Interesting article about livescope w/ Dobyns/Jones

[KP Duty]

This article was posted on Tackle Tour, but appears to be written by someone else.  It brings mixed feelings for me.  Did you know Josh Jones is a greenhorn?  Yep...the article states he's only been bass fishing a year or so.  He's just really good with electronics.  Sonething about that bothers me...

 

http://tackletour.com/interviewgarydobynsfrontfacingsonar.html

[Jweller]

Not to sound too much like Blaukat here, but this sounds absolutely terrible. Just not what I'm looking to do when I'm on the water.

 

"Craig, he might only make 50 casts in a full day on the water. You get him out there, and he’s one hundred percent totally focused on that screen, finding and staying on big fish. Then he just flips his bait in front of the fish and watches how the fish reacts."

[softwateronly]

Haven't listened to this since I posted it a couple months ago, but here's an interesting interview straight from his own mouth if you haven't heard it.  

 

scott

 

 

[AlabamaSpothunter]

5 minutes ago, softwateronly said:

Haven't listened to this since I posted it a couple months ago, but here's an interesting interview straight from his own mouth if you haven't heard it.  

 

scott

 

 

This video is the one that blew my mind and made me realize that FFS trumps everything including decades of time on water.

 

Dude was fishing from a 14ft Jon fish just a few years ago like me, now he's the king of the big Bass universe.

 

Ben Milliken's videos really bring this point home.  It's not cheating, it's not traditional Bass fishing, it's something entirely new.

 

I'm slowly shifting my opinion on FFS even though I'm currently saving for it.   I think if we could go back in time, we might not invent it.    Randy is right in many regards about FFS.   It certainly is taking the magic away from Bass fishing.  

7 minutes ago, Jweller said:

Not to sound too much like Blaukat here, but this sounds absolutely terrible. Just not what I'm looking to do when I'm on the water.

 

"Craig, he might only make 50 casts in a full day on the water. You get him out there, and he’s one hundred percent totally focused on that screen, finding and staying on big fish. Then he just flips his bait in front of the fish and watches how the fish reacts."

It's certainly hurting the spectator aspect of pro Bass fishing. 

 

Randy is also right about allowing these fish to have a "sanctuary" where they can live unmolested.   Everybody always knew big fish roamed deep, but now FFS has taken the last hiding place from these fish away. 

 

Some people say well you never were gonna catch those fish anyway, to that I say exactly.   

 

Again I say all this as somebody who is DYING to get a scope.   

1 hour ago, KP Duty said:

This article was posted on Tackle Tour, but appears to be written by someone else.  It brings mixed feelings for me.  Did you know Josh Jones is a greenhorn?  Yep...the article states he's only been bass fishing a year or so.  He's just really good with electronics.  Sonething about that bothers me...

 

http://tackletour.com/interviewgarydobynsfrontfacingsonar.html

Go watch some Ben Milliken videos, he's savant level good on it, and he doesn't hide how he's using it.    It's crazy how he teases fish into biting.   100% video game fishing when you get good on that level it seems.  

[Jweller]

12 minutes ago, AlabamaSpothunter said:

Randy is also right about allowing these fish to have a "sanctuary" where they can live unmolested.   Everybody always knew big fish roamed deep, but now FFS has taken the last hiding place from these fish away. 

 

Some people say well you never were gonna catch those fish anyway, to that I say exactly.   

 

Again I say all this as somebody who is DYING to get a scope.   

My biggest concern is definitely the impact on fish populations once FFS becomes "normal" for more people.  In my area the fish already get an absolute ton of pressure and people not respecting the resource. 

[Susky River Rat]

10 minutes ago, Jweller said:

.  In my area the fish already get an absolute ton of pressure and people not respecting the resource. 

Yeah, you aren’t kidding here. I watched a dude make a complete joke out of an extremely hard lake for musky with this tech. 
 

You don’t need to know how to fish you just need to know how to read a screen and keep on fish. It was pretty much point blank said in that article. 

[casts_by_fly]

I think there are a couple things here.

 

-the technology is here and not going away

- there is no arguing with the results

- some people are going to hate it (and my or may not use it depending if it means their living or just their preference/pleasure)

- some people are going to love it

- the bass don’t give two squirts what you use. And the fish being targeted aren’t ones that have been targeted in the past. 
-you don’t need it to catch bass.  If you want to throw a 5” senko down the bank all day with the only rod you brought out of your 25 year old boat then you’re probably going to catch fish (beware the man with only one gun).

 

For me personally, I would like to have it and am planning an upgrade for this season. I don’t plan to change how I’m fishing too much.  I still like to beat the bank with moving baits and that won’t change. Being in a kayak, I’m not going to be chasing down fish like some.  I would like to improve my offshore game and I think it will help me shorten the curve. We also have a bit of standing timber around here and I think it will help me there (I hate to fish standing timber).  I’d also like to learn some things on my lakes that ffs will be able to show me. 

[KP Duty]

I think in the future, we will see tournaments held with and without livescope....just like bodybuilding, where they hold events that are 'natural' and 'untested' aka w/steroids.

[FishTank]

Every tournament I fished in last year, except one, was won with FFS and a newbie fisherman that understood how to use it. You can't deny its a tool to find fish. With it, the days of beating the bank are almost over. My hope is that it does get banned in tournament fishing and guys can start fishing with instinct and knowledge again instead of video game level electronics. 

[BlakeMolone]

Josh has bass fished his entire life, I think he was just referencing the fact that he had been big into crappie before he started focusing on bass again. Dude has been catching anything and everything that swims in Oklahoma since he was a kid.

[KP Duty]

22 minutes ago, FishTank said:

Every tournament I fished in last year, except one, was won with FFS and a newbie fisherman that understood how to use it. You can't deny its a tool to find fish. With it, the days of beating the bank are almost over. My hope is that it does get banned in tournament fishing and guys can't start fishing with instinct and knowledge again instead of video game level electronics. 

The bass fisherman demographic doesn't favor 50k+ boats with 5k+ in electronics.  I'm surprised the market can sustain as many boat makers as it does, but that is another thread in itself.  Starting a tournament trail that doesn't allow livescope could be a big deal...and grow fast.  I'm wanting to start a Pelican Bass Raider league....no ffs...just trying to figure out the groundwork.

[TnRiver46]

2 hours ago, Jweller said:

My biggest concern is definitely the impact on fish populations once FFS becomes "normal" for more people.  In my area the fish already get an absolute ton of pressure and people not respecting the resource. 

The fish will be fine 

32 minutes ago, FishTank said:

Every tournament I fished in last year, except one, was won with FFS and a newbie fisherman that understood how to use it. You can't deny its a tool to find fish. With it, the days of beating the bank are almost over. My hope is that it does get banned in tournament fishing and guys can't start fishing with instinct and knowledge again instead of video game level electronics. 

You can still fish on instinct, tournaments aren’t mandatory. Also John Cox is a tournament fishing force that doesn’t use it 

[WIGuide]

2 hours ago, KP Duty said:

Did you know Josh Jones is a greenhorn?  Yep...the article states he's only been bass fishing a year or so.  He's just really good with electronics.  Something about that bothers me...

The article also states he was a phenomenal crappie fisherman and that he was considered one of the best on the planet. One thing I've noticed over the years, is people who are great at fishing a particular species are also pretty dang good at fishing for other species. It's not like he's just some guy who just decided to get into fishing and stumbled on success. Also, Chris Zaldain and Gary Dobyns are very talented bass fishermen and they admit Josh is very good at what he does and they'd have to practice for a very long time to be on that same level, so what makes you think the average joe will have the ability?

 

1 hour ago, Jweller said:

Not to sound too much like Blaukat here, but this sounds absolutely terrible. Just not what I'm looking to do when I'm on the water.

 

"Craig, he might only make 50 casts in a full day on the water. You get him out there, and he’s one hundred percent totally focused on that screen, finding and staying on big fish. Then he just flips his bait in front of the fish and watches how the fish reacts."

Pretty simple solution to not wanting to do it while you're on the water....don't. Nobody is saying you have to fish that way. 

When it comes to tournament fishing, take this into consideration. The first two elite series events someone using FF sonar did end up winning the event, however there were just as many guys NOT using FF that were right there in the running. A lost fish here or there, or a whiff of a hookset was all that separated them. If it was that dominant as everyone makes it out to be, or as easy as everyone seems to think it is from reading the article, shouldn't they have been won by a landslide? The way everyone makes it seem, the winner should have had a 10 lb. average going. 

[JediAmoeba]

It's too powerful in tournaments. Should the top Pros be using it - probably. 

 

I am torn if all this technology is good for sport in the long run, but I don't think it is. The part I hate the most is seeing new to the sport kids winning and beating people that have spent years honing in their skills. Time on the water doesn't really mean anything anymore and that is a detriment, imo, to people sticking around very long. People will go do other sports that aren't so cost prohibitive. 

[FishTank]

1 hour ago, TnRiver46 said:

You can still fish on instinct, tournaments aren’t mandatory. Also John Cox is a tournament fishing force that doesn’t use it 

 

From what I have seen, some of these guys rely on it too much and when they do, the results are obvious. 

 

Instinct is pretty much all I got these days.  Makes fishing more fun.

 

 

[Deleted account]

I'm surprised most of yall aren't commuting to work in one horse Amish buggies, and flying in biplanes while wearing goggles...

[king fisher]

4 hours ago, Deleted account said:

I'm surprised most of yall aren't commuting to work in one horse Amish buggies, and flying in biplanes while wearing goggles...

 I would love to be able to afford a biplane, or FFS.  I can't so maybe a buggy would be nice.

[JediAmoeba]

4 hours ago, Deleted account said:

I'm surprised most of yall aren't commuting to work in one horse Amish buggies, and flying in biplanes while wearing goggles...

That's a poor analogy - should we be allowing all athletes to take HgH? Steroids? Those are advances in medicine so it's all good, right? 

 

They don't allow live bait - there are restrictions to the sport but most of them seem to be rules that directly benefit the pockets of companies...

[Deleted account]

3 minutes ago, JediAmoeba said:

there are restrictions to the sport but most of them seem to be rules that directly benefit the pockets of companies...

 

Duh! Professional sport leagues are businesses, so yeah, $ is what guides most of their decisions, and it should be, and there are long lists of banned substances, as well as those with limits in most governing bodies of both professional and amateur sports, so yeah, their use or not use are also part of the rules. If any of this is good or bad, right or wrong is certainly up for debate, but ultimately, those who own or run the organizations get to decide.

[KP Duty]

4 hours ago, Deleted account said:

I'm surprised most of yall aren't commuting to work in one horse Amish buggies, and flying in biplanes while wearing goggles...

There's a happy medium.  I want my driving somewhere in between a horse buggy and a self-driving electric car, and I want my fishing electronics somewhere in between a flasher and livescope.

[Cdn Angler]

2 hours ago, JediAmoeba said:

That's a poor analogy - should we be allowing all athletes to take HgH? Steroids? Those are advances in medicine so it's all good, right? 

 

They don't allow live bait - there are restrictions to the sport but most of them seem to be rules that directly benefit the pockets of companies...

 

Exactly. You can't use artificial bait, chum the waters, net fish, use an Alabama rig or even troll in tournaments. Why? Either because a) it's boring or b) it's too easy. 

 

The same arguments apply to FFS, the only difference being that live shiners aren't created by a giant corporation. 

 

Bass tournaments have been placing restrictions on what you can do to catch fish for 40+ years. There'd be nothing categorically different about a restriction on technology. So really the argument should just be about the pros/cons of FFS and unrestricted technology. 

 

I'm curious to see what lure manufacturers think of FFS if it completely takes over. They'll always be shallow fishermen, but if deep livescoping is dominant you are looking at huge swaths of lure categories that become obsolete. Yes other techniques will take their place, but the amount of tackle you use will probably go down by like 70%. 

 

And the top pros try to sell lures they use. If they all are using arigs and a flutter spoon there's only so much of those you can sell.

 

If you only make 50 casts/day you aren't cycling through baits, losing baits, carrying 10 rods etc. 

 

[Jrob78]

I'm not sure how I feel about this. Off the bat I don't like it but I really don't know why. I remember when down scan and side scan were new, technology doesn't go backwards. This isn't the ultimate sonar tool, it's just the best one we have now, there will be something better at some point. Pro tournaments have been filled with dudes staring at their 4 or 5 giant screens for years now so that isn't new. I don't fish pro tournaments anyway so that doesn't change anything for me. 

 

I hate that there are 1000 boats crawling all over OH Ivie every day looking for the next teener and what that might do to an amazing fishery. I guess ultimately that's what it is for me, I hate that it takes some of the mystique away from catching a once in a lifetime bass and I hope it doesn't do long term damage to some great fisheries but I honestly don't know that it will.

[Cdn Angler]

4 minutes ago, Jrob78 said:

I'm not sure how I feel about this. Off the bat I don't like it but I really don't know why. I remember when down scan and side scan were new, technology doesn't go backwards. This isn't the ultimate sonar tool, it's just the best one we have now, there will be something better at some point. Pro tournaments have been filled with dudes staring at their 4 or 5 giant screens for years now so that isn't new. I don't fish pro tournaments anyway so that doesn't change anything for me. 

 

I hate that there are 1000 boats crawling all over OH Ivie every day looking for the next teener and what that might do to an amazing fishery. I guess ultimately that's what it is for me, I hate that it takes some of the mystique away from catching a once in a lifetime bass and I hope it doesn't do long term damage to some great fisheries but I honestly don't know that it will.

 

The only benefit I can see is that small fish may rarely be caught and will be able to spawn and do their thing without being caught and released. If you don't have to catch 50 total Bass to keep 5 big ones and strictly fish for the big ones you see, theoretically there's less total fishing pressure on all Bass. But big Bass will be getting absolutely hammered. Eventually you'd assume the big Bass would evolve to bite less often, or diminish in terms of total numbers of big fish.  

[Fishin Dad]

On 3/9/2023 at 7:08 PM, Deleted account said:

 

Duh! Professional sport leagues are businesses, so yeah, $ is what guides most of their decisions, and it should be, and there are long lists of banned substances, as well as those with limits in most governing bodies of both professional and amateur sports, so yeah, their use or not use are also part of the rules. If any of this is good or bad, right or wrong is certainly up for debate, but ultimately, those who own or run the organizations get to decide.

Or fans that stop watching people stare at screens all day.  That will change some minds.  

On 3/9/2023 at 8:52 PM, Cdn Angler said:

 

Exactly. You can't use artificial bait, chum the waters, net fish, use an Alabama rig or even troll in tournaments. Why? Either because a) it's boring or b) it's too easy. 

 

The same arguments apply to FFS, the only difference being that live shiners aren't created by a giant corporation. 

 

Bass tournaments have been placing restrictions on what you can do to catch fish for 40+ years. There'd be nothing categorically different about a restriction on technology. So really the argument should just be about the pros/cons of FFS and unrestricted technology. 

 

I'm curious to see what lure manufacturers think of FFS if it completely takes over. They'll always be shallow fishermen, but if deep livescoping is dominant you are looking at huge swaths of lure categories that become obsolete. Yes other techniques will take their place, but the amount of tackle you use will probably go down by like 70%. 

 

And the top pros try to sell lures they use. If they all are using arigs and a flutter spoon there's only so much of those you can sell.

 

If you only make 50 casts/day you aren't cycling through baits, losing baits, carrying 10 rods etc. 

 

Heck, they even banned ladders to prevent sight fishing among many other obscure things.  

[Deleted account]

29 minutes ago, Fishin Dad said:

Or fans that stop watching people stare at screens all day.  That will change some minds.

 

I don't think eyeballs is a big part of the business model, but I don't follow the business side too closely, I'm sure they will continue to follow their best financial interests, whatever that may be.