Separate Live Scope Pole Mount

[Blue Raider Bob]

What are your opinions on a separate FFS pole mount? I currently use my trolling motor shaft for my FFS transducer but I wanted your opinions...pro's and con's. It seems that it would just be another thing in the way, but, it would create a dedicated shaft to allow viewing in different directions from the trolling motor direction. I mainly fish rivers where my trolling motor is nearly always facing upstream to slow drift.

Any thoughts?

Thanks

[Tennessee Boy]

In November, I installed the Humminbird Target Lock on my Ultrex trolling motor.  This allows me to control Mega Live using a foot pedal remote, a hand remote, or my fish finder. It also has a setting where it will point in the same direction as the trolling motor. It has some great features, such as the ability to aim it separately from the trolling motor and use spot lock and FFS at the same time.  It also has some disadvantages. It turns a little slower than the trolling motor and is a little harder to control with the remotes. Another issue I have encountered is that when I point it straight out to the left side, the trolling motor partially blocks the FFS beam, causing a lot of interference. I have found a partial work around to this problem and I’m looking at some possible solutions. The Target Lock is attached to my Ultrex trolling motor along with a Mega 360 transducer, making the trolling motor very heavy. I estimate it takes about 25 lbs of force to pull it out of the water. I hope MinnKota will sell a replacement lift assist gas spring that will account for the extra weight.
 

Overall, I like the Target Lock, but I can’t say I love it.

[Jig Man]

I have to have a separate one because of my Ulterra trolling motor.  It is kind of a pain.

[TOXIC]

It sure limits the view if you use spot lock and it mounted to the TM shaft.  That’s the problem we have seen.  Fishing wind and rivers, we use spot lock a bunch.  Most of the serious users have a separate mount and I understand why.  

[Dogface]

28 minutes ago, Tennessee Boy said:

The Target Lock is attached to my Ultrex trolling motor along with a Mega 360 transducer, making the trolling motor very heavy.

I don't want to hijack the thread but I have a few related questions so I hope Blue Raider won't mind. 

 

I just began looking at the 360 Imaging and the FFS and I'm trying to get an idea about what is involved and the cost.  

 

Is the weight a problem because of the 360 transducer or the Target Lock? How heavy are the 360 and the FFS transducers? 

 

Thanks

 

 

[Blue Raider Bob]

8 minutes ago, Dogface said:

I don't want to hijack the thread but I have a few related questions so I hope Blue Raider won't mind. 

 

I just began looking at the 360 Imaging and the FFS and I'm trying to get an idea about what is involved and the cost.  

 

Is the weight a problem because of the 360 transducer or the Target Lock? How heavy are the 360 and the FFS transducers? 

 

Thanks

 

 

No problem at all Dogface, the more questions we can put out there, the more answers we can use. I can't help with the 360 because I am using Garmin Livescope. I hope your question can be answered as well.

38 minutes ago, Jig Man said:

I have to have a separate one because of my Ulterra trolling motor.  It is kind of a pain.

Do you use a separate homemade shaft or did you get one made just for your application?

[Tennessee Boy]

24 minutes ago, Dogface said:

Is the weight a problem because of the 360 transducer or the Target Lock? How heavy are the 360 and the FFS transducers? 

None of it alone is that heavy.  According to Amazon,  360 weights 13 lbs.  (I'm sure that's the box and everything in it) and target lock weights 20 lbs.  Then there is a separate mounting bracket that you have to buy if you have 360 and Live.  The trolling motor is pretty heavy to start with so it all adds up.  It's nothing I can't handle but it's heavy.  You can't just reach down a grab the cord with two fingers.  You have to work at it a little. 

 

Breaking news:  I just checked the web and Minn Kota does sell a mount to help with the weight problem.  It's an entirely new mount,  not just a gas spring and cost $450.  

 

https://minnkotamotors.johnsonoutdoors.com/accessories/trolling-motor/mega-live-targetlock-and-mega-360-ultrex-accessory-mount-80lb-45

[AlabamaSpothunter]

Dang Bob, didn't know you had FFS.   Add it to the list of stuff I'm jealous over, right behind rural property, and a pond ?

 

How do you like it?  Have you caught fish because of it? 

[Blue Raider Bob]

On 1/27/2023 at 4:20 PM, AlabamaSpothunter said:

Dang Bob, didn't know you had FFS.   Add it to the list of stuff I'm jealous over, right behind rural property, and a pond ?

 

How do you like it?  Have you caught fish because of it? 

I enjoy the FFS to the point where I would sorely miss it if I didn't have it. Kind of like "Air conditioning"! Since I river fish, I do not utilize it's capabilities like I should. What I mean by that is, I am always facing upriver so my transducer is always facing upriver, so I'm only viewing what is in front of me most times. Where it excels for me is when I am drifting downriver, the structure is clearly visible under and in front of the boat as I pass over. I see stumps, rocks, laydowns, ect. that I didn't know existed until the drift. I also see schools of baitfish as well as schools, and individual other fish. Sometimes I am in awe of what I see under the boat. When I drift into eddy water that removes me from current, I can move trolling motor shaft to scan 360. Then I am able to target fish visible on the screen as well as follow the direction the schools move. Case in point was Saturday. The bass were really slow but I found a school on sonar in a eddy area and caught a White bass on a small A-rig. Put down the rod, picked up an ultra-light with a Mepps Aglia, and proceeded to catch thirteen White Bass from that school. So an answer to your question is definitely I have caught fish because of it.

[AlabamaSpothunter]

9 minutes ago, Blue Raider Bob said:

I enjoy the FFS to the point where I would sorely miss it if I didn't have it. Kind of like "Air conditioning"! Since I river fish, I do not utilize it's capabilities like I should. What I mean by that is, I am always facing upriver so my transducer is always facing upriver, so I'm only viewing what is in front of me most times. Where it excels for me is when I am drifting downriver, the structure is clearly visible under and in front of the boat as I pass over. I see stumps, rocks, laydowns, ect. that I didn't know existed until the drift. I also see schools of baitfish as well as schools, and individual other fish. Sometimes I am in awe of what I see under the boat. When I drift into eddy water that removes me from current, I can move trolling motor shaft to scan 360. Then I am able to target fish visible on the screen as well as follow the direction the schools move. Case in point was Saturday. The bass were really slow but I found a school on sonar in a eddy area and caught a White bass on a small A-rig. Put down the rod, picked up an ultra-light with a Mepps Aglia, and proceeded to catch thirteen White Bass from that school. So an answer to your question is definitely I have caught fish because of it.

That's fantastic, and a great reply, thanks!

 

Sounds like playing the best video game while also fishing.    Not sure when it will happen, but FFS is at the very top of my list.    Just the amount of knowledge one can learn about fish's behavior is incredible.   

 

To be able to guide my baits just above cover, and to be able to evaluate a fish's reaction to a bait seems priceless, the first part might save me in cost baits alone to justify the cost.   

 

Making it work on a river is even more impressive to be sure.   

[Blue Raider Bob]

1 hour ago, AlabamaSpothunter said:

That's fantastic, and a great reply, thanks!

 

Sounds like playing the best video game while also fishing.    Not sure when it will happen, but FFS is at the very top of my list.    Just the amount of knowledge one can learn about fish's behavior is incredible.   

 

To be able to guide my baits just above cover, and to be able to evaluate a fish's reaction to a bait seems priceless, the first part might save me in cost baits alone to justify the cost.   

 

Making it work on a river is even more impressive to be sure.   

When crappie fishing before my Smallmouth addiction, I used to lower a jig into the visible crappie and actually watch fish approach, then inhale my jig. I actually felt the tug the moment the fish and the jig on display merged! I have done the same with schoolie Spots. I've dropped a ned right into a school visible on Livescope and hooked Spots seen rising on screen to eat lure. It is rarely this easy but you can view fish realtime. In my opinion, Livescope helps the Crappie fisherman much more than the Bass fisherman. Also in prospective mode, you can actually see Bluegill beds on the bottom. They show up as a group of depressions. It is video game fishing in a way but most important, it allows you to bypass empty water that is bereft of bait to concentrate on more productive areas. With that said, personally I do not search for baitfish. I drift with the river and it's hit or miss because I don't have to catch fish for a living, or the table, and the Smallies don't seem to school anyway. They seem to be scattered up and down the river.

[AlabamaSpothunter]

11 minutes ago, Blue Raider Bob said:

When crappie fishing before my Smallmouth addiction, I used to lower a jig into the visible crappie and actually watch fish approach, then inhale my jig. I actually felt the tug the moment the fish and the jig on display merged! I have done the same with schoolie Spots. I've dropped a ned right into a school visible on Livescope and hooked Spots seen rising on screen to eat lure. It is rarely this easy but you can view fish realtime. In my opinion, Livescope helps the Crappie fisherman much more than the Bass fisherman. Also in prospective mode, you can actually see Bluegill beds on the bottom. They show up as a group of depressions. It is video game fishing in a way but most important, it allows you to bypass empty water that is bereft of bait to concentrate on more productive areas. With that said, personally I do not search for baitfish. I drift with the river and it's hit or miss because I don't have to catch fish for a living, or the table, and the Smallies don't seem to school anyway. They seem to be scattered up and down the river.

Man that sounds so incredibly cool, and useful!   Great information Bob!

 

I was listening to a Josh Jones interview and he said it was referred to as Crappie Scope in the beginning, and I've heard exactly what you said, it's really effective for Crappie.   Jones started out on Crappie, but now says the dudes using it on the pro level have exceeded his abilities with regards to Crappie.   

 

I'm like you, I'm not buying it to stay competitive or to feed myself, I just want it because it's one of the coolest big boy toys I know of, right up there with Gen III Night Vision or FLIR optics.   Both of those things open up a part of the world we otherwise couldn't see.   The learning curve associated with it sounds super fun as well.    Making it your own, like how you did, how Jones did, etc.  

[Blue Raider Bob]

9 minutes ago, AlabamaSpothunter said:

Man that sounds so incredibly cool, and useful!   Great information Bob!

 

I was listening to a Josh Jones interview and he said it was referred to as Crappie Scope in the beginning, and I've heard exactly what you said, it's really effective for Crappie.   Jones started out on Crappie, but now says the dudes using it on the pro level have exceeded his abilities with regards to Crappie.   

 

I'm like you, I'm not buying it to stay competitive or to feed myself, I just want it because it's one of the coolest big boy toys I know of, right up there with Gen III Night Vision or FLIR optics.   Both of those things open up a part of the world we otherwise couldn't see.   The learning curve associated with it sounds super fun as well.    Making it your own, like how you did, how Jones did, etc.  

The following two images are schools of Crappie near the bridge pilings at Lake Normandy Tennessee. Unfortunately, the pictures do not show the whole screen and depth but it will give you an idea of what is possible. Second picture is gobs of shad near surface and structure on the bottom.

[Team9nine]

I keep it simple and inexpensive and just run the FFS transducer on my TM. Easy to do because I’m set up as a backtroller. You quickly learn that setting up downwind and facing your target, whether cover, fish or structure, is the easiest and often best approach most times. Doing this in a river situation with steady current should be similar.

A lot of my friends tried separate pole mounts, but running the TM to hold boat position while trying to scan with a separate pole, cast and fish what you see, keeping it all on the screen, all at the same time, takes some degree of coordination, and can be downright frustrating. Many of the bass guys went back to mounting on the TM, but a lot of the crappie guys didn’t. They fish differently though, so it’s not quite the complex procedure…or just drop the coin on Spotlock TM and Target Lock.

[FryDog62]

I've had Livescope on the shaft of my trolling motor on my bass boat up North for 3 years. I just put Livescope on my kayak in Florida - on a separate pole (Fishing Specialities). I think there is a better than 50-50 chance I put a pole on my bass boat when I get back home. The only downside is that the mounting plate hangs over the side of the boat so it could get knocked off if you're not careful going up to a dock.  Other than that, the pole is the way to go because you can aim it any direction without moving the trolling motor or needing to take off of spot-lock. 

[TnRiver46]

1 hour ago, Team9nine said:

I keep it simple and inexpensive and just run the FFS transducer on my TM. 

Oh the irony!!!

[Team9nine]

11 minutes ago, TnRiver46 said:

Oh the irony!!!

If it helps, I bought the smallest FFS capable unit available, used, and have never upgraded a thing ? I figured if I was going to have an opinion on the topic, I needed to at least try it. 

[TnRiver46]

26 minutes ago, Team9nine said:

If it helps, I bought the smallest FFS capable unit available, used, and have never upgraded a thing ? I figured if I was going to have an opinion on the topic, I needed to at least try it. 

Well since you were catching 500 crappie a month before they invented it, I can see why you didn’t go top of the line hahaha

[immortl]

Ok, sit down before checking out the price, but for a separate pole mount for the FFS transducer that deploys with the trolling motor, but whose spinning/positioning is independent and controlled by remote control, check out the wtrforce sniper.  I think it's for the boat that has everything and absolutely needs one last thing to spend money on.  Here is the video of it in action.  Seems pretty cool and useful to me to me.  I figure a hand spun one will work just fine for my kayak, but I was also wondering if a quick release mount could be fabricated for the sniper, similar to the fishing specialties one.

[Woody B]

I got a separate pole and used it 2 times.  I went back to trolling motor mounted.   The pole was a pain to deploy and stow every time I stopped to fish.   TM mounted is a pain in the wind, but I'm getting better at boat positioning.   I don't watch the screen non stop anyway.   I look around to see what I think are bass, and start fishing.   I've learned, and I'm still processing a bunch about fish behavior.  I also have learned a BUNCH about how my lures act.   

 

If I'm "beating the bank"  I'll turn the transducer some on my TM so it's facing the direction I'm fishing.   That would work going up a river, but only for one side.  

 

I'm not one to sell stuff, but I'll probably sell my Summit pole and mount sometime.  Let me figure out how to ship, then I'll take some pictures and list it in the classifieds.  (this weekend at the soonest)

[Craig P]

I've been one way, the other and now the best of both worlds using a Tackle Shack Ultrex pole mount.  Before my current boat, I had a Deep V and I used a Fishing Specialties pole, it was great for spot locking and fishing crappie but lousy for bass for reasons others have mentioned, having to control something by hand or even foot while already controlling your TM.

 

When I switched to a Mod V Boat, as Bass Fishing has taken over my brain and wallet , the LVS32 went onto the Ultex.  I do enjoy the simplicity and control, leaving my hands to fish for Bass.

 

Fast forward, I do still like to crappie fish once in a while and while position is everything when spot locked, have a boat come by and wake you or wind blow you around and it gets frustrating and that led me to my current solution, the best of both worlds.  I did not want electric as those motors just cannot be as fast or even as finite accurate as manual control, manual is also cheaper so that led me to the pole I mentioned earlier.  You can lock it into place so that it behaves exactly as if installed on the TM but the big benefit IMO is being able to go back to a 0 degree mount.  Some may tell you they cannot see a difference between the stock 8 degree mount but you can and you'll find your targets are easier to lock on as well as see your lures easier.

[immortl]

Still expensive, but not quite as expensive as the electronic one I posted above, I think this is actually the 'sniper' mount I heard mentioned in a video, but my search for it took a while and I found that electronic one first.  Anyways, this one seems to allow you to rotate the handle (thinking like throttle on an outboard) to rotate the transducer.  You're not actually spinning the pole around manually with the offshoot handle.  Maybe could be a little more precise?

 

My use case is a kayak, a little different than a bass boat and I'm still putting it all together, no hands on experience yet, but it seems to me I'd want independent control of the transducer and trolling motor.  Again, all theory in my head, subject to change with actual real world experience, but as a starting point, I want independent control.  I'll go from there.

[HenryPF]

I have had all 3 - trolling motor mounted, manual stick mount (ram ball, etc.) and powered.

 

I spent $600 on a lsmount for my garmin force - paying $1000+ for a powered mount is stupid (but i would still pay that amount if lsmounts wasnt around)

 

If you run a scissor mount for your trolling motor (not like the terrova type) get a powered mount.

 

Here is why:

 

Manual - PITA to deploy, moving spots with big motor, redeploy, deploy, cables everywhere. Leaning over to move it sucked, dumb handle in the way of casting (sometimes)

 

Trolling Motor mount - yeah i use spot lock and it whipping around all the time makes a huge diff, i thought it sucked to see a fish, turn on spotlock, and then turn off spotlock to find where the thing was, then wind comes, moves the front of the boat to another direction, ugh.

 

Powered - super, super clean wiring. hands free with a pedal, able to scan around if i wanted to (i run two FFS, down and perspective), no constant fiddling with excess wires, deploying was a breeze, etc.

 

If you jump around a lot - (5 times a day is on the minimum) you will hate the manual ones.

 

I think it was just as worth it as much as boat trailer steps from like trickstep - pricey but it those two items are something i would NEVER do without again. Initial price sucks, but after TWO trips, well worth it.

 

 

[immortl]

15 hours ago, HenryPF said:

<snip>I spent $600 on a lsmount for my garmin force - paying $1000+ for a powered mount is stupid (but i would still pay that amount if lsmounts wasnt around)

</snip>

 

Oooh, I like that one.  I need to stop searching kayak specific solutions.  I like the foot pedal option here.  

 

 

 

[Woody B]

Some Bass around a submerged tree.  The second picture is one of them.