Electrical Plans - Validation, Questions, Suggestions?

[immortl]

I am in the process of planning the electrical layout and install for my new Hobie Pro Angler 14.  This is not a 'keep it simple' kayak.  Instead, this is a 'as close as I'm coming to a bass boat for a while' kayak, so it may seem like overkill.  I won't necessarily have all of this on the kayak all the time, but I like the option to have it when I want it.  As I've gotten older, I take these projects a bit slower and more methodical and know enough to know I don't know everything and try to research as much as I can.  I wanted to run my plans by the group to see if I'm missing anything or can do something better.  Additionally writing out my plans helps me think things through.  I've corrected 2 issues so far in typing this out.  I should draw all this out next.

 

At the currently planned end state, the kayak will have a Motorguide Xi3 36" saltwater pinpoint trolling motor mounted on the bow, Lowrance HDS Pro (10" or 12" depending on where I end up mounting it), Lowrance Active Target 2, Lowrance S3100, and likely at a minimum one of those pole 360 degree lights and maybe some additional lighting.  For the trolling motor there will be an Ionic 125AH LiFePo and for the electronics/lights another Ionic battery, thinking a 100AH one (based on 6.5a max draw of the HDS Pro/AT2/S3100, gives me 2 full days of fishing on single charge, likely more than that).

 

Trolling motor setup - the 125AH Ionic LiFePo, 6 AWG marine grade wiring, 60A fuse close to the positive terminal (finally found inline fuse holders with 6 AWG leads), then an Anderson type quick connect.  Negative lead from battery will go to same Anderson type quick connect, allowing me to remove battery box for easier charging indoors.  Probably should put a battery disconnect switch in there before the plug?  From that Anderson quick connect the positive line will run to a 60A circuit breaker and then to another Anderson quick connect up front where the trolling motor will connect.  Has anyone used that insanely expensive Minn Kota connector?  Worth it?  The ground will run to the same Anderson quick connect.  I'd like to put a relay in as well so I can rig up a fall overboard safety pin deal on power to the motor.  The accessory/activate lead for the relay will run to some version of the Yak Attack power switching box and between the two is where I'll insert the motor safety kill switch.  Yak Attack makes an auto reset breaker/relay but it's 50A and the trolling motor manual says 50A would work, but 60A would be better.  I haven't yet found a 60A breaker/relay combo.  Anyone know of one?  Based on wiring charts I believe the 6 AWG wire is large enough for the run of say 10ft or so from behind seat to front cockpit area.   Am I missing anything here?   Any suggestions for improvement?

 

Electronics - the likely 100AH Ionic LiFePo, 6 AWG marine grade wiring, 30Aish fuse close to the positive terminal, then Anderson type quick connect.  Negative lead from battery will go to the same Anderson type quick connect, again allowing me to remove the battery box for easier charging indoors.  From there the positive line will run to a Blue Sea Systems water resistant fuse block.  The negative line will run to a Blue Sea Systems water resistant bus bar.  Power for the Yak Attack power switching module will come off the fuse block with a 20A fuse.  Ground for the switching module will go to the negative bus bar.  If everything other than the trolling motor is running through the Yak Attack power switching module, the Blue Sea fuse block seems maybe unnecessary, don't currently have anything else to run through it. I could do an inline fuse and call it good there, and use just a non bussed fuse block for the power leads off the power switching module? The HDS Pro, Active Target 2, S3100, and lights will power through Yak Attack power switch module.  Now with regard to fusing those individual power leads off the Yak Attack switching module... Do I simply put inline fuses in place (seems like I can make them fairly water resistant) or work to satisfy the OCD in me and put in a non bussed fuse block? (more appealing organization wise, but likely not as water resistant, although I could go after it with lots of silicone after attaching the leads)

 

Once I get the batteries in hand, I need to figure out a box or two for them.  Ought I try to put them both into 1 box or a separate box for each battery?  I'm thinking 2 boxes so I can take only what I'll need that day.

 

Thanks! 

[GaryH]

Sure did some good research. As for the inline fuses, there’s plenty of waterproof ones out there. Good luck on the build and definitely post pics.

[Bankc]

The expensive Minn Kota connector is probably worth it.  Here's why.  Those SAE connectors, like what the Yak Power 5 Circuit Switching system uses are only designed to handle up to around 20 amps each.  Maybe less.  I have some on my 30 amp trolling motor and they want to get hot with prolonged use.  However, I splayed out the male connectors a bit to give me better contact, and now they operate fine without getting too warm.  That tells me I'm using these connectors right at their limits.  And an Xi3 pulls about 50 amps, which means you'll want a better connection.  On top of that, you will want this one to be watertight, if for no other reason than to reduce resistance so you don't lose power.  

[immortl]

54 minutes ago, Bankc said:

The expensive Minn Kota connector is probably worth it.  Here's why.  Those SAE connectors, like what the Yak Power 5 Circuit Switching system uses are only designed to handle up to around 20 amps each.  Maybe less.  I have some on my 30 amp trolling motor and they want to get hot with prolonged use.  However, I splayed out the male connectors a bit to give me better contact, and now they operate fine without getting too warm.  That tells me I'm using these connectors right at their limits.  And an Xi3 pulls about 50 amps, which means you'll want a better connection.  On top of that, you will want this one to be watertight, if for no other reason than to reduce resistance so you don't lose power.  

I understand the SAE connectors on the Yak Power switching systems are only  good up to 20A or a bit less each.   The overall switching system isn't supposed to exceed 20A across all it's outputs, and the wire leads in/out on the switching system are only 14 AWG.   The only interaction between the Yak Power switching system and the trolling motor circuit will be a single 'accessory' trigger for the relay activation on the trolling motor run.  In other words, one of the switching system outputs will be run to the trigger of the relay, allowing me to 'turn on' the relay with a button, no other trolling motor power will touch the Yak Power switching system.

 

For all the connections on the trolling motor run (so at the battery box in the back and then up front at the trolling motor itself), I was looking at the Anderson type connections that I seem to come across a lot.  I am curious if the Minn Kota would be a better choice up front where the trolling motor itself will be plugged into  - Anderson type or Minn Kota for this spot? 

[casts_by_fly]

You’ve got plenty of advice on connectors and fuses. For the batteries you will need to consider your needs and how hard you’re going to use it. A 125 won’t get you two full days without charging. Moderate days maybe, not full days. I run an 80ah and can fish a solid 10 hour day in the autopilot leaving 10-15% left. That is mostly a run to my starting spot, fish around the lake, maybe make 2 jumps to other spots (15-20 minute runs), a little spot lock here and there. I moderate the runs sometimes and drop a couple settings down to save battery.  This is fishing the bigger lakes. On the smaller lakes where I don’t have to make a run I can fish for 8 hours and only use 10 ah, but that’s max 1 mph and mostly not even that.   So consider the lakes you’re going to be on. For me, larger is anything over 600 acres or so (600 acres and long or 1200 and fingers).  A 160 ah is the same footprint to build around and would get you two full days if that’s what you really need. 
 

a 100 ah for the electronics is a lot. That’s 50 ah a day. I’m not sure if you’re pulling 5 amps for 10 straight hours.  Again, consider how much you actually need. I run a 30 for 2 plus days but I’m only using a helix 7 and no live scope. 

[immortl]

3 hours ago, casts_by_fly said:

<snip> A 125 won’t get you two full days without charging. Moderate days maybe, not full days.</snip>

That's a good point.  To keep with Ionic, 125 is as high as they go before the physically larger 200AH batteries.  Amped Outdoors does have a 160AH battery though.  Anyone have any experience with them?

 

I agree the 100AH for the electronics may be a bit of overkill.  I can probably drop that a bit as I was calculating max amp draw for each device.

 

And really, no, I don't need 2 full days.  I'm a recreational fisher, out to have fun, I just like my electronic gadgets.  Additionally, most of my immediate fishing will be on smaller bodies of water.  Although for sure if we have to go back down to Durham NC yet again, we're staying on the shore of Jordan Lake again and I'll figure out a way to bring both the kayak and the fifth wheel.  I don't foresee any immediate scenarios where I wouldn't be able to recharge overnight and I even have assorted inverter generators I could use if necessary to charge things, one of which is pretty portable.

[casts_by_fly]

9 hours ago, immortl said:

That's a good point.  To keep with Ionic, 125 is as high as they go before the physically larger 200AH batteries.  Amped Outdoors does have a 160AH battery though.  Anyone have any experience with them?

 

I agree the 100AH for the electronics may be a bit of overkill.  I can probably drop that a bit as I was calculating max amp draw for each device.

 

And really, no, I don't need 2 full days.  I'm a recreational fisher, out to have fun, I just like my electronic gadgets.  Additionally, most of my immediate fishing will be on smaller bodies of water.  Although for sure if we have to go back down to Durham NC yet again, we're staying on the shore of Jordan Lake again and I'll figure out a way to bring both the kayak and the fifth wheel.  I don't foresee any immediate scenarios where I wouldn't be able to recharge overnight and I even have assorted inverter generators I could use if necessary to charge things, one of which is pretty portable.

 

I run an 80 AH and 30 AH amped and have used both for the past 2 years.

 

if you have the ability to charge overnight then the best bet is to get a pair of chargers- one 10 amp and one 5 amp.  the 10 amp will charge a motor battery overnight, the 5 will charge the accessories overnight.  I only have a single charger (5 amp) so it is a little lower in power to not kill the accessories battery.  It takes a little longer to charge, but I can usually charge my 80 AH overnight.  I have the bigger accessory battery so that if I don't get a chance to swap the charger over I can still fish a second day on the same battery.  I just need to plug in the motor battery when I get home.  A second charger at 10 amps would solve that issue, I just don't feel like spending another $50 on one.

 

If you're charging nightly and not running it hard, you can save $500-800 or so on batteries by not going to the huge ones.  A 100 AH and a 30 AH should be pretty close to fitting your needs.  I know livescope is power hungry so double check on it.

 

 

[casts_by_fly]

Also, two other thoughts.

 

I recommend getting a meter for your main battery.  With lithium, it runs at full charge and power- until it doesn't.  Its an abrupt shutoff.  With a meter you will see how much charge you have at any point.  They are about $40 or so for a basic one (which I use) or you can get bluetooth enabled if you like.

 

For the electronics battery, you could also consider the 32 ah 14.8V version.  Its a little more money than the 30 a 12.8v, but you're getting 23% more capacity and at a higher voltage which I have read (but can't confirm) is a benefit for livescope units.  

[flyfisher]

34 minutes ago, casts_by_fly said:

Also, two other thoughts.

 

I recommend getting a meter for your main battery.  With lithium, it runs at full charge and power- until it doesn't.  Its an abrupt shutoff.  With a meter you will see how much charge you have at any point.  They are about $40 or so for a basic one (which I use) or you can get bluetooth enabled if you like.

 

For the electronics battery, you could also consider the 32 ah 14.8V version.  Its a little more money than the 30 a 12.8v, but you're getting 23% more capacity and at a higher voltage which I have read (but can't confirm) is a benefit for livescope units.  

The ionic batteries have a built in bluetooth monitor and I can say after two years of use it is pretty accurate.  

 

I also agree that unless you are drawing serious amps all day a 100ah battery is way overkill for lights and electronics.  My dad has a  Helix7 on his old town autopilot and a 30ah is more than he ever needs for a day.  

As far as the trolling motor goes, you just have to do the calculations and go from there but it really depends on your use each day as a slight drop in throttle provides much longer run time but at the same time I know you won't be wining any races with that motor on that kayak either.

[immortl]

1 hour ago, casts_by_fly said:

 

I run an 80 AH and 30 AH amped and have used both for the past 2 years.

 

if you have the ability to charge overnight then the best bet is to get a pair of chargers- one 10 amp and one 5 amp.  the 10 amp will charge a motor battery overnight </snip>

 

 

Yes, I'll pick up 2 chargers.  I spoke with a guy at Ionic and asked about the 10A vs 20A chargers, having the idea in my head that slower charging was 'easier' on the batteries.  He didn't seem to think it mattered much though and said if you have enough time, 10A, if you want them to charge faster, do the 20A, it won't hurt anything.

 

1 hour ago, casts_by_fly said:

Also, two other thoughts.

 

I recommend getting a meter for your main battery.  With lithium, it runs at full charge and power- until it doesn't.  Its an abrupt shutoff.  With a meter you will see how much charge you have at any point.  They are about $40 or so for a basic one (which I use) or you can get bluetooth enabled if you like.

 

For the electronics battery, you could also consider the 32 ah 14.8V version.  Its a little more money than the 30 a 12.8v, but you're getting 23% more capacity and at a higher voltage which I have read (but can't confirm) is a benefit for livescope units.  

And this is why I posted this, I forgot about the meter.  The youtube video I was using as reference for the physical rigging of lowering and raising the trolling motor called out the meter and I can definitely see it's usefulness for a rough idea of how many amp hours have been consumed.  I'll add that in too. 

 

Unrelated to electric stuff - I always wondered how they rigged up string/cord in the hull to pull down on the step release for the motor and this video finally showed it.  I thought it was quite ingenious to run the spectra cord through stiff water line tubing (like for an ice maker) to make the equivalent of a bicycle brake cable. 

 

Can you elaborate or have links specifically to 12.8v and 14.8v batteries?  The ones I've looked at from Ionic, Battleborn, Amped, Dakota Digital etc... are all advertised as 12v but a full charge is up around 14.6 volts based on the spec sheets.  I think I'm looking at the higher voltage you're talking about, but perhaps there is something else out there I haven't stumbled across yet?

 

53 minutes ago, flyfisher said:

The ionic batteries have a built in bluetooth monitor and I can say after two years of use it is pretty accurate.  

 

I also agree that unless you are drawing serious amps all day a 100ah battery is way overkill for lights and electronics.  My dad has a  Helix7 on his old town autopilot and a 30ah is more than he ever needs for a day.  

As far as the trolling motor goes, you just have to do the calculations and go from there but it really depends on your use each day as a slight drop in throttle provides much longer run time but at the same time I know you won't be wining any races with that motor on that kayak either.

 

I have picked up from my research that running the trolling motors under max results in a large power savings and only a small reduction in speed.  Were I trying to race somewhere, I'd look into those higher thrust Torqueedo or Nocqua motors off the stern.  This is a big heavy boat, I understand I'm not going anywhere at warp speed.

 

I came up with 6.5A max draw going through the manuals for the current versions of the HDS Live, AT, and S3100.  Sort of like I used to do for cooling and power calculations when building a datacenter once, I calculated with the unlikely max draw and tossed in a little extra headroom.  A 60AH batter would likely more than cover a solid long day of fishing with everything running full blast the entire time.  I then rounded up to 100 and figured I'd likely get 2+ days out of it.  Again though, I don't really need 2 days, so perhaps a 60AH or so for some cost and weight savings.

[immortl]

I am nixing the fuse block idea.  I'd end up with 1 bussed block (common power input routed internally to all circuits) that really would only power the Yak Power switching module and then another 'non bussed' block (individual power input for each fuse) for the power outputs from the switching module.  They'd take up valuable space on the mounting board and the non bussed blocks that I could find would not be all that water resistant.  I'm going to go with the water proof/resistant inline fuse holders.  Spent time yesterday seeking out inline fuse holders with appropriate gauge wire made of tinned copper and finally found them all.  6 AWG for leads off the batteries, and 14 AWG for the leads off the switching module.

[casts_by_fly]

16 minutes ago, immortl said:

Can you elaborate or have links specifically to 12.8v and 14.8v batteries?  The ones I've looked at from Ionic, Battleborn, Amped, Dakota Digital etc... are all advertised as 12v but a full charge is up around 14.6 volts based on the spec sheets.  I think I'm looking at the higher voltage you're talking about, but perhaps there is something else out there I haven't stumbled across yet?

 

This is the 14.8V battery I was referencing.  Its NMC, not LiFePo, so its a different battery chemistry.  Working voltage is 12-16.8 rather than 12.8 +/- 2.

https://ampedoutdoors.com/collections/lifepo4-battery/products/30ah-lithium-battery-14-8v-nmc-with-charger

[immortl]

4 hours ago, casts_by_fly said:

 

This is the 14.8V battery I was referencing.  Its NMC, not LiFePo, so its a different battery chemistry.  Working voltage is 12-16.8 rather than 12.8 +/- 2.

https://ampedoutdoors.com/collections/lifepo4-battery/products/30ah-lithium-battery-14-8v-nmc-with-charger

Thanks, that was useful.  A whole other deal to research now.

 

I started reading installation manuals for the current version Lowrance gear.  Looks like some of it is turned on via accessory wires separate from power wire.  Fuse blocks may be part of the plan again...  Probably should have started with reading those first.  I have probably ordered up twice as much stuff as I'll need and am going to have a large return for Amazon.