Swimbait line question

[Swest18x]

I'm diving into swimbaits and glide baits this year searching for bigger fish. The lake where I'll be fishing them is clear and although there is a limited largemouth population I'll be targeting smallies. I'm guessing the "big" smallies in this lake max out 5 pounds. I'll be using a rod that's rated 1-4 ounces, hardbaits in the 1- 2.5 ounce range, but also some soft baits like a 6 inch magdraft. That would be my biggest bait, or maybe a 6 inch Triple Trout. Braid to very long leader. Probably maxcuarto braid or plain Powerpro. I'm wondering what weight fluoro to run, or any other advice on line. The deal is, I want to go as light as possible on the fluoro because of the clear water. 

 

I posted a similar question on Tacticalbassin's last swimbait video, and actually got a response from Matt that only partially answered my question. Here's my post and his comment for reference. I like the Tactical bassin videos as a newbie because its straight information without the extra content which I dont have time for. But I recognize they're just one source of info/ opinions and there's hundreds of experienced anglers on these boards I always appreciate hearing from. I was especially confused with his response of 40 to 50 braid compared to his earlier comments in the video about running fluoro as light as 10 or 12 pounds for smallies in clear water (50 braid to 12 fluoro??).

 

Thanks in advance for your opinions on this. Since I'm tying leaders my line choice also affects reels, my knots on 15 braid/10 fluoro slip through Daiwa T wings just fine but I'm thinking something like 40 braid/20 fluoro and heavier would limit me to Shimano (I tie a bloodknot).

 

13 hours ago

Hope someone can answer my question. Near the end of the video Matt talks smallmouth, that's my fishery, very clear water. On one specific bait (pistol pete) he mentions really light line, 8, 10, 12 fluoro. I'm probably going to try the Pete, vitallion, 168, gantarel and 6" magdraft braid to LONG fluoro leader. What line size would you all purpose on a dedicated reel (probably a bantam or curado 300) for these baits?

 

 

TacticalBassin13 hours ago

No need to go 300 for these because none of them put a heavy burden on the reel. 200 size with 50 lb braid and tie leaders. Some of the baits would be fine on 40, but not all.

 

 

 

 

[Cbump]

I don’t understand the problem. 50lb braid is pretty standard on a casting reel, especially for swimbaits. 50 braid to 12 leader is not a problem at all. 

[JediAmoeba]

I run 50# braid to leader on almost all of my swimbait setups up to 6oz. 

On a pistol pete or a megabass islide 135 I throw on a mh rod with 30# braid to an 8 or 10 leader - those are basically finesse glides

[Swest18x]

Like I said, I'm a newbie on bigger applications, but thanks for clearing that up. Can I ask what the purpose is of 50 lb braid if you're down to 10 or 12 leader? If the leader would snap first anyways, why such heavier braid? I know there must be a reason I just dont understand the big discrepancy.

 

Also understand I'm a northern guy, the fish I'm catching up here aren't the hogs some of you guys are used to. 

Maybe the heavier braid saves you from breaking off on a backlash?

[GaryH]

Pretty much the same as above. I run 40 lb. Suffix 832 with Seaguar gold label in 8 to 12 lb. Check the line diameters and compare 12 lb. Floro. With 40 lb. Braid. Besides I want my leader to break before my main line.
 

[JediAmoeba]

Braid - 0 stretch, no coils of line laying on the surface. This allows me to impart action to the glide without any delay. It also allows me more accurate casts - I rarely bomb my baits as I cast to pinpoint locations and just let the bait slide into the water without much of a splash.

 

I fish a lot of glides and to me they are all big baits but fished in a "finesse" manner. I am also a northern guy.

[GaryH]

6 minutes ago, Swest18x said:

 

Also understand I'm a northern guy, the fish I'm catching up here aren't the hogs some of you guys are used to. 

Maybe the heavier braid saves you from breaking off on a backlash?

Some big ole smallmouth in Erie. Good luck and show us some pics of the hogs your gonna catch.?

[Swest18x]

33 minutes ago, GaryH said:

Some big ole smallmouth in Erie. Good luck and show us some pics of the hogs your gonna catch.?

I wish. I fish from a canoe so it's the Erie Canal and some of the smaller Finger Lakes for me. 

[gulfcaptain]

Id probably  go 30# braid to 15fc.  I throw the 168 on 30 or 40# and use 15 or 20fc. Clear water here in a lot of the S. Cal lakes. Also tie the Alberto, but when done I put a drop of superglue(then wipe excess off) on the connection. Stays small and  keeps it from possibly coming loose from hundreds of times in and out of the guides 

[FishTank]

20 or 25lb Sunline Defier Armilo. 

[PhishLI]

1 hour ago, Swest18x said:

Maybe the heavier braid saves you from breaking off on a backlash?

That's the idea. You're going to want a long-ish leader with braid though. You're going to backlash if you use it and a short leader, and there's a good chance you'll break off and launch your bait. We're pretty deep into the swimbait game around here, and everyone I know has gone to straight mono or fluoro mainline. Mostly mono though.

 

Check out some of NDYakAngler's vids on YT. He's caught a chit ton of smallies in clear water throwing hardbaits on straight 30lb green Jbraid, so small diameter mono shouldn't upset them at all and will give you zero grief. However, many of these hardbaits come with very beefy trebles. If you're going to go with light line, consider swapping out to lighter trebles. It takes some real oomph to set the heavier ones.

[JediAmoeba]

39 minutes ago, FishTank said:

20 or 25lb Sunline Defier Armilo. 

I hear these comments all the time and I guess maybe if you are fishing some areas but I throw 6 oz glides on 16 or 17# copoly or fluoro depending on the water temps. I think more people than not overpower their glides with line that is too heavy. Sure it works for those dumb, young florida strain bass but northern strain bass that are 5 lbs are probably 7+ years old. 

 

If I am not throwing into any cover I will often throw my 3-4oz glides on 15# fluoro leaders...

 

I have never lost one either

[Darth-Baiter]

the biggest i go is a MagDraft Freestyle 6".  I have done well on anything 14-17 flouro.    i am pushing my rod;s limits so i dont bomb casts.

 

if/when i get a better rod, i will go with Braid.  

[Fishingmickey]

     I am in the same camp as Fishtank.  I think your better off going with a high quality Mono or Fluoro then going braid.  I'd lean towards the mono if it was me. Fluoro hates to be kinked and the knot strength (if it is not a perfectly tied knot) isn't as forgiving as mono.

     The baits your planning on throwing are mostly treble hooked or BIG single hooks? I have casted off into orbit big crankbaits (8XD sized) using 30 and 40# braid.  Braid can be snapped when your heavy lure comes to a sudden stop from either a birds nest or backlash.

     That's my two cents worth.  Good luck with the quest for Jumbo bronzebacks!

FM

[FishTank]

9 hours ago, JediAmoeba said:

I hear these comments all the time and I guess maybe if you are fishing some areas but I throw 6 oz glides on 16 or 17# copoly or fluoro depending on the water temps. I think more people than not overpower their glides with line that is too heavy. Sure it works for those dumb, young florida strain bass but northern strain bass that are 5 lbs are probably 7+ years old. 

 

If I am not throwing into any cover I will often throw my 3-4oz glides on 15# fluoro leaders...

 

I have never lost one either

 

I like this line for its properties, not necessarily its pound strength. I probably have some of the same lines you are referring to on other setups. I use 16lb FC on my deep diving crankbait set up and I have 17lb CXX copoly on another. I throw some big baits on these as well but there is something special about the Defier Armilo.  It feels kind of like a FC but handles more like copoly without the memory.  It's long lasting, thin but strong and it casts well.  I do like braid to leader but not for glide baits or medium swimbaits.

[Tatulatard]

I would use big game mono as a leader.  Flouro knots get beat up and that braid is going to do a number to flouro.  I would only use flouro as a mainline with frequent knot reties.  I also fish very clear water with those same big baits.  I run a few setups with some being straight flouro, straight mono and a braid to mono leader setup.  

[JediAmoeba]

I don't know - I use 50# silent flip braid to a Gamma polyflex 17# copoly leader or a Gamma 16# Edge fluorocarbon leader for everything up to a Deps 250. If I am throwing around a 2 oz glide I put on a 15# Tatsu leader or a 14# Gamma copoly Leader. 

 

If I am running top water/ subsurface cranks I started using PLine topwater copoly in 15# for smaller wakes and 17# for anything up to 6ish ounces.

 

I have used big game, Suffix advance, Izorline xxx, Maxima and they are all...OK, at best imo. I have never lost a bait to a cast-off or a fish because I retie often and check my leaders often - I don't need to lose 300+ dollar baits to the abyss.

[Swest18x]

Jediamoeba, what leader knot do you tie? I use braid to fluoro for everything else and a blood knot is what I use, it's the one knot i can tie good consistently, my near sight sucks for tying complicated knots.

[WRB]

I personally don’t like to use braid with a leader for swimbaits or glides. FC knot strength and impact strength is less then Mono or Copoly line. 

When you backlash a reel using braid the shock impact to the leader knot is high and often results in knot failure. For that reason my line of choice was Sunline Defier Armilo 25# / .016D line for lures between 2 oz to 7 oz. During 5 years never had a knot failure. Where I fished the bass are boat shy  so making a long cast was essential. When loading up a rod to cast 50 to 60+ yards a backlash can be catastrophic. Armilo is extremely good casting line, very smooth and easy to manage, opposite of Braid imo.

Tom

[Dwight Hottle]

7 hours ago, Swest18x said:

Maybe the heavier braid saves you from breaking off on a backlash?

 

You answered your own question. Impact strength is very important when using no stretch line & it takes a minimum of 50lb braid to prevent break offs when you backlash. 

[JediAmoeba]

49 minutes ago, Swest18x said:

Jediamoeba, what leader knot do you tie? I use braid to fluoro for everything else and a blood knot is what I use, it's the one knot i can tie good consistently, my near sight sucks for tying complicated knots.

I tie fg knots at home - on the water I tie a blood knot. If you tighten the knot under water it doesn't fail.

[dodgeguy]

25 lb Sufix advance mono.. Stretch's 10 percent in my tests. Regular mono is 20 to 30 percent. Knot broke at 28 lbs.. 10 feet stretched 12 inch's when knot broke. At lower pressure stretch was much lower.

[WRB]

Suffix Advance 25# is .020 Dia.

Sunline Armilo 25# is .016 Dia.

Tom

[JediAmoeba]

11 minutes ago, WRB said:

Suffix Advance 25# is .020 Dia.

Sunline Armilo 25# is .016 Dia.

Tom

Suffix Advance is one of the thickest and stiffest line I have ever used. A buddy I fish with loves it - I can't stand it.

[MN Fisher]

2 minutes ago, JediAmoeba said:

Suffix Advance is one of the thickest and stiffest line I have ever used. A buddy I fish with loves it - I can't stand it.

I tried some 10# Advance on a reel that previously had 12# YZH....went back to the YZH and trashed the Advance. Despite being thicker, the YZH handled much better than the Advance.