Are most people opposed to live sonar?

[TN bassmaster]

1 hour ago, Fishingmickey said:

Please don't include Randy when your speaking about one of the greats.

FM.

i agree! he is going back to a row boat with oars soon and then say everyone else should too lol

 

[treble hook]

I like it. I don’t own it yet but I plan to. I’m working on a trolling motor with I-pilot first, then livescope.

[DitchPanda]

1 hour ago, Fishingmickey said:

Please don't include Randy when your speaking about one of the greats.

FM.

That's not what my post was about

[padon]

On 3/11/2023 at 8:44 AM, Tennessee Boy said:

The people who believe in live sonar the most seem to be the ones that don’t have it yet.  It’s easy to imagine how it can revolutionize your fishing.  It’s harder to actually do it.

 

I’ve had Humminbird MEGA Live for about a year.  I absolutely love it but I also know that I’ve caught fewer fish in the last year because of it.  It changed the game and I’m a rookie at the new game.  I can tell you stories about fish I caught with it that I would have never caught without it.  I also know that I didn’t catch fish while I was messing with the settings.   I spent a lot of time chasing non bass that I could see on the screen and spent a lot of time throwing at fish that would follow but not strike. 
 

One trip I was forced to fish with only my console fish finder and none of my bow electronics due to a battery charging mistake.  I had to switch back to the techniques that had served me well for decades and I had the best day of the year.  My second best day,  the fish were so close to the bank that I rarely looked at my electronics.
 

I love live sonar because it makes fishing more interesting.  Knowing that a fish followed my lure but didn’t take it makes a cast much more interesting than just throwing a lure out and reeling it in.  I’m also learning a lot about bass behavior and even more about baitfish behavior.  I’m convinced that it’s making me a better angler but like everything it takes time on the water to master.  I’m also convinced that most anglers will not take the time necessary to master it because most anglers have not mastered the electronics they already have.

Time will tell how much live sonar will change fishing.  The fish may have to adapt.   The fish and wildlife agencies may even have to adapt.  I have no doubt that all the hype will fade with time and the next new thing capture our attention.

 

this is what has me thinking. do i wanna put my money into ffs or would i enjoy 360 more.I dont fish big time derbys just local weekend stuff sometimes. im not really interested in staring at the screen chasing suspended fish. what i would really like is to know exactly where my brushpiles, rock piles etc are . im i hitting them on my casts. i want to see little points cuts hard spots etc in submerged grass. 

[gim]

For those of you that aren't against live sonar or FFS, are you against the number of units that should be permitted into competition?  Just wondering if you think 1 or 5 or 8 is fine, regardless of how many are mounted on the boat.

 

I'm accepting of this technology in tournaments (and general use by recreational anglers), I just think there needs to be a limit.  Like 1 unit per boat or something like that.  Although I think its ungodly boring to watch anglers stare at a screen in competition, its another tool that can be used in order to finish higher in the standings.

[Cbump]

I just can’t see how multiple units in a bass tournament could be beneficial or anything more than a pia to deal with. So I don’t really care. 
 

I don’t care about musky tournaments. You can argue that on a musky forum. 

[Team9nine]

20 minutes ago, gimruis said:

For those of you that aren't against live sonar or FFS, are you against the number of units that should be permitted into competition?  Just wondering if you think 1 or 5 or 8 is fine, regardless of how many are mounted on the boat.

 

I'm accepting of this technology in tournaments (and general use by recreational anglers), I just think there needs to be a limit.  Like 1 unit per boat or something like that.  Although I think its ungodly boring to watch anglers stare at a screen in competition, its another tool that can be used in order to finish higher in the standings.

Yes - the simplest solution IMO, and what I’d personally like to see, is a boat “screen limit.” So no boat can have more than 36” or 40” of total screen size on it, period - front and back combined.

 

This leaves the technology chosen, individual size units, and how many total units to the discretion of each angler to customize to their preference without technically restricting or banning use of any one type of unit. You could be 40” of all FFS, or no FFS, or anything in-between. Run 4 10” units, or a 16” with 2 12” units, or 5 8”  units, etc. Any combination of 360/FFS/SI/DI/2D you want.

 

This ultimately keeps everyone on a level playing field and somewhat caps expense without hindering tech development.

[gim]

3 minutes ago, Team9nine said:

Yes - the simplest solution IMO, and what I’d personally like to see, is a boat “screen limit.” So no boat can have more than 36” or 40” of total screen size on it, period - front and back combined.

 

This leaves the technology chosen, individual size units, and how many total units to the discretion of each angler to customize to their preference without technically restricting or banning use of any one type of unit. You could be 40” of all FFS, or no FFS, or anything in-between. Run 4 10” units, or a 16” with 2 12” units, etc. Any combination of 360/FFS/SI/DI/2D you want.

 

This ultimately keeps everyone on a level playing field and somewhat caps expense without hindering tech development.

Great idea.  Never thought of it like that.

[Deleted account]

8 minutes ago, gimruis said:

Great idea.  

 

It's really not, quite the opposite.

[gim]

3 minutes ago, Deleted account said:

 

It's really not, quite the opposite.

Lol maybe you should take that up with @Team9nine.

[Deleted account]

2 minutes ago, gimruis said:

Lol maybe you should take that up with @Team9nine.

 

Nothing to take up, he thinks it's a good idea and I don't. It's not a competition. 

[Logan S]

On 3/11/2023 at 8:44 AM, Tennessee Boy said:

The people who believe in live sonar the most seem to be the ones that don’t have it yet.  It’s easy to imagine how it can revolutionize your fishing.  It’s harder to actually do it.

This is the most accurate statement in the thread.  

 

And on the topic of screen/tech restrictions...I think it's a self-limiting issue.  There's only so much real estate available on the bow and console to cram screens in and guys are maxing out right now.  Also, when FFS was limited to only Garmin... having that extra 3rd screen up front was 'necessary' for anyone that didn't run a Garmin ecosystem.  Now that all 3 major brands have a version of FFS it's not really needed anymore and IMO is overkill.  I bet you actually start seeing the pros start going back to 2+2 again instead of the 5 unit setups.  It's just not worth the added expense, management, power draw, etc.  

 

I think the whole for/against argument around FFS is like some of the other 'hot button' topics in bass fishing, in that it exists 1000% more on the internet than it does in real life.  When you show up to a tournament, no one cares who has what on their boat...They just show up and fish.  In the big picture of tournament bass fishing (at any level), the expense of adding FFS is really not THAT much.  So anyone that truly believes they are being held back by not having it yet should just bite the bullet and invest in it...and be ready to realize it ain't as magic as you thought it was .  

[volzfan59]

On 3/9/2023 at 12:20 PM, Tennessee Boy said:

In a recent video Randy Blaukat does his usual rant against Livescope and says 80% of anglers are opposed to it.   I find that hard to believe.  If it’s true then why aren’t local tournament organizations cashing in on the demand for tournaments that ban live sonar?  Do you think 80% of anglers are opposed to live sonar?  Do you currently have it?  Has it ruined the mystery and magic of fishing for you?

 

 

Personally, I don't have FFS, don't care to spend the money on it as I don't see the benefit for me. I enjoy shallow water junk fishing.

 

"Against it", I'm not really against anything that's not illegal. For bass anglers, the vast majority return their catch (no, I'm not against people keeping a few bass for the table if that's what they want). That being the case, FFS really is really no big deal.

 

Around where I live there are crappie and bluegill angler's using FFS. The majority of those fish are going to the freezer. On our big lake's and river's where the spawn is more prolific, it might not be a big deal. Could FFS have an impact on our smaller lake's and river's? Yes I think that it could, but the juries still out. As more data comes out, the truth will be told. Are angler's using FFS on smaller bodies breaking the law, no they're not. Therefore, until I see some numbers I'm not really "against it", just a little apprehensive.

 

As far as Randy's numbers and/or percentages, I think that he's talking about his viewership not the entire angling community. Also, I don't believe in this "mysteries and magic" b/s at all. While I have been a fan of Randy's since the mid 80's, the more I listen to his opinion pieces the more I think that he is a little bit off plumb.

[Dogface]

1 hour ago, Logan S said:

So anyone that truly believes they are being held back by not having it yet should just bite the bullet and invest in it...and be ready to realize it ain't as magic as you thought it was .  

 

I thought FFS would be a game changer for a few of the lakes I fish regularly. I ordered a Lowrance unit. In the interim, I read or watched everything I could including some stuff by and about Josh Jones.  It quickly became apparent that using the FFS was more like playing a video game than fishing. One statement that read something like " your eyes will be glued to the screen constantly" opened my eyes. I like to fish and I don't play video games. 

 

When the unit came in I passed on the TM transducer and had them mount the unit on my console. Spending that kind of money and not using all the features may seem like a waste of money to many but it may be a better option for me. I like to find fish or structures and fish them. Much like hunting. The new Lowrance unit is an upgrade to the SI and DI unit I have been using and will let me fish the way I like with hopefully more detail. 

 

As for the FFS if I decide to try it I'll buy the transducer and move it to the front of the boat. Until then I'll keep fishing the way I enjoy fishing. 

[TnRiver46]

19 hours ago, gimruis said:

Those are the worst. Midsummer up north where they’re all drop shotting for smallmouth. Terribly boring way to fish, and even worse to watch. Haha

Is something wrong with your remote control??

 

this reminds me of the new stupid baseball rules, if you don’t like the way baseball is played change the darn channel 

[gim]

4 minutes ago, TnRiver46 said:

Is something wrong with your remote control??

 

this reminds me of the new stupid baseball rules, if you don’t like the way baseball is played change the darn channel 

Lol I don't spend any measurable amount of time watching either one of those you stated because of the lack of brain activity it stimulates for me.  I was simply stating how boring the northern midsummer smallmouth tournaments are.

[TnRiver46]

1 minute ago, gimruis said:

I was simply stating how boring the northern midsummer smallmouth tournaments are.

We’ve heard……..

 

I just so happen to enjoy them along with thousands of other people 

[gim]

1 hour ago, volzfan59 said:

Around where I live there are crappie and bluegill angler's using FFS. The majority of those fish are going to the freezer. On our big lake's and river's where the spawn is more prolific, it might not be a big deal. Could FFS have an impact on our smaller lake's and river's? Yes I think that it could, but the juries still out. As more data comes out, the truth will be told. Are angler's using FFS on smaller bodies breaking the law, no they're not.

That's almost exactly what is occurring up here in the winter through the ice with live sonar.  Panfish are primarily targeted as a harvested species, especially through the ice.  Ice fishing here has far more participants than people open water fishing too.  Thousands upon thousands of people descend upon our lakes, big and small, to target and harvest panfish every winter by the bucketful.

 

The jury (the MN Dept of Resources) has already made their decision on this, and last year they severely reduced daily bag limits of sunfish and crappies on over 90 lakes here.  More will be coming.

 

Another item that is playing a role, at least up here, is that panfish season never closes.  So they receive year-round pressure.  They willingly bite every season, including in winter.  Our bass, walleye, northern pike, muskie, and trout seasons actually have full closures for part of the year to protect them during spawning.  Most states do not have a fully closed season on certain species of fish (especially bass), so that's not something many are familiar with on this forum.

 

 

[gulfcaptain]

So I have it, use it, love it. Do I depend on it....NO!. It's probably  the most misunderstood piece of equipment just because how a lot of people frame it. Like stated here in prior comments, still need to get fish to bite. But when you listen to Rick Clunn, he said "why would you oppose something that can teach you? What we thought we new we were 80% wrong". This coming from someone way more successful  the Mr Randy who's a boob. He's lost his mind,  needs to blame someone or something.  The excuse it's only for the rich who can afford it, but yet he sports 12" screens, 100k brand new boat, 5k in power poles on the back and a 3k trolling motor with spotlock! So he picks and chooses what is good and bad in accessories.  I can't afford 5k in power poles but spent 2k on my ffs (Blackbox and screen). Is it harder for me to fish shallow when I can't park my boat with 2 powerpoles fishing shallow in the wind...yes. Am I gonna throw a rant on Utube and demand they be banned......no. I can fish shallow or deep. FFS is a tool. It let's me see bottom in real time, cover,  structure, and fish. But it gives me a visual picture in real time like looking at visible cover and let's me be more efficient and effective. Can make decisions on what I see which saves me time and let's me make better decisions and time management. Why are these bad? Why?  I'd respect Randy's rants if he pulled off all the electronics,  installed a flasher, went to a basic trolling motor and lost the power poles. But like someone said he's a troll, and definitely  a boob. Its misunderstood  and that's because of people like him and those who DON'T understand it and DON'T want to.

[txchaser]

FFS, both in person and watching videos, is letting me see some things with my eyes and in real time. How do fish set up on a bit of cover, how often do you really have followers (all the time), what really happens when a pack of bass smash into a shad ball, how far they will come to get a moving bait if they want it, etc.  Best I can tell when they are following they aren't very far under it, so the stop and go is a way shorter stop than I imagined. There's way more big fish around than I think I realized too.

Point being, even if you think it's horrible, watch some videos with it onscreen, you might notice some really interesting things. 

 

Eventually the unpressured fish won't be unpressured any more, and it'll get harder. But every bit of side scan and 360 improved catches too. 

[Cbump]

On 3/14/2023 at 9:03 AM, Logan S said:

The people who believe in live sonar the most seem to be the ones that don’t have it yet.

People keep quoting this like it’s some great quote but it doesn’t even make sense. If I were a betting man I’d say the people that believe in It the most are the people that own It. Why would they have It if they don’t believe in It? You think Jacob Wheeler believes in It less than that some schmuck on this forum that doesn’t have It yet? 
 

On 3/14/2023 at 11:43 AM, TnRiver46 said:

Is something wrong with your remote control??

 

this reminds me of the new stupid baseball rules, if you don’t like the way baseball is played change the darn channel 

Along the same lines, all these people saying they won’t get It because they don’t want to stare at a screen all day (specifically the guy that bought it and put it on the console)…is there something keeping you from tilting your head up and looking around? Is there some reason you can’t locate the structure you like and then start fishing It without looking at the screen? You’re going to be doing that anyway at the console. 

[gulfcaptain]

On 3/14/2023 at 6:13 AM, gimruis said:

For those of you that aren't against live sonar or FFS, are you against the number of units that should be permitted into competition?  Just wondering if you think 1 or 5 or 8 is fine, regardless of how many are mounted on the boat.

 

I'm accepting of this technology in tournaments (and general use by recreational anglers), I just think there needs to be a limit.  Like 1 unit per boat or something like that.  Although I think its ungodly boring to watch anglers stare at a screen in competition, its another tool that can be used in order to finish higher in the standings.

I don't understand. What difference does it make? I have 4 units, 2 9s up front (gps map and ffs) and a 10 and 12 on the console. Kept my 12 Lowrance because I like having the old traditional 2d sonar that Garmin doesn't.  But then Garmins mapping software is better and although I run mapping on both they both show something different. Would love to have a 360 on the bow too. Why because it gives me information.  Is it needed for shallow shore fishing, no. But when you have lakes in S. Cal. that have depths of 200ft and you're considered fishing shallow at 20ft which puts you 50ft off the bank the more info I have to locate a tree, rock pile, brush, or ledge that isn't marked and get a real-time view of it gives me information on how to approach it and set up.  Why are people against this? Should I be against some having 100k bass boats because I can't? Oh or $500 G Lomis rods because they are too expensive  for me.....of course not sounds crazy when it's put that way yet some want to justify their issue with some having multiple screens and ffs because it's too expensive or unfair to them.  Is it fair my boat only goes 64mph but that new Basscat can do 85mph. So he shouldn't be able to go that fast because if I fish a tournament against him he'll beat me to my area possibly.   The how many units is a mute point. They want to have 5 units so be it. I can tell you if they do each one is showing them a different piece of information that they are looking for which lets them make better decisions and become more productive. My question  is isn't  that what we all want to be better at? Or you just happy being mediocre? I think most strive to be better and learn more. 

[Deleted account]

On 3/14/2023 at 11:31 PM, txchaser said:

There's way more big fish around than I think I realized too.

 

Yup. Most LMB guys feel this way to their detriment. I think it comes from the shoreline shallow cover fishing that most folks start out with. Certainly in grass, or deeper structure, they are almost always grouped up.

[Logan S]

9 hours ago, Cbump said:

People keep quoting this like it’s some great quote but it doesn’t even make sense. If I were a betting man I’d say the people that believe in It the most are the people that own It. Why would they have It if they don’t believe in It? You think Jacob Wheeler believes in It less than that some schmuck on this forum that doesn’t have It yet? 

You're taking it way too literally...

 

It just means that many people without FFS tend to over-exaggerate how 'easy' it is to catch bass with it...It's more of a joke or shot at the people that act like it takes the skill out of bass fishing. 

 

It is accurate though 

[gim]

7 hours ago, gulfcaptain said:

I don't understand. What difference does it make?

So you're OK with someone mounting 8 live or FFS units on their boat then.  OK.

 

As previously stated multiple times now, a team showed up in northern Wisconsin on the PMTT last July doing just that and cleaned house in a 2 day event.  All they did was scan the lake for muskies and then throw every lure they had at it, until they pestered it long enough to bite.  That's not fishing, and the Board of Directors saw it the same way.  Banned every live sonar unit for the remainder of the season.  It matters now because its against the rules.

 

Do I see this happening on a pro bass tour?  Maybe.  If someone showed up with a dozen live sonar units and cleaned house in an event because of it, I am pretty sure there would be a response from the rule makers and the rest of the competitors would be out with pitchforks too.

 

I am not against using it.  I've stated this many times.  But there should be a limit.  @Team9nine proposal on maximum screen size per boat is a pretty good idea.  There's limits on outboard size, there's limits on speed, there's limits on legal fishing hours, there's limits on lures/strategies, etc.  Are you against all those limits too?  Why does it matter if someone showed up at 3am to start fishing when everyone else starts at 7am?  Why does it matter if someone wanted to sit there with 8 bobbers out with big shiners dangling when everyone else is using one artificial lure at a time?  Because there needs to be a boundary somewhere.  This isn't any different.