Test Your Braid!

[stratos4me]

I recently tested the breaking strength of several different unused braids I have on hand. All were purchased at Tacklewarehouse. They included original pp, pp ssv2, and vicious no-fade. Out of 10 lines, the only one to break at or over rated test was pp ssv2 15lb. Every other line broke at approximately 60% of stated test and only the Viscious no fade broke at a knot. Overall the stated breaking strength ranged from 15lb-65lb. Since my results were so unexpected I'm going to share my method here and hopefully someone can tell me what I'm doing wrong.

 

1. Tie a surgeon's loop in each end of a 2-3' section

 

2. Attach one loop to boat cleat and one end to 50 lb spring scale hook calibrated at 8 lbs.

 

3. Pull as slowly and gently as possible until the line snaps.

 

I know this isn't up to scientific standards, but for lines to miss the mark by 40% something ain't right. Any ideas??

[A-Jay]

Any Ideas ?

Yes ~

These types of 'line tests' seem a very long way from simulating actual fishing conditions any line would be used in.  So unless one routinely fishes or better yet hand lines with a 2-3 foot section of line, we may be missing the mark a bit.  Especially when considering the static & dynamic forces of both the boat and fish on & in a liquid medium. 

Perhaps something closer to a real world test (on land anyway) to see how the line performs when it's fished would be to spool whatever is being tested on to the rig it's generally used on.

Secure it to something solid along with the scale (if that's what you're looking to learn).

Back away the length of an average cast.

Lock down the drag.

With a bend in the rod, slowly back away.

This might be closer to what 'breaking off' might look like.

I would expect 50-65 lb braid might break a few rods before it parts.

Keep that in mind. 

A-Jay

[Deleted account]

Sounds like an issue with the methodology, most braids over test by quite a bit. If I had to guess, I would say the loops had something to do with it, but without seeing it, could be a bunch of things.

[MN Fisher]

17 minutes ago, A-Jay said:

With a bend in the rod, slowly back away.

This might be closer to what 'breaking off' might look like.

I would expect 50-65 lb braid might break a few rods before it parts.

Heck - bend that rod at 90-degrees and even 20# braid would probably break the rod.

[MickD]

One does not have to bend a rod that far to test the line.  So rod failures, if one uses his head, is unlikely.  But I submit one doesn't even have to have a rod in the system.  There is nothing unrepresentative about testing without a rod.  It's physics, not magic. 

By the way, I recently landed a 40-50 pound black tipped shark on 21 pound braid (a brand that is not a sponsor, but contends its pound tests are accurate, probably 3 year old line-great stuff) with 14.6 pound leader of the same manufacurer.  Very high, constant, pressure on the fish to handle it.  On a rod rated for about 10-16 if I remember right.  

[Deleted account]

28 minutes ago, MickD said:

By the way, I recently landed a 40-50 pound black tipped shark on 21 pound braid (a brand that is not a sponsor, but contends its pound tests are accurate, probably 3 year old line-great stuff) with 14.6 pound leader of the same manufacurer.  Very high, constant, pressure on the fish to handle it.  On a rod rated for about 10-16 if I remember right.  

 

LOL.

[Johnbt]

"most braids over test by quite a bit."

 

The last time I tested a half dozen brands of braid they broke at 50% more to 110% more than the rating. That was 5 or 10 years ago so take it for what it's worth. 

[garroyo130]

Might be the angle at which youre pulling the spring scale? Who knows but try tying it to a gallon of water and picking that up with the line ... if the line doesn't break then something wasn't right with the testing method

[Team9nine]

12 hours ago, stratos4me said:

Since my results were so unexpected I'm going to share my method here and hopefully someone can tell me what I'm doing wrong.

 

1. Tie a surgeon's loop in each end of a 2-3' section

Step 1 is where you went wrong, IMO. Don’t put a knot in the equation, let alone 2 knots. In a normal lab line testing situation, you’d either have the line clamped on both ends, or wrapped around a wide dowel or similar to the point it won’t slip (see setup in video).

 

As mentioned previously (Johnbt), straight line full braid strength is significantly higher than rated (labeled) strength. This is because despite all the “dogging” fluoro gets for poor knot strength, braid is significantly worse. Therefore, most manufacturers label it at around 40-60% of actual breaking strength, since every angler uses it with a knot of some type in the equation (again, see video below).

 

 

[Susky River Rat]

I had a down east salty rod holder break trolling at mph. I was using 80lb suffix 832 line dug into the spool on a snag. My fault for not spooling it correctly. I would believe that put more than 80lbs of tension on that line before breaking the holder. 

[WRB]

The  OP shared his test method and since there isn’t a established test procedure or methods it’s goos enough for comparative data.

The rate of pulling force can be controlled using test equipment but the OP used what was available.

I suggest using at least 5 test samples of each line. The pull rate should try to duplicate fishing conditions; 2” per second.

Braid isn’y Hygroscopic so wet vs dry isn’t a major factor.

Fins Braid list both line and knot strength, good reference data.

Tom

PS, missed Team9 reply and agree.

[stratos4me]

2 hours ago, garroyo130 said:

Might be the angle at which youre pulling the spring scale? Who knows but try tying it to a gallon of water and picking that up with the line ... if the line doesn't break then something wasn't right with the testing method

A gallon of water is what I used for calibration.

2 hours ago, Team9nine said:

Step 1 is where you went wrong, IMO. Don’t put a knot in the equation, let alone 2 knots. In a normal lab line testing situation, you’d either have the line clamped on both ends, or wrapped around a wide dowel or similar to the point it won’t slip (see setup in video).

 

As mentioned previously (Johnbt), straight line full braid strength is significantly higher than rated (labeled) strength. This is because despite all the “dogging” fluoro gets for poor knot strength, braid is significantly worse. Therefore, most manufacturers label it at around 40-60% of actual breaking strength, since every angler uses it with a knot of some type in the equation (again, see video below).

 

 

I'll give that a shot. I don't think it's knot related because only the Viscious broke at a knot. I expected that after watching some testing on YouTube.

2 hours ago, WRB said:

The  OP shared his test method and since there isn’t a established test procedure or methods it’s goos enough for comparative data.

The rate of pulling force can be controlled using test equipment but the OP used what was available.

I suggest using at least 5 test samples of each line. The pull rate should try to duplicate fishing conditions; 2” per second.

Braid isn’y Hygroscopic so wet vs dry isn’t a major factor.

Fins Braid list both line and knot strength, good reference data.

Tom

PS, missed Team9 reply and agree.

I tested every sample multiple times with very similiar results.

[Team9nine]

57 minutes ago, stratos4me said:

I'll give that a shot. I don't think it's knot related because only the Viscious broke at a knot. I expected that after watching some testing on YouTube.

Try it. No reputable lab would test tensile strength using knotted line unless they were specially testing knot strength. It’s certainly not in ASTM protocols.

 

So I popped into the garage and tested 4 different spools of braided line I had on the shelf with a certified and calibrated spring scale - 3 spools of PP and I spool of Sufix 832, all tested without knots. None of the 4 lines broke, even after exceeding labeled strength by 20% (10 lb. line), 100% (6 lb. line) and 140% (5 lb. line) respectively (beyond that exceeded scale capacity). Based on that, I’d say either your testing setup or protocol is suspect, or you have some serious line storage issues.

[stratos4me]

6 hours ago, Team9nine said:

Try it. No reputable lab would test tensile strength using knotted line unless they were specially testing knot strength. It’s certainly not in ASTM protocols.

 

So I popped into the garage and tested 4 different spools of braided line I had on the shelf with a certified and calibrated spring scale - 3 spools of PP and I spool of Sufix 832, all tested without knots. None of the 4 lines broke, even after exceeding labeled strength by 20% (10 lb. line), 100% (6 lb. line) and 140% (5 lb. line) respectively (beyond that exceeded scale capacity). Based on that, I’d say either your testing setup or protocol is suspect, or you have some serious line storage issues.

I tried without knots and the results were still subpar but much closer to stated breaking weight than I had been seeing. It's strange that the knots somehow effected breaking strength in the main line. I have had no issues with lines of 15lb and under. In fact I see greater shortfall as lines get heavier. As it stands, I'm satisfied enough to move on. Thanks for the good ideas.

[Derek1]

Nothing scientific here but. I’ve straightened out a lot of jig hooks and pulled up a lot of crap from the bottom with 30 pound power pro. With 50 pound sometimes branches come with it. I’d be shocked to find out if I’m not pulling at least those weights. If I’ve re tied properly. The 50 almost never breaks. The 30 sometimes, but not very often. 

[dodgeguy]

The Viscious knot most likely broke because no fade braid is super smooth and slippery. Try a different knot and crazy glue it.i suggest a Palomar with crazy glue.

[stratos4me]

8 hours ago, Derek1 said:

Nothing scientific here but. I’ve straightened out a lot of jig hooks and pulled up a lot of crap from the bottom with 30 pound power pro. With 50 pound sometimes branches come with it. I’d be shocked to find out if I’m not pulling at least those weights. If I’ve re tied properly. The 50 almost never breaks. The 30 sometimes, but not very often. 

I've fished pp since it was invented and that was also my experience until the last couple years.

[stratos4me]

7 hours ago, dodgeguy said:

The Viscious knot most likely broke because no fade braid is super smooth and slippery. Try a different knot and crazy glue it.i suggest a Palomar with crazy glue.

Any line that requires special care like glue is not for me. Fishing already has so many variables that can lead to failure on big fish. Why add another? Especially on a lake like my home lake that holds huge floridas it's just asking for trouble.

[WRB]

I used Dacron braid in the 50’s long before “super braid” spectra came out in the 80’s. The knot used back in the day is the braid knot a double line clinch knot that doesn’t slip and as strong as the line. The diameter of the hook being used also affects knot strength.

You test line knot strength with the same knot you fish with and skilled tying.

Tom

[dodgeguy]

14 minutes ago, stratos4me said:

Any line that requires special care like glue is not for me. Fishing already has so many variables that can lead to failure on big fish. Why add another? Especially on a lake like my home lake that holds huge floridas it's just asking for trouble.

I've glued braid knots for years. You never use glue to help hold a bait in place in a jig head ? 

[FishTank]

I use the San Diego jam knot for pretty much everything,  including braid.  No issues with it so far.  It seems to work on any diameter and make of braid. 

 

I also use to glue my knots but stopped. It would always wear off after a few casts and glue wouldn't set on wet line. If the line was dry when glued, the glue would crack when you hooked into something. 

[stratos4me]

30 minutes ago, dodgeguy said:

I've glued braid knots for years. You never use glue to help hold a bait in place in a jig head ? 

Sure, I occasionally use a drop of superglue on jig head keepers. That's completely different from using glue to make a knot hold that otherwise would fail. If a trailer slips down it's an inconvenience. If a knot breaks you could dump a world record. Another reason I don't use glue on leader to braid knots specifically is that I reel the knot into the spool and glued knots tend to stick and handle poorly when used that way.

18 minutes ago, FishTank said:

I use the San Diego jam knot for pretty much everything,  including braid.  No issues with it so far.  It seems to work on any diameter and make of braid. 

 

I also use to glue my knots but stopped. It would always wear off after a few casts and glue wouldn't set on wet line. If the line was dry when glued, the glue would crack when you hooked into something. 

I'm with you on the San Diego Knot. I learned it long ago fishing tuna out of San Diego, but recently I realized that it's great for all line types. It works good for tying to the spool too.

[stratos4me]

24 minutes ago, WRB said:

I used Dacron braid in the 50’s long before “super braid” spectra came out in the 80’s. The knot used back in the day is the braid knot a double line clinch knot that doesn’t slip and as strong as the line. The diameter of the hook being used also affects knot strength.

You test line knot strength with the same knot you fish with and skilled tying.

Tom

Haha! I remember using that stuff on west coast rockcod trips in the 80's. When modern braid came in with small reels and light rods that 300' cod fishing actually became fun. Those old dacron setups were just plain hard work.

[T-Billy]

This is how I like to test my braid. Regular ol single palomar works just fine for me.

 

[stratos4me]

4 minutes ago, T-Billy said:

This is how I like to test my braid. Regular ol single palomar works just fine for me.

 

Great! When can I come see you for my test??