the 11-year manufacture defect warranty per the terms listed above.”

 

Any battery you buy will have cells made in China.  Almost all of the batteries are assembled in China.  I don’t see any evidence that Dakota batteries are any different from every other brand made in China.  They just have better branding.  I could be wrong.  From what I’ve read,  if these batteries don’t fail in six months from poor workmanship,  they typically last as long as any other LiFePO4 battery.
 

Look at Battle Born.  They are a premium brand and are engineered and assembled in the US.  Their 100ah battery is currently on sale for $774.

[Capt Ed]

Impulse Lithium's warranty is 10 years and it is not pro-rated.  I believe they consider end of life to be 3,000 or more cycles.  That's a lot of charges.  

[Woody B]

I've been pleased with my Ionics.  Here's their warranty.  

Quote

Period of Coverage: 

• First 30 days - Refund of original purchase price with return of battery
• 30 days to 5 Years (60 months) - LithiumHub will repair battery free of charge.  If repair is not possible battery replacement will be provided.
• 5 years to 8 years (61 months to 96 months) - LithiumHub will repair or replace battery with a service charge of $150 per battery.
• 8 years to 11 years (97 months to 132 months) - Replacement discount offer of 30% on a similar product valid for 30 days from notification.

Ionics warranty is clear and concise.  Also if you have a problem they'll send you a shipping label.  I've heard nightmares about Dakota's warranty process.  I don't know if what I heard was true, but it was enough to keep me away from them.   Call Lithium Hub (ionic), Impulse, or Drewcraft (ionic dealer) you get a real person on the phone.  I called Dakota and got a call center.   

 

I considered Impulse and Ionic.  I ended up going with Ionic because their location is less than 2 hours from me.   The Impulse warranty is impressive.  I haven't had any problems.  I emailed Lithium Hub with a question, and got a quick answer.   

 

Google, and contact Drewcraft.  They're in north eastern NC, probably not that far from you.  Andy sells Ionic and Monster lithium batteries, as well as a bunch of other marine/fishing stuff.  

[flyfisher]

30 minutes ago, Woody B said:

I've been pleased with my Ionics.  Here's their warranty.  

Ionics warranty is clear and concise.  Also if you have a problem they'll send you a shipping label.  I've heard nightmares about Dakota's warranty process.  I don't know if what I heard was true, but it was enough to keep me away from them.   Call Lithium Hub (ionic), Impulse, or Drewcraft (ionic dealer) you get a real person on the phone.  I called Dakota and got a call center.   

 

I considered Impulse and Ionic.  I ended up going with Ionic because their location is less than 2 hours from me.   The Impulse warranty is impressive.  I haven't had any problems.  I emailed Lithium Hub with a question, and got a quick answer.   

 

Google, and contact Drewcraft.  They're in north eastern NC, probably not that far from you.  Andy sells Ionic and Monster lithium batteries, as well as a bunch of other marine/fishing stuff.  

I also use an Ionic for my kayak battery and I had a similar experience.  I had some questions about what I thought was an issue and their sales manager calld me on a Sunday to make sure i was good to go and wouldn't miss any fishing time the next week as I had a trip planned for the next day.  

 

The warranty is cut and dry and also I relaly like their Bluetooth enabled app to check charge levels.

[GaryH]

What @Woody B and @flyfisher said. Two years with Ionic and no issues.

[Scott F]

Warranty lengths have nothing to do with the quality of a product.  The marketing departments want long warranties to help increase sales but warranties are an expense. The longer the warranty the less profit a company makes. The company decides how many extra sales will offset the higher cost of a long warranty. Lots of junk products offer lifetime warranties and some excellent products only offer 90 days. 

[flyfisher]

3 hours ago, Scott F said:

Warranty lengths have nothing to do with the quality of a product.  The marketing departments want long warranties to help increase sales but warranties are an expense. The longer the warranty the less profit a company makes. The company decides how many extra sales will offset the higher cost of a long warranty. Lots of junk products offer lifetime warranties and some excellent products only offer 90 days. 

Not sure this is accruate at all.  If a company stands behind their product and knows it wil lperform as it should for X amount of years then extending a warranty adds minimal expense.  

[Scott F]

30 minutes ago, flyfisher said:

Not sure this is accruate at all.  If a company stands behind their product and knows it wil lperform as it should for X amount of years then extending a warranty adds minimal expense.  

A company like St Croix makes a product that if not abused will easily last 30 years. Their warranties are abused by people who after slamming their rod in a car door, claim the rod broke on a fish. Those claims cost a lot to honor. It’s a big reason they reduced the length of their warranty. It wasn’t because their rods quality dropped. 

[flyfisher]

10 hours ago, Scott F said:

A company like St Croix makes a product that if not abused will easily last 30 years. Their warranties are abused by people who after slamming their rod in a car door, claim the rod broke on a fish. Those claims cost a lot to honor. It’s a big reason they reduced the length of their warranty. It wasn’t because their rods quality dropped. 

except those aren't warranty items and st croix makes you pay for those types of issues or at least they used to.  I haven't looked into them for a while but it used to have varying levels of "warranty" cost based on age and if you want to upgrade etc..  The only company I know of that explicitly states we don't care how you broke your rod it will be "warrantied" is Temple Fork.  I had a fly rod break and I sent it in with the $40 payment and within a week I had a conversation and upgraded to a new rod by splitting the difference in cost. 

[HenryPF]

On 3/25/2023 at 7:38 AM, wasabi_VA said:

Probably going to add a trolling motor to the bow of my kayak soon so am shopping for a lithium battery. I'll be going with one of the bigger brands and have the following two high on my list.

 

• Dakota Lithium 100aH $799 and 11 year warranty
• Amped Outdoors 100ah $749 and 5 year warranty

 

Both these prices include a charge, although my main focus is on the difference in warranty. Can I realistically expect these batteries to last 11+ years with proper maintenance? Is the 11 year Dakota warranty actually that much better or is it written where it is hard to collect?

 

 

For these prices, I would just buy a Chinesium Battery at $329 with a 5 year warranty unless you need bluetooth. They even make mini 100ah batteries now.

 

I won't replace my AGMs for another few years, but this one is on my short list unless I want bluetooth.

 

 

 

[wasabi_VA]

Will my 2/10/30 amp charger work to charge a lithium battery? I read somewhere it could, can’t find that reference now. I would limit charge rate to 10ah.  It has a selector for battery type listing Wet, Gel and AGM.
 

 

[GaryH]

1 minute ago, wasabi_VA said:

Will my 2/10/30 amp charger work to charge a lithium battery? I read somewhere it could, can’t find that reference now. I would limit charge rate to 10ah.  It has a selector for battery type listing Wet, Gel and AGM.
 

 

You first need to decide which battery, then get ahold of the manufacturer and they will let you know. I know Ionic list the chargers that work with their batteries.  It’s something you don’t want to guess at.

[immortl]

29 minutes ago, wasabi_VA said:

Will my 2/10/30 amp charger work to charge a lithium battery? I read somewhere it could, can’t find that reference now. I would limit charge rate to 10ah.  It has a selector for battery type listing Wet, Gel and AGM.
 

 

What GaryH said above.  My understanding is the lithium  batteries charge at and up to a higher voltage than wet/gel/AGM.  In my research as I was looking for lithium batteries, you want a charger that has a lithium mode.  I picked up an Ionic 20ah charger when I bought my 2 batteries from them.  But I've also noted that the 4.5ah charger/tenders I picked up from Costco have a Lithium mode as well.  The battery provider should be able to steer you towards one.

[wasabi_VA]

I’m getting the Ionic 100aH from Drew. 

Ionic website says 

 

• Can be charged with most traditional lead-acid chargers. (Chargers that don’t have “Desulfate” mode. And provided the current levels do not exceed lithium battery charge specification.)
• Your 12V 100Ah battery can be completely charged with a standard lead-acid charger that achieves 14.4-14.6 volts.
• Chargers with a voltage of fewer than 13.6 volts will only charge at 50% capacity or less.

I’ll  check my charge voltage on a std deep cycle I have here 

[immortl]

6 minutes ago, wasabi_VA said:

I’m getting the Ionic 100aH from Drew. 

I haven't actually used mine yet, they're sitting on the floor in here, but the bluetooth app is pretty cool and useful. 

[wasabi_VA]

I hooked my older traditional deep cycle battery onto my charger and it went to 14.9v during charging. That is higher than the Ionic spec of 14.4-14.6v although not a lot higher. I've read a lot about being careful with lithium charging so might just use the Ionic 4a charger that was offered free with the Ionic battery although that might not charge fast enough for overnight charging. Usually I'm not fishing back to back days so can live with that. Would be nice if I could use my smartcharger if I'm in a hurry but not sure if I should given the output.

[immortl]

If you call Ionic (lithiumhub.com), they're pretty friendly and helpful.  I called them twice (hit option for tech support) and each call was immediately answered by the same friendly knowledgeable guy, forgot his name.  704-360-9311.

[Woody B]

Ask Drew which charger to use.   I suspect the AGM setting will be good.   

[Fishingmickey]

Might want to check that closely. The lithium batteries have a BMS (battery maintainer system) in them. The charger has to be BMS compatible. If it doesn't say it is compatible it probably isn't.  NOCO Genius II chargers are BMS compatible.

Hope that helps,

FM

[wasabi_VA]

called Ionic support and they said my existing charger is fine even though it registers 14.9v. He said to use the AGM setting. He also said the 4a Ionic charger was fine too just would take longer 

[fishingram24]

I did a lot of reading on lithium batteries before going with 2 50 amp Ionics from Drewcraft. Probably all are near the same but I had heard bad things about Dakota customer service and good about Ionic. I messaged Drewcraft with my questions and received a prompt reply with an answer which went a long way with me. Also they were a little cheaper than some of the other name brands and received delivery in less than a week. After 3 months they have been as advertised and would not hesitate to recommend.  

[22RangerZ520R]

I have Ionics, two 125ah parallel for cranking and electronics and three 100ah for the Ultrex.  Zero issues.

 

Get with Andy/Drewcraft, customer service is top notch.

[airshot]

My experience with any long term warranties are not that good.  Seems there is always a catch. Do you have the original receipt?  The original packaging? Questions on how it was charged, how it was stored etc,  you need a two page synopsis on how the battery was used and stored, always an excuse to not honor the warranty!!  Prorated means nothing...the price of a replacement battery is jacked up sky high so you really dont get much discount !   A real true warranty is the length of time the object will be replaced if it fails to work!!  Forget prorating it is a game. So just consider the time you will get a full replacement and how easy it will ve to get that claim.  If claim is comming from China, forget it, it probably wont happen....

[dickenscpa]

19 hours ago, airshot said:

My experience with any long term warranties are not that good.  Seems there is always a catch. Do you have the original receipt?  The original packaging? Questions on how it was charged, how it was stored etc,  you need a two page synopsis on how the battery was used and stored, always an excuse to not honor the warranty!!  Prorated means nothing...the price of a replacement battery is jacked up sky high so you really dont get much discount !   A real true warranty is the length of time the object will be replaced if it fails to work!!  Forget prorating it is a game. So just consider the time you will get a full replacement and how easy it will ve to get that claim.  If claim is comming from China, forget it, it probably wont happen....

Unfortunately you're exactly right. I'm really into competitive archery and this is a big deal with bows. Just about every bow manufacturer gives a lifetime warranty to the original owner. Problem comes down to that fine print. The bow companies are all trying to one up each other every year so a flagship model bow might be manufactured 2-3 years. So your usually good 2-3 years after that you'll get the "we don't make that bow anymore or parts" story and you'll get offered a trade in of your broken bow on their new flagship. 

 

I've never seen anyone get what I would call a "deal" when trading that broken bow in on their newer flagship bow, but the real caveat is that new bow you just got doesn't carry the same warranty.

 

I get EXTREMELY frustrated dealing with warranties - consumer things I buy, vehicles, etc. I feel way more than often that warranties are thrown out as selling points with no real intent on honoring the warranty and loopholing the crap out of it to get out of it. Obviously there are exceptions.

 

I prefer to buy something at a local store and know who I take it back to and I just tape the receipt to it and hope for the best. The place you buy the item from has WAY more to do with your warranty experience than most realize. The place you bought it contacting the manufacturer and going to bat for you has always worked better for me than me calling them direct.