Are most people opposed to live sonar?

[Alpster]

I am totally against this technological sorcery! What's next electro generators, explosives? If you have an ethical bone in your body, you should immediately send these evil gadgets to me so I can dispose of them in an environmentally friendly manner. I'll PM my address to interested parties.

[PABASS]

Technology is here to stay and will continually evolve. As I have mentioned on Randy's Bs tube channel a few times; what is the difference between his team doing an on the water lesson or paying for his GPS coordinates vs livescope, none! 

Convincing my wife to allow me to purchase, this is my problem, I spend enough on fishing so I am not complaining but its my next large purchase.  To see how a fish reacts in its own environment to my attempts at catching it would be the best teacher I could have up till this point.  To gain confidence in certain baits would be another huge plus!

[GaryH]

On 4/4/2023 at 10:14 AM, Alpster said:

I am totally against this technological sorcery! What's next electro generators, explosives? If you have an ethical bone in your body, you should immediately send these evil gadgets to me so I can dispose of them in an environmentally friendly manner. I'll PM my address to interested parties.

You had me going… ?

[KP Duty]

A local newscaster went fishing with a guode on a local lake.  She talked about the live sonar and said it was called video game fishing because you stare at the screen while you fish.  I will not be staring at a screen while I fish.  I go fishing to get away from staring at my computer screen.  Tournaments should be held with and without livescope.

[MN Fisher]

My only complaint is that they're out of reach of the average angler...I mean one of these setups cost more than it took me to build and outfit 'Bass Trek'. Based on my yearly budget, I'd have to spend nothing on fishing for almost 3 years to get one.

[Cdn Angler]

Eventually the price will come down, like everything else. And even then it's a pittance compared to an expensive boat. 

 

It 100% changes the nature of fishing when you can always tell if a fish is there or not. And can see what the fish is doing in real time. Personally I enjoy trying to figure out where the fish are and piecing that together. And I don't want to look at a screen all day. I go to great pains to escape my computer, which is why I'm fishing in the first place. 

 

I can appreciate that Livescope makes you waste less time and stop fishing dead water, so you can spend more time seeing what fish are doing. On the other hand, you don't need to spend half as much time thinking about seasonal patterns or bass behaviour. 

 

Jury is out on the impact it has on fish populations. I can't imagine the result will be anything positive, but the extent is hard to gauge. The one thing I'm certain of is that ice fishing will see fish getting hammered. So many people ice fish and it's freaking hard. If it becomes 20x more efficient (not an exaggeration) that's a lot more fish. And most of them end up in a freezer. 

 

As far as tournament fishing is concerned, there are limitations on tournaments already, same as in every sport, so I think removing it is fine on those grounds. But if pros don't use it and regular Joe Blow does, Joe Blow will potentially outfish a pro due to his tech advantage. And I don't think the pros like the "look" of that. But if catching fish via livescope is seen as its own category, similar to using live bait, that might not be a problem. Personally I don't enjoy watching people LiveScope, same as bed fishing. 

 

Tech won't stop. At some point if you know where every fish in the lake is at, the boat drives itself, maybe you have a self-casting rod/reel, AI picks your lure for you. You don't even need to leave the house anymore. Is that still fishing?

 

[TnRiver46]

@Cdn Angler, they’ve been out for bout 5 years already, especially ice fishing 

[ironbjorn]

I don't care at all if people use it outside of tournaments. Being able to use it in tournaments seems very stupid to me though. This is like if the opposing team got your team's playbook in a football game and people said it was fine because "even though you know what they're going to do, you still have to stop them so it's fine." Which is similar to the "you still have to catch them" defense of FFS in tournaments.

[Woody B]

Old thread, I may have already posted this in this thread.  The money aspect of it amazes me.....meaning the people who complain about live sonar being so expensive/making it too expensive to fish.  A while back a guy came up talking to me at the landing about it.  I guess he saw and recognized my transducer.   He called it live scope, but I have active target.  I was getting ready to load my boat but offered to take him out for a look at the screen.  The cove where the landing is was full of crappie so I showed him the crappie swimming around.  Back at the landing he said he didn't like it, thinks it should be outlawed.  He couldn't afford it, and it was running the cost of fishing up.  He had new looking Vexus VX 21 with a 300 Mercury.    He also had ~20 St Croix rods sitting on the deck.   His engine cost more than my entire boat, motor trailer, all of my sonar equipment, trolling motor ect.   The rods he had on his deck cost more than all of my sonar stuff.  

 

I see people with Kayaks and Jon boats with live sonar.  I also see people with $100K+ boat that don't have it.  It's not about money.   

[gim]

3 hours ago, ironbjorn said:

I don't care at all if people use it outside of tournaments.

I am the complete opposite.  I'm more worried about over harvest of certain species like panfish, especially in the winter here when there's thousands upon thousands of people ice fishing.

 

Honestly could care less in tournaments, as the fish are kept alive and then released.  It might make them tougher to catch, but the majority of them are alive and still breeding.  I find it extremely boring to watch them stare at screens in the summer time for smallmouth, but again, at least the majority of those fish aren't dying.

[flyfisher]

Who cares what people use.  As long as they are legal I am ok with whatever anyone uses.  Conventional fisherman are becoming like fly fisherman whining and moaning about some purity of the sport but not totally just what applies to them....reminds me of the upcoming events in early november as well

[Choporoz]

27 minutes ago, flyfisher said:

Who cares what people use

Clearly, a lot of people 

 

It is changing tournament fishing.  Those who fish, follow or watch tournaments might care. It may affect fish.  It may affect fisheries.  I think it's ok to care and even to have an opinion, as long as they're more or less trying to have an informed opinion 

[Tennessee Boy]

I’ve taken the position that Live Sonar requires skills that are difficult to master and shouldn’t be banned from tournaments.  I’ve also said I don’t think it is a treat to fisheries.  These are my options and I’ll admit that I could be proven wrong on either of them.  This is how I’ll know if I’m wrong.
 

The best argument that live sonar should be banned from tournaments is Kyoya Jujita.  He’s in his 20s and finished 7th in the Elite AOY race.  It appears his primary skill is using Live sonar.   When the top 10 in the AOY standings are all like him,  I’ll admit I was wrong about live sonar in tournaments and will support limits on their use.

 

Concerning the impact of live sonar on fisheries.  The health of fisheries are closely monitored and studied.  If live sonar has a negative impact then the studies will show it and I’ll be proven wrong.  Fortunately,  this problem can be easily fixed with changes to the regulations.   For example,  if you have live sonar installed on your boat then you have different size and/or creel limits.

[flyfisher]

20 minutes ago, Choporoz said:

Clearly, a lot of people 

 

It is changing tournament fishing.  Those who fish, follow or watch tournaments might care. It may affect fish.  It may affect fisheries.  I think it's ok to care and even to have an opinion, as long as they're more or less trying to have an informed opinion 

yeah they do care but why should they?  Everyone has the capability to use them so to me it is nothing more than people crying because they don't have one to use.   I am not one to base things off speculation of it may impact fish or fisheries until there is some data to support it.  My speculation would be that a good number of the fish that are caught using the live scope wouldn't even be fished for otherwise and there are studies that showed how there are way more fish in places we didn't think they were.

 

[gim]

18 minutes ago, Tennessee Boy said:

Kyoya Fujita

 

He's toast if it gets banned.  And he knows it too.

[AlabamaSpothunter]

All I know is that I view a DD caught without a scope very differently than one caught on the Scope.   We're living in the "juiced ball" era of fishing.   Records are going to be viewed pre/post FFS decades from now I imagine.  

 

We all have favorite niches within this sport, mine is an amazing curiosity of big Bass.  

 

When somebody like Josh Jones say he caught one before FFS and has already caught something like 80 this year alone because of it......it's hard not to put big Bass caught using it in a totally different category as the guy who goes out there fishing on pure instinct, traditional sonar, and old school knowledge.   

 

It takes as much skill to be a savant scoper as it does to be a savant flipper, savant big swimbait guy, etc.   The problem is that right now you can dominate fisheries and derbies by only being a Scope savant.   You can't dominate the same way slinging big baits, flipping a jig, using a Damiki rig on 2D, etc.   

 

[Tennessee Boy]

Imagine if someone invented a lure that appeared to be far more effective than any other lure.   The top anglers on every pro tour use this one lure 100% of the time and they dominate those that don’t use it.  I wonder how many people would say the lure should be banned.

[gim]

Just so I'm on the same page here, I assume that every pro angler on the major tours is using live sonar by now, no?

[Tennessee Boy]

1 minute ago, gimruis said:

Just so I'm on the same page here, I assume that every pro angler on the major tours is using live sonar by now, no?

I think the answer is yes.  It has joined the long list of technologies that they all have.  How impactful it is to them is another question.  Greg Hackney did not turn it on in the first six tournaments of the year and finished 20th in the AOY race.

[TnRiver46]

39 minutes ago, gimruis said:

Just so I'm on the same page here, I assume that every pro angler on the major tours is using live sonar by now, no?

John Cox has entered the chat…….

 

he does very well with wacky rig and jig and always fishes shallow. But all anyone wants to talk about is FFS so…… people forget 

 

like the biggest fish all year was caught super shallow, in a lake where no one thought would have the biggest fish, without a scope. And everyone has forgotten 

 

its 2023, what actually happens and make sense doesn’t matter whatsoever. The only thing anyone cares about is what’s being said on the internet 

[gim]

8 minutes ago, TnRiver46 said:

he does very well with wacky rig and jig and always fishes shallow

That's my style.  In an aluminum boat no less too.

[DaubsNU1]

I'm still trying to dial in and figure our all the features and intricacies of my MEGA SI+ Helix units. I might try the FFS at some point in the future.

 

I do not care if others use it.

 

I don't watch TV fishing shows, and could not care less about tournament angling (in person, or on TV).

[Bass Junke]

I have not seen this brought up yet but IMO the learning curve to learn to fish is much steeper than learning how to read a screen. It is only a matter of time until more and more anglers develop FFs skills that rival Josh Jones. Eventually most events will be won by the guy who interprets what he or she is seeing on the screen the best. It will eventually be a level playing field, once everyone catches up. Will the winner be the best angler? Is this what we want the future of bass tournaments to be? 

 

Boring? Maybe but catch rates could be higher, quality of fish greater.  

[TnRiver46]

@DaubsNU1, get with the program man! 

 

With characters like this guy, what’s not to love? 

[AlabamaSpothunter]

 

1 hour ago, Tennessee Boy said:

Imagine if someone invented a lure that appeared to be far more effective than any other lure.   The top anglers on every pro tour use this one lure 100% of the time and they dominate those that don’t use it.  I wonder how many people would say the lure should be banned.

 

So like the A-Rig then?

 

To me the A-Rig ban is one of the best arguments that shows how much influence the big electronics sponsors have.......it's laughable they'd ban an A-Rig which is only effective for a few months of the year, but not tech that is way more effective at catching fish and does so year round.