Its A Rivian!!!

[gim]

Good to know @softwateronly. Thanks for the info.

[BigAngus752]

On 3/16/2023 at 7:52 PM, Koz said:

They are currently building another plant in Morgan County, GA. Well, they are trying to build one. Between their financial problems and Morgan County residents protesting it isn't going that well. 

That's interesting.  I know they have some issues at the Illinois plant because my son had to go over and provide an estimate.  The company he works for is going to make some significant corrections to a system that isn't working for them due to poor construction.  That's tough when it's your only place to make your product. 

[Darth-Baiter]

i read that Norway or Sweden..(iceland?) has a huge Tesla population.  they have some factory mods that make it work. not sure what they are.  Iceland is almost 100% renewable energy sourced becasue they are parked ontop of volcanic activity, and most of their cars are EV's.  that place gets butt cold. 

[casts_by_fly]

1 hour ago, Darth-Baiter said:

i read that Norway or Sweden..(iceland?) has a huge Tesla population.  they have some factory mods that make it work. not sure what they are.  Iceland is almost 100% renewable energy sourced becasue they are parked ontop of volcanic activity, and most of their cars are EV's.  that place gets butt cold. 

 

Norway.  Teslas are the most popular manufacturer there.  Norway is also ~80% electric vehicles.

[Chowderhead]

On 3/16/2023 at 8:16 PM, gimruis said:

Have you received it yet?

@gimruisPicked up the Venza this morning, then had a long drive home (275 miles) from the dealer (could not find one locally). Driving 75+ mph got us 36.5 mpg. Once we got home, had a local 35 mile trip that was good for 45.0 mpg. I think as we get use to the car, we will learn how to maximize the hybrid benefits. 

[gim]

Excellent @Chowderhead

[gim]

On 4/1/2023 at 6:46 PM, Chowderhead said:

@gimruisPicked up the Venza this morning, then had a long drive home (275 miles) from the dealer (could not find one locally). Driving 75+ mph got us 36.5 mpg. Once we got home, had a local 35 mile trip that was good for 45.0 mpg. I think as we get use to the car, we will learn how to maximize the hybrid benefits. 

Circling back on this as the RAV4 Hybrid I ordered way back in February is slated to arrive in early November. They upgraded me to a 2024 model (no charge) instead of a 2023, since the 2023’s are all spoken for already.

 

They initially told me 4-8 months and mid November is 8 months.

[Chowderhead]

On 9/12/2023 at 7:50 PM, gimruis said:

Circling back on this as the RAV4 Hybrid I ordered way back in February is slated to arrive in early November. They upgraded me to a 2024 model (no charge) instead of a 2023, since the 2023’s are all spoken for already.

 

They initially told me 4-8 months and mid November is 8 months.

@gimruis that is great it is finally headed your way and upside getting the 2024. We’ve loved the Venza and getting 43.3 mpg after 6,700 miles. Not sure I’m ready for full electric but sure loving hybrids.

[gim]

Hey @Chowderhead look what my wife and I picked up today.

[Darth-Baiter]

badass.  looks like a stormtrooper!!

[the reel ess]

Full disclosure: I own a 2008 Silverado and a 1981 Z28.

 

I'm not anti-EV, though I am very pro-ICE. But this truck looks much more attractive and capable than Elon's Cybertruck. I saw a few X (Twitter) posts lately about EVs depreciating as much as $40K in the first year. The battery is most of their cost. They're going to be disposable. Also the cost of owning and driving one, when all government subsidies are factored in, is comparable to driving an ICE for decades with gas at $18-20/gallon.

 

As for the argument that they run off coal, that's an exaggeration. Coal accounted for about 20% of power generation in 2022. These plants are being converted to natural gas so that percentage is going down. EVs do in fact lower greenhouse gas emissions. Now the acquisition and disposal of the battery materials and their propensity to catch fire and burn down whatever structure is around them is problematic. I prefer he idea of a plug-in hybrid. Best of all worlds.

[ElGuapo928]

I can’t really buy into the whole EV thing, as they just aren’t practical where I live. 
 

That said, I’m a firm believer that we have strayed a little too far from automotive common sense….my ‘64 C10 gets better mileage than my 2017 Ram, has never had to get towed to the dealership for electronic issues, and has made it 60 years on the original radiator where the Ram is on number 3. Something doesn’t add up here.

[gim]

41 minutes ago, ElGuapo928 said:

I can’t really buy into the whole EV thing, as they just aren’t practical where I live. 

I agree.  Not very practical in a cold weather climate.  That's partially why I didn't make the full jump to an EV.  I figured a hybrid was a good step in between full gasoline and full EV.

 

I see a decent amount of Teslas here but I assume they are parked in a heated garage at night time.  There's no way people are parking those things outside in the winter here over night when its dropping below zero on a regular basis.

[Darth-Baiter]

I have a gas guzzling Tacoma, and a Tesla.  best of both worlds.  

 

I have both eyes open and didn't buy the Tesla to save the world or anything.  living where I live it makes total sense.  we have chargers everywhere, altho our personal Tesla has never ever seen a Tesla Fast-charger.  not even once.  we charge it at home with our Tesla charger overnight when the power is less expensive.  wake up to a charged car.  we only charge it enough for the days activities.    if the battery craps itself, we will decide if we replace it or not.  we have the money saved to do so if we want.  saved it up.

 

my tacoma.  hell, I have two of them.  that is my marathoner.  my roadtrip ride, my kayak fishing ride, etc.  doing the numbers, the Tesla truck is the only EV that would have the range to get me to some of my lakes.   but no.  I already bought the Tacoma.  I do have a deposit on the Cybertruck tho.  moment of weakness.  

[gim]

9 minutes ago, Darth-Baiter said:

I do have a deposit on the Cybertruck tho

The salesman at the Toyota dealership yesterday told me he has a 2024 Toyota Tundra Hybrid on order.  He placed his deposit last year and was told a year and a half until he could expect its arrival.

 

He also told me that buying new vehicles will never be how it used to be when the lot was full of them and they would sell them "on the spot."  Supply chain has caught up fully now but car companies have no reason to stock their lots with brand new cars and make deals to sell them.  Rather, they will continue to make them at a slower pace and try to keep that in sync with demand so they can sell them at full price.  I paid $3500 less for a brand new one than the used ones that were on the lot yesterday that had 25,000 miles on them.  The kicker is that I had to wait 8 months for it.

[ElGuapo928]

11 minutes ago, gimruis said:

I agree.  Not very practical in a cold weather climate.  That's partially why I didn't make the full jump to an EV.  I figured a hybrid was a good step in between full gasoline and full EV.

 

I see a decent amount of Teslas here but I assume they are parked in a heated garage at night time.  There's no way people are parking those things outside in the winter here over night when it’s dropping below zero on a regular basis.

They don’t like 100 plus either. I’ve got a friend that bought a Model 3 as a commuter, and he declared that the only winner on the thing was SRP (electric utility). He said between the summer AC and charging the car pretty much constantly, his bill was bankrupting him. 

[Darth-Baiter]

no way.  we charge all the time at home.  comparing cost, the EV is about 30% of what gas would be.  

[gim]

7 minutes ago, Darth-Baiter said:

the EV is about 30% of what gas would be.  

Maybe the cost of gasoline where you are is playing a role.  Have to imagine its quite expensive in the Bay Area.

[the reel ess]

3 hours ago, ElGuapo928 said:

I can’t really buy into the whole EV thing, as they just aren’t practical where I live. 
 

That said, I’m a firm believer that we have strayed a little too far from automotive common sense….my ‘64 C10 gets better mileage than my 2017 Ram, has never had to get towed to the dealership for electronic issues, and has made it 60 years on the original radiator where the Ram is on number 3. Something doesn’t add up here.

I'm intrigued by the news of the future Ramcharger. It will have a 3.6L Pentastar engine, not connected to the drivetrain, but rather to charge a battery to run front and rear motors. Supposedly this is good for over 600 hp and torque and a range of 690 miles with a full tank. But having owned a Jeep Wrangler with the 3.6L, I'd bet it will have an engine code or two in the first month.

[Darth-Baiter]

43 minutes ago, gimruis said:

Maybe the cost of gasoline where you are is playing a role.  Have to imagine its quite expensive in the Bay Area.

ahhh..great point.  really great point.  thanks.

[casts_by_fly]

22 hours ago, the reel ess said:

Full disclosure: I own a 2008 Silverado and a 1981 Z28.

 

I'm not anti-EV, though I am very pro-ICE. But this truck looks much more attractive and capable than Elon's Cybertruck. I saw a few X (Twitter) posts lately about EVs depreciating as much as $40K in the first year. The battery is most of their cost. They're going to be disposable. Also the cost of owning and driving one, when all government subsidies are factored in, is comparable to driving an ICE for decades with gas at $18-20/gallon.

 

 

I can't speak to all EVs, but our 2019 tesla model X was 92k I think (maybe 95k) sticker price in 2019.  We sold it in 2022 for $85k by going through a 'we buy any car' type of service, so not even maximizing our sale price.  Also, I would like to see the source material calculating the $18-20 per gallon.  Using out 2022 model X as an example, the only subsidy we received ouselves was the no sales tax in NJ.  The total sales price was comparable to an equivalent size/capability ICE SUV.  The per mile cost vs gas is about 1/2 or so on the tesla network when we do long trips.  Often when EVs are compared to gas cars for total cost of ownership dissimilar vehicles are compared for the base price.

 

21 hours ago, Darth-Baiter said:

I have a gas guzzling Tacoma, and a Tesla.  best of both worlds.  

 

I have both eyes open and didn't buy the Tesla to save the world or anything.  living where I live it makes total sense.  we have chargers everywhere, altho our personal Tesla has never ever seen a Tesla Fast-charger.  not even once.  we charge it at home with our Tesla charger overnight when the power is less expensive.  wake up to a charged car.  we only charge it enough for the days activities.    if the battery craps itself, we will decide if we replace it or not.  we have the money saved to do so if we want.  saved it up.

 

my tacoma.  hell, I have two of them.  that is my marathoner.  my roadtrip ride, my kayak fishing ride, etc.  doing the numbers, the Tesla truck is the only EV that would have the range to get me to some of my lakes.   but no.  I already bought the Tacoma.  I do have a deposit on the Cybertruck tho.  moment of weakness.  

 

change 'tacoma' to Ram and you've pretty much got us.  We home charge most of the time.  We take her car on trips up to 350 miles or so providing there is charging.  Since we're starting in NJ, there is plenty of charging in the north east  and within 350 miles of here.  If we're going much farther, we'll take my truck and save the charging time.

 

18 hours ago, gimruis said:

Maybe the cost of gasoline where you are is playing a role.  Have to imagine its quite expensive in the Bay Area.

 

Even with relatively cheap gas here in NJ its still about 1/2 the cost for electric vs gas per mile when using the tesla network and comparing to a comparable gas SUV.

 

I just found that I can look in the tesla app and it tracks all of our charging and compares it to gas.  It uses NJ average fuel prices and NJ average electric costs.  They use 22 MPG average for a comparable ICE vehicle.  With all of those assumptions, we've saved about $1300 vs a gas car so far this year.  3/4 of our charging is at home, the rest superchargers on trips.  Home cost is $0.17 per kWh and the model x is roughly 3 miles per kWh.  That's about $0.06 per mile with home charging.  The supercharger shows as twice the price, so $0.12 per mile.  At $3.25 a gallon you need to get 27 mpg to equal the cost of supercharger network and 54 mph to equal NJ home charging.  At $5.25 (current bay area pricing) and the tesla supercharger network prices (assuming similar prices in the bay area as to our trips) you'd have to get 43 mpg ICE to break even.  All of this info is for a model X also which isn't nearly as efficient as a model 3.  I suspect your new car will be great for total efficiency.  Our friends have a Venza and a highlander, at least one is hybrid, and they love them.

 

18 hours ago, the reel ess said:

I'm intrigued by the news of the future Ramcharger. It will have a 3.6L Pentastar engine, not connected to the drivetrain, but rather to charge a battery to run front and rear motors. Supposedly this is good for over 600 hp and torque and a range of 690 miles with a full tank. But having owned a Jeep Wrangler with the 3.6L, I'd bet it will have an engine code or two in the first month.

 

The ramcharger has my attention.  The Ram revolution does also.  I don't think we could have a revolution and a tesla to be fully electric, not until the national charging network for non teslas is as good as tesla's network (or the tesla network opens up).  That said, the 500+ mi range promised on the Rev is more than enough for me/us.  The ramcharger seems like a way for ram to market to people who don't fully trust electric or who are in places where full electric is impractical.  Its basically a phEV on steroids.  I'm not sure why they would use the 3.6 as the generator though, that seems big.  All that said, going from my current Ram with a hemi to an electricified version of it would be an easy transition.  We can home charge so the ~165 mile battery range would mean my local driving would be fully electric from the wall and trips would be electric from the gas pump.  I'm curious what efficiency the 3.6 will get converting gas to eletrical power.  It will be better than gas to the wheels (mechanical systems are highly inefficient) but will it be enough to justify having to maintain both a gas engine and an electrical system.

[gim]

17 minutes ago, casts_by_fly said:

I suspect your new car will be great for total efficiency.  Our friends have a Venza and a highlander, at least one is hybrid, and they love them.

It is projected to get 41 mpg and can go 600 miles on one tank.  I'm sure that number drops some in the winter with colder temps though.

 

The Highlander Hybrid is a nice SUV too, but its a little over kill for what I need.  If I had a bigger family and more garage space I would probably go with that model instead.

[casts_by_fly]

1 minute ago, gimruis said:

It is projected to get 41 mpg and can go 600 miles on one tank.  I'm sure that number drops some in the winter with colder temps though.

 

The Highlander Hybrid is a nice SUV too, but its a little over kill for what I need.  If I had a bigger family and more garage space I would probably go with that model instead.

 

They have 4 kids so...

 

Enjoy the new ride!

[Darth-Baiter]

20 hours ago, gimruis said:

Maybe the cost of gasoline where you are is playing a role.  Have to imagine its quite expensive in the Bay Area.

my entire electrical and natural gas bill is about $300 per month on average.  that is with charging the tesla.    we do about 1000 miles per month.  that's awesome compared to the $250 i do with the Tacoma.  and i bet i do 500 miles per month.    that is neglecting the fact that we have computers and stuff running almost full time at home.  

[the reel ess]

1 hour ago, casts_by_fly said:

 

I can't speak to all EVs, but our 2019 tesla model X was 92k I think (maybe 95k) sticker price in 2019.  We sold it in 2022 for $85k by going through a 'we buy any car' type of service, so not even maximizing our sale price.  Also, I would like to see the source material calculating the $18-20 per gallon.  Using out 2022 model X as an example, the only subsidy we received ouselves was the no sales tax in NJ.  The total sales price was comparable to an equivalent size/capability ICE SUV.  The per mile cost vs gas is about 1/2 or so on the tesla network when we do long trips.  Often when EVs are compared to gas cars for total cost of ownership dissimilar vehicles are compared for the base price.

 

 

 

 

 

Found it. It's not the cost for you to drive it. It's the total operating cost of an EV. this says $17/gallon. I've seen higher claims though.  https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/policy/energy-environment/study-fueling-electric-vehicles-17-gallon 

 

Mind you, 92K is already high cost compared to practically, any ICE in the same class. So it immediately costs you tens of thousands more to drive it than a comparable ICE. Admittedly, I don't know what class of luxury your Tesla is in or comparable to.