BustedSwimbait Posted March 9, 2023 Posted March 9, 2023 I'm against FFS, but that's cuz I'm a poor SOB that can't afford it haha But in all actuality, its just another tool in the Bass arsenal to help LOCATE fish. I feel FFS gives a sense of confidence that once you see the fish, just throw everything you got on your boat and there's probably a good chance you'll catch it. That's just my poor opinion. 1 Quote
Super User Choporoz Posted March 9, 2023 Super User Posted March 9, 2023 I'm not sure any bass fishing 'personality' (at least in the last several years) get more of his videos and opinions discussed....here and elsewhere. I rarely watch him anymore, and usually disagreed when I did.  But I will acknowledge his genius. 2 Quote
Cbump Posted March 9, 2023 Posted March 9, 2023 2 hours ago, Tennessee Boy said: In a recent video Randy Blaukat does his usual rant against Livescope and says 80% of anglers are opposed to it.  I find that hard to believe.  If it’s true then why aren’t local tournament organizations cashing in on the demand for tournaments that ban live sonar?  Do you think 80% of anglers are opposed to live sonar?  Do you currently have it?  Has it ruined the mystery and magic of fishing for you?   No way in hades is 80% of anglers opposed to It. I can’t for the life of me understand why anyone cares what kind of sonar another person uses. 1 hour ago, FryDog62 said: I’m going to go out in a limb and guess 100% that have it support its use, and 100% of those that don’t have it but can afford are against it… no way. You can not want something for yourself and also not oppose It.  1 Quote
Super User gim Posted March 9, 2023 Super User Posted March 9, 2023 17 minutes ago, BustedSwimbait said: I feel FFS gives a sense of confidence that once you see the fish, just throw everything you got on your boat and there's probably a good chance you'll catch it. That is exactly what a team on the PMTT did in northern Wisconsin near Eagle River last July. They mounted 8 units to their boat, slowly went around the lake scanning for muskies, and when they found one they threw every lure they had at it until it was pestered into biting. They blew the competition out in that event, catching 8 on day 1 and 3 on day 2. The next closest team that finished in 2nd place entered a grand total of 3 fish in 2 days. They could have just sat out on day 2 and still easily won.  That's exactly what I'm talking about when I say there needs to be some kind of limit on units. In response to this team's shenanigans, the board of directors banned all live sonar for the remainder of the season's circuit. I think it was a bit of a knee-jerk reaction, because a lot of other teams used one unit while they muskie fish in competition. I don't know what they intend to do for this upcoming season, but there will very likely be some kind of limit...if they are allowed.  The only point I'm trying to make here is that all it takes is for one person to go way over the top and ruin it for everyone else. 5 Quote
Super User J._Bricker Posted March 9, 2023 Super User Posted March 9, 2023 42 minutes ago, TnRiver46 said: And all these years I thought you were reading my posts……… ?  I’ve posted this story on here many times, but I was fishing a set of rapids with my friends, and we had three guys in the boat, all getting skunked for several hours.   It was super hot and confidence was low so I jumped into the water and started swimming. My buddy said he had a diving mask and a snorkel if I wanted to use it. Turns out we were fishing amongst a whole bunch of large smallmouth bass. The fish are always there, most often ignoring the efforts of fishermen. Or following the lure without biting, heck they would follow me while I was swimming and even mean mug my mask face to face  Diving mask: the original forward facing sonar  True dat about the face mask, but with FFS on the boat I don’t have to play Lloyd Bridges and get to stay warm and dry while wondering how to get them to bite.  Full disclosure, when I first got the unit I watched some videos on YouTube. One video was by a guy in Australia and it showed a school of fish swimming across the screen recorded by his FFS. Then here comes his lure, possibly a crankbait, towards the school of fish. The school of fish stopped like cars at a traffic light, let the crankbait pass and once passed the school continued swimming as before.  The younger anglers will embrace FFS and other emerging technologies in my opinion are more adept with it. And if it helps helps younger people embrace the sport and become stewards of our natural resources I’m all for it. 1 1 Quote
Ktho Posted March 9, 2023 Posted March 9, 2023 1 hour ago, KSanford33 said: I'm no more opposed to LiveScope or FFS than I am someone using an $800 driver in a golf tournament. At the end of the day, you still need to get the fish to bite or put the ball in the hole.  I do fish tournaments, but almost invariably I start shallow and work my way deeper if I need to. I'll be the first to admit that I can't afford it. Actually, let me rephrase that, my marriage can't afford it, but I don't know that I'd get a ton of use out of it even if I could.  Does your opinion change knowing drivers and golf equipment are restricted? The technology is there to increase distance, spin, etc. but the rules of golf prohibit it, same for some different types of shots like putting. This is almost more akin to the recent equipment controversy with the long putters and anchoring to the body that everyone could do but they banned it. 7 Quote
Super User Darth-Baiter Posted March 9, 2023 Super User Posted March 9, 2023 i dont have it and probably wont for awhile. i want to perfect my craft first.  plus i am not fishing for a living. if i was, i would buy the best and everything i could. 1 Quote
Gera Posted March 9, 2023 Posted March 9, 2023 At the end its all about endorsements, it not like they will stop taking money from the companies that develop these things neither these companies will try to make them even better so they can get our money. We just need save our money until they develop one that will show the fish on HD and a AI algorithm that can tell us if its hungry or not.  Professional are on the same boat, they wont complain until they are too old to keep up with tech. (Like sample A)  9 minutes ago, Darth-Baiter said: i dont have it and probably wont for awhile. i want to perfect my craft first.  plus i am not fishing for a living. if i was, i would buy the best and everything i could.  that is the problem I guess, our craft will be obsolete as tech will replace it. 1 Quote
Vilas15 Posted March 9, 2023 Posted March 9, 2023 53 minutes ago, KSanford33 said: I'm no more opposed to LiveScope or FFS than I am someone using an $800 driver in a golf tournament. At the end of the day, you still need to get the fish to bite or put the ball in the hole.  I do fish tournaments, but almost invariably I start shallow and work my way deeper if I need to. I'll be the first to admit that I can't afford it. Actually, let me rephrase that, my marriage can't afford it, but I don't know that I'd get a ton of use out of it even if I could. They got limits on golf clubs and balls. Size of driver heads and limiting other measurements of performance. They've hit the current ceiling on driver distance and theres plenty of controversy about it ruining the game since courses are made too easy with newer tech. You can only use clubs conforming to the PGAs rules in official tournaments. And nobody sells non conforming clubs except for TV infomercial gimmicks so that people don't accidentally disqualify themselves. 4 minutes ago, Cbump said: No way in hades is 80% of anglers opposed to It. I can’t for the life of me understand why anyone cares what kind of sonar another person uses. no way. You can not want something for yourself and also not oppose It.  Same way I care what kind of guns and other equipment somebody uses when hunting. They've got to follow the same rules as me to ensure a fair chase. Sonar is a new technology without any rules so like many tech industries any gov regulation is way behind since most lawmakers barely understand email.  In bass fishing its not really a problem since people catch and release, but some of this new tech allows people to really put a dent in panfish on the ice. The pro musky tournament trail just banned FFS this past season midway.  I am just wondering whats the end game? The tech will keep improving, until what? We can wear virtually reality goggles and see every fish in the lake and the computed odds theyre feeding based on their location and activity? Gotta draw the line somewhere before the tech goes too far. You can't use night vision to hunt deer even though you still have to find them and shoot them because it makes it too easy. You can't use a drone to spot deer (as far as i know, which is basically what Livescope is to fishing. 5 Quote
Global Moderator TnRiver46 Posted March 9, 2023 Global Moderator Posted March 9, 2023 11 minutes ago, Ktho said:  Does your opinion change knowing drivers and golf equipment are restricted? The technology is there to increase distance, spin, etc. but the rules of golf prohibit it, same for some different types of shots like putting. This is almost more akin to the recent equipment controversy with the long putters and anchoring to the body that everyone could do but they banned it. Fishing tournaments ban motors under 150 hp. You can’t show up with a 9.9 evinrude and compete. Or an Alabama rig in the big leagues 1 Quote
Dogface Posted March 9, 2023 Posted March 9, 2023 Well, this thread accomplished one thing. It got me to watch another Randy Blowhard video. I promised myself I would not watch him again....but I caved. ? 5 Quote
KSanford33 Posted March 9, 2023 Posted March 9, 2023 24 minutes ago, Ktho said:  Does your opinion change knowing drivers and golf equipment are restricted? The technology is there to increase distance, spin, etc. but the rules of golf prohibit it, same for some different types of shots like putting. This is almost more akin to the recent equipment controversy with the long putters and anchoring to the body that everyone could do but they banned it. That's an excellent question, but no, it doesn't change my opinion. I think the sports' governing bodies have the sports best interests at heart. I think competitive fishing's governing bodies need to examine the use of LiveScope and FFS just to see if they think it's in the sport's best interest. I know competitive muskie fishing banned them. 5 Quote
Super User gim Posted March 9, 2023 Super User Posted March 9, 2023 17 minutes ago, Vilas15 said: In bass fishing its not really a problem since people catch and release, but some of this new tech allows people to really put a dent in panfish on the ice. The pro musky tournament trail just banned FFS this past season midway. I was going to mention the ice fishing thing too that is putting an absolute hurt on panfish up here in the winter. Livescope cuts way down on the amount of time people need to spend looking for fish and drilling holes. And unfortunately, most ice anglers are meat hunters so virtually none of them are going back. We can only hope that most bass anglers remain on the conservation side of things and continue to release them. 2 Quote
Super User Darth-Baiter Posted March 9, 2023 Super User Posted March 9, 2023 16 minutes ago, Vilas15 said: They got limits on golf clubs and balls. Size of driver heads and limiting other measurements of performance. They've hit the current ceiling on driver distance and theres plenty of controversy about it ruining the game since courses are made too easy with newer tech. You can only use clubs conforming to the PGAs rules in official tournaments. And nobody sells non conforming clubs except for TV infomercial gimmicks so that people don't accidentally disqualify themselves. Same way I care what kind of guns and other equipment somebody uses when hunting. They've got to follow the same rules as me to ensure a fair chase. Sonar is a new technology without any rules so like many tech industries any gov regulation is way behind since most lawmakers barely understand email.  In bass fishing its not really a problem since people catch and release, but some of this new tech allows people to really put a dent in panfish on the ice. The pro musky tournament trail just banned FFS this past season midway.  I am just wondering whats the end game? The tech will keep improving, until what? We can wear virtually reality goggles and see every fish in the lake and the computed odds theyre feeding based on their location and activity? Gotta draw the line somewhere before the tech goes too far. You can't use night vision to hunt deer even though you still have to find them and shoot them because it makes it too easy. You can't use a drone to spot deer (as far as i know, which is basically what Livescope is to fishing. awesome point!!!  hunting. no doubt you can draw some parallels.  hunting is carefully regulated to maintain "fair chase" no drones, no rich dudes with helocopter spotters, no night vision, no heat vision. in AK, you cant even hunt the same day you fly in so you cant run after a moose you saw on the flight in.  i remember a hunting outfit that legally had trackers. like 20 fit mountain hikers that would find the trophy animals and get the hunter to the spot. hardly fair. but like live sonar, at this point it takes $$ to play.  i think livescope is like heat/night vision for hunting.  4 Quote
TN bassmaster Posted March 9, 2023 Posted March 9, 2023 im not opposed to it in anyway but i think alot are and alot of people are probally neutral 1 Quote
KSanford33 Posted March 9, 2023 Posted March 9, 2023 For those of you who think it gives an unfair advantage, how long do you think it'll be before major series start banning it? Quote
TN bassmaster Posted March 9, 2023 Posted March 9, 2023 i dont think they will ever ban ffs in tournaments who sponsors the trails ? 3 Quote
Vilas15 Posted March 9, 2023 Posted March 9, 2023 1 minute ago, KSanford33 said: For those of you who think it gives an unfair advantage, how long do you think it'll be before major series start banning it? I don't think they will due to the money spent by the companies that are selling it who want you to see the pros using it. It'd take government regulating its use, and that's my concern that they're way behind the times and by the time the tech gets too good the cat will be out of the bag. 2 Quote
Gera Posted March 9, 2023 Posted March 9, 2023 5 minutes ago, KSanford33 said: For those of you who think it gives an unfair advantage, how long do you think it'll be before major series start banning it? When the money from whoever is their electronics sponsor dry.. 1 Quote
JediAmoeba Posted March 9, 2023 Posted March 9, 2023 5 minutes ago, TN bassmaster said: i dont think they will ever ban ffs in tournaments who sponsors the trails ? When sales start to dip because the technology had hit a wall, or the latest technology released isn't a huge upgrade to what is currently available.  Every sporting event limits the use of things and puts restrictions in place - except bass fishing. Imagine showing up to a nascar race with an f1 car. Putting lead in your boxing gloves? Right now I think it's OK for the top Pros but the local derbies? Nah 2 Quote
Ktho Posted March 9, 2023 Posted March 9, 2023 18 minutes ago, KSanford33 said: For those of you who think it gives an unfair advantage, how long do you think it'll be before major series start banning it?  I personally don't think it gives an unfair advantage. However, back to golf, I think it will happen after a person like Sam Snead who got the straddle putt banned in golf is exceptionally good at using it and starts winning a disproportionate amount of events. If no one person starts dominating in a big way I doubt it will get banned. 1 Quote
Captain Phil Posted March 9, 2023 Posted March 9, 2023 TV bass tournaments are not everyday bass fishing. They are money making enterprises for the TV producers, organizers and marine products companies. If Randy or anyone else wants to compete in those tournaments, they should buy their own Live Sonar.  If I was still in the tournament business, you better believe I would have whatever it takes to win.  What I am against is the ever increasing entry level of bass fishing. From my living room window, I can see across Lake Eustis. On any given day, I watch millions of dollars in bass boats and tow vehicles ride by. Why do all these people believe they need to spend the cost of a small house to catch bass? Bass fishing should be an enjoyable pastime, not a boat show for posers. 6 Quote
Super User gim Posted March 9, 2023 Super User Posted March 9, 2023 19 minutes ago, Vilas15 said: It'd take government regulating its use, and that's my concern that they're way behind the times and by the time the tech gets too good the cat will be out of the bag. What the MN state DNR has done here is simply reduce daily bag limits of panfish on over 100 lakes here. These lakes used to have a daily bag limit of 20 sunfish and 10 crappies per angler. Now, they have a daily bag limit of 5 sunfish and 5 crappies. A lot of generational meat hunters got their pitchforks out when this happened. IMO there is going to be more in the future too. I am on the side of more conservative regs when it comes to this, rather than fixing the problem after its too late, so a severely reduced bag limit is fine by me. 1 Quote
TN bassmaster Posted March 9, 2023 Posted March 9, 2023 meat fisherman with livescope is scary  3 Quote
Susky River Rat Posted March 9, 2023 Posted March 9, 2023 I can afford it. I am against it. I highly doubt 80% of people are against it. I would be willing to bet 80% of people are for it not against it. Most people want tools to make what they are doing easier. That’s what livescope is. I think it is a clear advantage most of the time over someone who doesn’t have it.  Pressured fish move and get harder to catch. That’s what I feel is the biggest down fall to this. 2 Quote
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.