Lure Ferry?

[Swamp Girl]

Tech advances like engines and Spot Lock replace paddle and anchor and FFS replaces finding fish by experience, deduction, and trial and error. How about replacing the skill of accurate casting?

 

The military has long used fire-and-forget technology, so I'm wondering if there were a lure ferry, either a drone or a bitsy boat, that was synced to your FFS and would drop your lure on top of an FFS-located bass or a foot or two away, as you chose, would you use it, thus replacing accurate casting? If not, why not?

 

In short, I'm wondering if there's a point at which there's too much tech. 

[casts_by_fly]

no, it would take forever.  They already make bait boats for things like coarse fishing where you want a soft bait to be at 70 yards but throwing it that far would throw it off the line.  I've seen guys use similar RC boats to deliver big baits past the breaklines in the surf (200 yards) for shark fishing.  It would take forever for your bait to get out there though even if you used a drone.  By the time you see it on the graph, hook up to the ferry, fly it out there, and drop it I could have 3 casts to the same fish which has probably moved in the time you've gotten the lure there.  

[A-Jay]

When the body of water I am fishing is deeper than my canoe paddle length, then it really does help me to have some electronic assistance.

And considering how I have spent the past several days, I will say no.

Too much is never enough.

?

A-Jay 

[gim]

37 minutes ago, ol'crickety said:

How about replacing the skill of accurate casting?

There are a few situations where something like a drone simply isn't going to work for replacing precision casting.

 

1. Under docks

2. Under trees/overhanging branches

 

I find myself needing to be very accurate in these situations, and the target is about the size of a dinner plate, with over hanging obstructions.

[Team9nine]

21 minutes ago, ol'crickety said:

In short, I'm wondering if there's a point at which there's too much tech. 

Yes, there is, and we’ve already reached it…or exceeded it, IMHO. If cast nets were legal for gamefish and allowed in tourneys, you can bet some pro would use it, probably in combination with his FFS (search YT), and have his name all over it. Have you seen the videos where they catch panfish off beds using drones (no rod/reel)? Or the (mostly saltwater) versions using drones to scout and deliver your bait to certain spots/fish, typically farther than you could ever cast?

 

Individuals can ultimately choose to do whatever they’d like within the law, but I’d really like to see the tournament organizations step up and place limits on technology.

[gim]

20 minutes ago, Team9nine said:

but I’d really like to see the tournament organizations step up and place limits on technology.

Funny you say that.  The PMTT (Professional Muskie Tournament Trail) did exactly that last July when a one of the participants in Eagle Lake, WI decided to mount 8 livescope units on his boat.  They simply puttered around the lake scanning for muskies, and then pestered them into biting with repeated casts of various lures.

 

The result was that team caught 8 muskies in one day, and 3 more the next, destroying the competition by a wide margin.  The response: live units banned from every boat for the rest of the season's circuit.  TBD what the PMTT will do this upcoming season.  I'd be fine with one unit per boat or something like that.  An outright ban seems like a bit of a knee-jerk reaction.

[AlabamaSpothunter]

Smells like Fly Fishing up in here ?

 

I get the argument though in all seriousness, but as long as I've been alive, Bass fishing has been vastly more focused on advancement rather than tradition.

 

The speed at which Bass fishing advances has been breakneck speed for decades and decades.  

 

Imagine handing a guy in the 80s a Zillion on a Conquest.    Where do you draw the line, personally speaking the only line I draw is ethically or morally in regard to fish health.    I might have to stop using the A-Rig if I keep snagging fish accidentally with it.......but not because it harnesses decades of learned Bass behavior in order to catch multiple fish on a single cast which is why tourneys ban them I'd imagine.  

 

All I know is that Bass adapt and learn at an even faster level, there is no doubt in my mind that these fish will just keep changing their behavior and adapting to Bass fishing tactics.   They've been doing it brilliantly for as long as the sport has existed.  

 

It's a good thread Katie, lots of room for debate and discussion.   

[gim]

9 minutes ago, AlabamaSpothunter said:

but not because it harnesses decades of learned Bass behavior in order to catch multiple fish on a single cast which is why tourneys ban them I'd imagine.  

Can't use them here in MN if they have more than one with a hook.  The rest have to be "decoys" without a hook.  So its literally impossible to catch more than one fish already.

[Swamp Girl]

I agree, Alex, that all of us use technology. My rods and reels are high tech. My canoe is Kevlar. My paddle is carbon. 

 

Then I think about MLB and the home run derby of Mark McGwire, Alex Rodriguez, Barry Bonds, and Sammy Sosa. None are in the Hall of Fame and likely never will be. They all have invisible asterisks beside their numbers. For most people, 755 (Aaron) > 762 (Bonds) and not a little greater, but a lot greater because Bonds and the others swung with high tech chemistry. Same with Lance Armstrong, who was dethroned.

 

Now, fishing is nowhere near shunning high tech catches, but Gimruis's story about the Professional Muskie Tournament Trail tournament suggests that I'm not the only one wondering if there should be a cutoff or if there's a coming cutoff. 

 

I just know that I spend too much time staring at screens at home and I don't want to be staring at yet another screen when I'm fishing, even though I enjoy Alex's still shots of bass chewing on bait balls. 

 

Heck, George Perry caught a 22 lb. 4 oz. bass while meat fishing. He probably had a short steel rod and a primitive casting reel. Imagine that moment.

 

Contrast that with a YouTuber I enjoy, Kristine Fischer, who joyfully fishes from a kayak, but it bristles with technology.

 

Of course, everything comes with a cost. You all know that I like to fish water that has no place to launch a trailered boat. I don't think Kristine could even launch her kayak at most of the water I fish. So, I should be thankful for the tech that keeps my ponds lonesome. 

 

 

 

[Choporoz]

1 hour ago, gimruis said:

There are a few situations where something like a drone simply isn't going to work for replacing precision casting.

 

1. Under docks

2. Under trees/overhanging branches

 

I find myself needing to be very accurate in these situations, and the target is about the size of a dinner plate, with over hanging obstructions.

Man, I don't know....I don't find it hard to imagine electronic assistance to putting lure on target anywhere. 

 

1 hour ago, Team9nine said:

Yes, there is, and we’ve already reached it…or exceeded it, IMHO. If cast nets were legal for gamefish and allowed in tourneys, you can bet some pro would use it, probably in combination with his FFS (search YT), and have his name all over it. Have you seen the videos where they catch panfish off beds using drones (no rod/reel)? Or the (mostly saltwater) versions using drones to scout and deliver your bait to certain spots/fish, typically farther than you could ever cast?

 

Individuals can ultimately choose to do whatever they’d like within the law, but I’d really like to see the tournament organizations step up and place limits on technology.

Agreed.  Of course there has to be limitations considered and adopted. Otherwise, five years from now you might be able to catch any bass you want in any lake in the country without leaving your couch.

[AlabamaSpothunter]

10 minutes ago, ol'crickety said:

I agree, Alex, that all of us use technology. My rods and reels are high tech. My canoe is Kevlar. My paddle is carbon. 

 

Then I think about MLB and the home run derby of Mark McGwire, Alex Rodriguez, Barry Bonds, and Sammy Sosa. None are in the Hall of Fame and likely never will be. They all have invisible asterisks beside their numbers. For most people, 755 (Aaron) > 762 (Bonds) and not a little greater, but a lot greater because Bonds and the others swung with high tech chemistry. Same with Lance Armstrong, who was dethroned.

 

Now, fishing is nowhere near shunning high tech catches, but Gimruis's story about the Professional Muskie Tournament Trail tournament suggests that I'm not the only one wondering if there should be a cutoff or if there's a coming cutoff. 

 

I just know that I spend too much time staring at screens at home and I don't want to be staring at yet another screen when I'm fishing, even though I enjoy Alex's still shots of bass chewing on bait balls. 

 

Heck, George Perry caught a 22 lb. 4 oz. bass while meat fishing. He probably had a short steel rod and a primitive casting reel. Imagine that moment.

 

Contrast that with a YouTuber I enjoy, Kristine Fischer, who joyfully fishes from a kayak, but it bristles with technology.

 

Of course, everything comes with a cost. You all know that I like to fish water that has no place to launch a trailered boat. I don't think Kristine could even launch her kayak at most of the water I fish. So, I should be thankful for the tech that keeps my ponds lonesome. 

 

 

 

That's crazy you bring up Kristine Fischer, I was watching a video of her catching a monster and I thought about you.    Glad you already have found her and follow her content.

 

Seems to be an amazing angler.   Her kayak ain't Spartan though ?

 

 

[Swamp Girl]

@AlabamaSpothunter I like her joy when she fishes. She's like you, Alex, celebrating the bass.

 

20 minutes ago, Choporoz said:

Otherwise, five years from now you might be able to catch any bass you want in any lake in the country without leaving your couch.

 

I don't think ^this^ is fanciful. I think a drone boat with cameras, FFS, radar, Garmin, and a mechanical caster could find and catch fish one day and the "fisher," like a drone "pilot" in a trailer in Nevada, could fish from a couch. 

[GaryH]

I’m more in the boat of if it’s Legal and Ethical then I have no problem with whatever technology others use.  I personally have mega 360 and ffs which I definitely use on the big waters I fish along with unknown lakes. With that said I also fish lakes that I know without ever turning on any of my birds just for the pleasure of fishing and drifting with the current. 

2 hours ago, ol'crickety said:

Tech advances like engines and Spot Lock replace paddle and anchor and FFS replaces finding fish by experience, deduction, and trial and error. How about replacing the skill of accurate casting?

 

The military has long used fire-and-forget technology, so I'm wondering if there were a lure ferry, either a drone or a bitsy boat, that was synced to your FFS and would drop your lure on top of an FFS-located bass or a foot or two away, as you chose, would you use it, thus replacing accurate casting? If not, why not?

 

In short, I'm wondering if there's a point at which there's too much tech. 

Interesting question to ponder 

[gim]

7 minutes ago, GaryH said:

I’m more in the boat of if it’s Legal and Ethical then I have no problem with whatever technology others use.

I fall along the same lines, but where exactly that line is may be different.  Do you think that mounting 8 units on your boat is "ethical" even when its legal?  To me that seems completely ridiculous beyond ethics because its currently legal, even in a bass tournament.

 

The other item to consider here is when the target is intended for harvest or for release.  Mounting 8 units to aid in catching muskies for a full catch and release tournament is completely different than dropping down 8 live units through the ice to find a school of slab crappies that are going to be kept.  Most bass anglers are not doing it with the intention of keeping them, so the actual population is not being affected, even if they are becoming harder to catch.  Its not hard to imagine some species like slab crappies being demolished here in the winter when there's thousands of ice anglers out there all using multiple live sonar units to find, catch, and harvest them.

[Swamp Girl]

Following up on Gimruis's post, side scanning sonar in the ocean has left the fish no place to hide. Here in Maine, we once fished for cod. They're gone and after decades of hoping they'd return, they're not rebooting. It's the same with shrimp as they've closed Maine to shrimp fishing because there are so few to be caught. Same with commercially fishing for halibut.

 

We are not a foresightful species. We have a long history of killing off the things we love. Our skies used to blacken with passenger pigeons, but yesterday's technology and gluttony ended them. 

[Logan S]

My FFS must be broken, it never tells me ahead of time where I can find the fish.  I always have to find my own spots or areas and then I actually have to look at the screen and scan around to see if there are any fish there...To make matters worse, when I finally do find some fish, It's not guiding them to my lure and then it's also not sending the signal to the fish that makes them actually bite.  

 

What setting do I need to change for the FFS find all of the best locations, find the fish, guide them to my bait, and make them bite for me so I don't have to waste time doing all of this on my own.  Seems like kind of a waste to me...But lots of other people have it on their boats, so you know, it's against the rules if I don't have it on mine too...

 

Don't get me started on my lousy maps, spot lock, and shallow water anchors....None of them are pulling their weight either....It's almost like I'm supposed to actually know something about bass in order to catch them.

 

??

[Choporoz]

16 minutes ago, Logan S said:

My FFS must be broken, it never tells me ahead of time where I can find the fish.  I always have to find my own spots or areas.

Not yet.  Wait until some engineer from Lowrance watches Minority Report again.....and then produces little spider minnows, each with FFS.  ?

[12poundbass]

8 hours ago, A-Jay said:

And considering how I have spent the past several days, I will say no.

You pulled the trigger? 

[WIGuide]

The beauty of fishing is there is no right or wrong way to do it, but rather catering it to your own enjoyment. If you don't like using technology, there's no need to use it, if you want to load your vessel up with it go right ahead.

 

Saying that using technology takes the skill out of finding or catching bass is a statement I'd have to disagree with. First of all, you need to have the skill of actually using your electronics and understanding what you're seeing. There are a lot of people out there that spend a crap ton of money on electronics and have no clue how to use them and don't take the time to learn. For those that do take the time to learn what they're doing, side imaging sonar lets them see cover, structure, and fish deeper than what we can with our naked eyes. Does that mean an angler using the technology of prescription lenses or polarized lenses is also taking the skill out of fishing as they can see things underwater they wouldn't be able to without those lenses?

 

Having anchor lock and power poles are a convenient feature that allows me to stay within casting distance of a school of fish, but they just as easily hold me within casting distance of nothing but dead water. Technology makes it easier, more convenient, and cleaner than carrying an anchor, but achieves the same result. I'm pretty sure nobody has called out someone with a rope and cinder block as someone with less fishing skill because they can stay in one spot. 

 

Lastly with the hot button topic of forward facing sonar, there seems to be this persona that if you can see them on a screen you're guaranteed to be able to catch them and it takes skill out of any sort of presentation. If this was the case, wouldn't every angler using it catch piles more fish than anyone else? If that's the case, any tournament angler using any sort of FF sonar should have no issues catching a limit, however looking at the results from the Elite Series, who are among some of the best bass anglers on the planet, that's not the case. I just ran the numbers from their tournament on the Mississippi River last year (because I know how tremendous of a fishery it is) and only about 86% of the anglers caught a limit on the first day, and that dropped down to about 63% on day 2. Then I checked Lake Oahe since it's a lake that would let FF shine and again only about 86% of anglers caught a limit the first day and about 74% on the second. As with all electronics there is a learning curve with FF sonar, and even when you're proficient, again it's not guaranteed success. Anyone who's fished for bedding fish can most certainly attest. After you've spent over an hour on a fish and thrown everything under the son at it you realize just how much time you wasted on a fish. Now instead of that just happening during the spawn it could happen all year long. 

 

I guess that's a round about way to answer your question that I don't think we've reached a point where technology has gone too far, maybe someday, but not yet. It also does not replace the skills of finding fish either. In the right hands it can speed up the process, but doesn't replace it.  About the auto bait placement system... that's not something I'd buy into as I can already do that myself without assistance, but it might be fun to have a little remote control boat to drive around when I can't buy a bite! haha

[A-Jay]

16 minutes ago, 12poundbass said:

You pulled the trigger? 

Still to early.

R & D in progress.

A-Jay

[12poundbass]

39 minutes ago, A-Jay said:

Still to early.

R & D in progress.

A-Jay

Gotcha. I completely misread your post. I read, considering how MUCH I spent the past several days. 
 

I may have jumped the gun a tad. ?

[A-Jay]

6 minutes ago, 12poundbass said:

Gotcha. I completely misread your post. I read, considering how MUCH I spent the past several days. 
 

I may have jumped the gun a tad. ?

pm sent 

[Bankbeater]

Being sick a couple of weeks ago I was able to watch a lot of tournament videos.  These were on the local level and just not bass tournaments either.  The one thing I kept noticing was that it wasn't technology that helped the winner, it was knowing the water, and knowing how to fish the conditions.

 

[TnRiver46]

On 1/31/2023 at 6:36 PM, WIGuide said:

. I'm pretty sure nobody has called out someone with a rope and cinder block as someone with less fishing skill because they can stay in one spot. 

I get called out every single time my cinder block makes it into a fish picture on here……. Haha