Diawa 150 tatula yearly service. Come on man

[Mbirdsley]

So I’m kinda miffed at this and I know 95% of people will never notice or care.  I’m tearing down my diawa 150 for it’s yearly cleaning and I’ll super tune it. I bought the reel last year so it’s the first time I’ve done it on this reel.  
 

First thing is that it doesn’t have full carbon drag washers in the drag stack.  Drag washer #79 ( top one)  is carbontex or carbontex type washer.  I guess it would be a semi carbon drag. However, the bottom one #77 is not.  It’s red in color.  I don’t have the drag washers on hand so I’ll orders those. 
 

2nd issue is in the worm gear.  It has spacers instead of bearings #59 and #65. I already have the bearings on hand. I’ve had $100 reels that have bearings ( atleast one ) here supporting the worm shaft. 
 

that’s 2 glaring things I’ve noticed and I don’t consider myself a reel professional.  I just play one and stayed at a holiday in.  It’s the newer version of the tatula. This was a $180 reel.  $100 reel sure what ever.   I know they are easy fixes. I just kinda expected more at the $180 price point. I’m sure this isn’t just diawa doing this. 
 

1st pic drag washers. 
 

2nd picture. The bearings I’m putting in on the left the spacers on the right 
 

 

[ska4fun]

And are fully right in your complaints. We could easily say it was for giving a competitive price range for the reel, but it's in the pricier side of things. We need to be more conscious and demanding over gear quality. Do you know the red drag washer material?

[iabass8]

All of those parts are standard on tatulas. Tatulas , steez A /w magseal, zillion Gs dont come with levelwind bearings and the red washer is a clear plastic emcompassed by a drag washer, on most new mid+ tier reels. The stand alone red is common place on tatulas and is sprinkled in here and there on others. 

[Tatulatard]

Also the tatula 150 is an older daiwa reel design. It's a 2013 reel that is pretty much unchanged today.  The only thing I find disappointing is that in 10 years they only managed to add a longer handle and new paint.  I would like a double supported pinion in what they call an "HD tatula" these days.

http://www.tackletour.com/reviewdaiwatatula.html

[ska4fun]

1 hour ago, Tatulatard said:

Also the tatula 150 is an older daiwa reel design. It's a 2013 reel that is pretty much unchanged today.  The only thing I fond disappointing is that in 10 years they only managed to add a longer handle and new paint.  I would like a double supported pinion in what they call an "HD tatula" these days.

http://www.tackletour.com/reviewdaiwatatula.html

 

The CT frame is more than 30 yr old...

[redmeansdistortion]

The fiber washer you are seeing is pretty standard for Daiwa.  Even my Millionaires and Alphas have them.  They are rigid so there should be little worry about compression like you'd get from a Teflon, graphite, or felt washer.  I've pulled apart 40+ year old ABU Cardinals which use the same style of washer and they are still perfectly fine even after decades of heavy use.  The people engineering these reels have to design something that is both smooth and durable.  They are looking for a happy medium between the two.

[Tatulatard]

15 minutes ago, ska4fun said:

 

The CT frame is more than 30 yr old...

The tatula ct frame was in response to the complaints of the tatula being too wide and is from around 2016 I believe.  They have since thrown "ct" on a number or reels.  Maybe the term goes back even further and daiwa is recycling registered names.  

[ska4fun]

3 hours ago, Tatulatard said:

The tatula ct frame was in response to the complaints of the tatula being too wide and is from around 2016 I believe.  They have since thrown "ct" on a number or reels.  Maybe the term goes back even further and daiwa is recycling registered names.  

It's way older. It first appeared in Japan in the mid-90's.  I'm talking about the CT from the Tatula CT. Another older one is the 103 frame.

[garroyo130]

10 hours ago, Mbirdsley said:

2nd issue is in the worm gear.  It has spacers instead of bearings #59 and #65. I already have the bearings on hand. I’ve had $100 reels that have bearings ( atleast one ) here supporting the worm shaft. 

 

Once upon a time I used to closely examine reels and figure out how I, a peasant, could improve on the tried and true, professionally engineered designs. One of the first things I noticed was that bushing on the worm gear. I figured, surely a bearing is better. I swapped those out ... there was no change in performance with the added pain of having something else that will have to be maintained. Lots of water gets into that area and I've gone back to bushings. I may be wrong but I believe there are bushings there all the way up to premium Shimanos as well. 

 

As for the drag, I would say its adequate. Is carbon better? Possibly at the extreme ranges but the standard drag is fairly linear and I have never seen the need for a smoother drag at extremely low or high settings. 

[Tatulatard]

14 minutes ago, garroyo130 said:

 

Once upon a time I used to closely examine reels and figure out how I, a peasant, could improve on the tried and true, professionally engineered designs. One of the first things I noticed was that bushing on the worm gear. I figured, surely a bearing is better. I swapped those out ... there was no change in performance with the added pain of having something else that will have to be maintained. Lots of water gets into that area and I've gone back to bushings. I may be wrong but I believe there are bushings there all the way up to premium Shimanos as well. 

 

As for the drag, I would say its adequate. Is carbon better? Possibly at the extreme ranges but the standard drag is fairly linear and I have never seen the need for a smoother drag at extremely low or high settings. 

Same.  Crunchy and raspy bearings are a pain to locate and deal with.  I prefer to keep my bearing count to a minimum on my workhorse reels.  On the fancy stuff I can tolerate more preventative maintenance.  A tatula isn't a street.  It just needs to work.

[newapti5]

6 hours ago, garroyo130 said:

 

Once upon a time I used to closely examine reels and figure out how I, a peasant, could improve on the tried and true, professionally engineered designs. One of the first things I noticed was that bushing on the worm gear. I figured, surely a bearing is better. I swapped those out ... there was no change in performance with the added pain of having something else that will have to be maintained. Lots of water gets into that area and I've gone back to bushings. I may be wrong but I believe there are bushings there all the way up to premium Shimanos as well. 

 

As for the drag, I would say its adequate. Is carbon better? Possibly at the extreme ranges but the standard drag is fairly linear and I have never seen the need for a smoother drag at extremely low or high settings. 

 

Yep. IMO level bearings may improve smoothness a little bit in heavy duty situation, but in most cases, that small improvement is almost neglectable in daily fishing.  

 

What I'd like to see improvement is this little part in Tatula reels (and some other reels), the support for pinion yoke. The material it uses, the small size of it, and the tiny screws that fix it to the frame, all make that part not secure enough. Once it moves a little, the alignment of the pinion gear will be affected since the pinion gear is not supported by dual bearings.  In the old Alphas frame and TD-Z fame, even with dual support pinion gear, that little part is made of metal, and riveted to the frame. It's about as secure as it can be.  IMO this is another proof that Daiwa is going backward to save reel weight and cost. 

 

 

[Tatulatard]

38 minutes ago, newapti5 said:

 

Yep. IMO level bearings may improve smoothness a little bit in heavy duty situation, but in most cases, that small improvement is almost neglectable in daily fishing.  

 

What I'd like to see improvement is this little part in Tatula reels (and some other reels), the support for pinion yoke. The material it uses, the small size of it, and the tiny screws that fix it to the frame, all make that part not secure enough. Once it moves a little, the alignment of the pinion gear will be affected since the pinion gear is not supported by dual bearings.  In the old Alpha frame and TD-Z fame, even with dual support pinion gear, that little part is made of metal, and riveted to the frame. It's about as secure as it can be.  IMO this is another proof that Daiwa is going backward to save reel weight and cost. 

 

 

I also like how some of their older reels had screws that threaded into the top of the posts through an aluminum side plate for double support on the posts.  Those things were not moving. 

[ska4fun]

55 minutes ago, newapti5 said:

 

Yep. IMO level bearings may improve smoothness a little bit in heavy duty situation, but in most cases, that small improvement is almost neglectable in daily fishing.  

 

What I'd like to see improvement is this little part in Tatula reels (and some other reels), the support for pinion yoke. The material it uses, the small size of it, and the tiny screws that fix it to the frame, all make that part not secure enough. Once it moves a little, the alignment of the pinion gear will be affected since the pinion gear is not supported by dual bearings.  In the old Alpha frame and TD-Z fame, even with dual support pinion gear, that little part is made of metal, and riveted to the frame. It's about as secure as it can be.  IMO this is another proof that Daiwa is going backward to save reel weight and cost. 

 

 

Not only that, it is making it harder for the enthusiast user to maintain his own reels. The magsealed ***, using resin to difficult access to screws...

[garroyo130]

1 hour ago, newapti5 said:

In the old Alpha frame and TD-Z fame, even with dual support pinion gear, that little part is made of metal, and riveted to the frame. 

 

 

The part is still made out of metal, but I agree it would be better if it were rivetted or had less play. 

[Mbirdsley]

I replaced the bushing in my slx and I could feel the difference.   This reel is used for crank fish up 5xd’s.

 

I guess I don’t know where they come up with charging  the extra 80 bucks over a doyo reel from Korea  .  If okuma can put full carbontex drag washers in a $45 dollar trolling reel made in china .  Why can’t diawa put $5 worth of carbon Tex washers in a $180 reel made in Thailand. 
 

I’ve worked with enough engineers in the auto industry.  They are not mythical creatures.  They have a job like everyone else.   Some are very very good, some are average, and some are bad at what they do.  

[redmeansdistortion]

Carbon fiber sheeting is cheap, I keep stock of various thicknesses in 0.5mm, 0.7mm, and 1mm.  Those 3 will cover just about any reel.

[ska4fun]

6 minutes ago, Mbirdsley said:

I replaced the bushing in my slx and I could feel the difference.   This reel is used for crank fish up 5xd’s.

 

I guess I don’t know where they come up with charging  the extra 80 bucks over a doyo reel from Korea  .  If okuma can put full carbontex drag washers in a $45 dollar trolling reel made in china .  Why can’t diawa put $5 worth of carbon Tex washers in a $180 reel made in Thailand. 
 

I’ve worked with enough engineers in the auto industry.  They are not mythical creatures.  They have a job like everyone else.   Some are very very good, some are average, and some are bad at what they do.  

Acutally which material makes the drag in OP reel?

[Bankc]

See, now I'm on the opposite end of the fence.  I'm always getting mad at how companies want to throw a million ball bearings into a reel, twenty layers of carbon fiber drag, all metal frame, and all of the other marketing mumbo jumbo, but won't spend any effort towards the engineering and tolerances of the darn thing to actually make it a good reel!  I can't stand it when companies let their marketing department do all of the engineering.  Don't build it to sell.  Build it to work!

[waymont]

What ever the design or parts used in a Tatula 150 they are rock solid and super smooth and powerful reels. I have very well  used with big baits 150 that’s from the year they came out that is as smooth as it was when new.

that’s the important stuff.

[ska4fun]

Just now, Bankc said:

See, now I'm on the opposite end of the fence.  I'm always getting mad at how companies want to throw a million ball bearings into a reel, twenty layers of carbon fiber drag, all metal frame, and all of the other marketing mumbo jumbo, but won't spend any effort towards nailing down the tolerances of the darn thing to actually make it a good reel!  I can't stand it when companies let their marketing department do all of the engineering.  

And I can't stand the fanboys who defend such instances, it's just unbelievable and pathetic, in the same proportion.

[waymont]

7 minutes ago, ska4fun said:

And I can't stand the fanboys who defend such instances, it's just unbelievable and pathetic, in the same proportion.

Pathetic? Sheesh

[ska4fun]

3 minutes ago, waymont said:

Pathetic? Sheesh

Fanboysm itself is pathetic.

[waymont]

9 minutes ago, ska4fun said:

Fanboysm itself is pathetic.

We’re talking about people liking fishing reel companies right?

I don’t see how anyone really really liking a company can be pathetic.

I can however see the humor in it.

 

[ska4fun]

11 minutes ago, waymont said:

We’re talking about people liking fishing reel companies right?

I don’t see how anyone really really liking a company can be pathetic.

I can however see the humor in it.

 

No. We are talking about people making excuses for companies lowering quality on fishing gear. Liking don't equate to downplay bad quality control pratices.

[waymont]

21 minutes ago, ska4fun said:

No. We are talking about people making excuses for companies lowering quality on fishing gear. Liking don't equate to downplay bad quality control pratices.

I don’t know of people doing this.

I do know people on BR complain about everything.